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Just got my new Mini Torii :D (Read 819 times)
TubeNut
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Bliss is..playing
Lp's through my Mini
Torii :D

Posts: 16
Just got my new Mini Torii :D
05/30/13 at 23:01:28
 

Just got my Mini delivered on Tuesday, and all I can say are good things about this whole experience! Everything was just PERFECT! I felt like a kid again opening the "BIG BOX"under the christmas tree! This amp is just as perfect inside as it is outside....very professional assembly and component layout, it's a work of art!! Can you guys tell that I like this amp?? It sounds excellent right out of the box, so I'm going to follow the advice of one of our fellow members who suggested that we just keep it stock and let it burn in for awhile before doing any tube rolling...tempting as it may be Tongue
I'm fairly new to tube amps, but I enjoy learning.....and there's alot for me to learn. I want to thank all of you for your contributions. I've read ALOT of threads here, and have. found alot of valuable information and suggestions from all of you.
I love this hobby!!! L Roll Eyes
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'65 Fisher FM-100C Tuner-Linn Sondek LP12 TT w/Origin Live Silver Tonearm & Ortofon X5-MC Cartridge-Decware Mini Torii II-Anti-Cable IC's & Speaker cables-VH Audio Flavor #2 Power Cord-1975 Altec-Lansing Model 874A Segovia speakers-1974 Marantz Imperial 6G speaker
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Fireblade
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Knowledge comes, but
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Posts: 702
Re: Just got my new Mini Torii :D
Reply #1 - 05/31/13 at 02:43:34
 
Congrats! Just leave it burn in enough. You'll enjoy it more every day. Mine is one year old now and it sounds better than ever.

Tube rolling is important, but I did not do it until it had about 6 months into its burning in process. I think you can do the rolling earlier but with different results. Not quite the same as with a well burned in unit, as your tube set choices would then be more stable and rich.

Enjoy it.

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« Last Edit: 05/31/13 at 02:45:25 by Fireblade »  

Laptop-Foobar2K-ASIO Direct//WD 2.0Tb HDD//Audio Gd USB cable//Audio Gd NFB 3 (2014) DAC//Decware Silver Ref IC's//Decware Mini Torii SE//Kimber Kable spkr cbls//Decware DM945's//Velodyne DLS 3500//BJC SUB Cbls//Tripp Lite 500 Isolation Trnsf.//Jellyfish Pwr Cord
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will
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Re: Just got my new Mini Torii :D
Reply #2 - 05/31/13 at 18:17:27
 
Tubenut. Great feeling the excitement you are having! Thanks for the buzz!

Burn in is a funny thing. It depends so much on the system/room we bring new stuff into, on how "raw" the new stuff is, and how much we can adjust that system to compensate for the pre burn in deficiencies. Sounds like your amp is snuggling into your system/room pretty well!

As far as your amp burnin, Decware is simple and elegant design giving us a good start. If it is stock (not V-caps) I think most of the amp parts and tubes will probably be through the primary part of coming into their sound within 50-100 hours. I have had some EL34s take longer, and some caps and wires are painfully slow, but I am guessing you will be moving more into "refinement" by roughly 100 hours. Then our playing habits are pretty varied, but for mine, 100 hours has typically been several weeks.

To speed things along, I really like using the Esoteric/Teak breakin CD and the Sheffield Drum Tracks...doing some of the work while I am away.

Meanwhile, adjusting/adapting an established system/room toward synergy with the new amp can make some of that burnin fly by and finally be a real game changer since this gear has sooooo much potential toward a transporting musical experience.

For me, this part is ongoing, each adjustment refining the sound and also my ability to hear. This in turn can bring the system/room to a new place to begin from, the previous refinements being enhanced by the latest. Progressive creative exploration is a lot of  fun to me...move the speakers a little here or there....room treatments.....cables or cable positions....vibration control tools and placement....tubes....caps....whatever. Lots of fun areas to explore in my attempts to make the home music experience as real as possible.

But obviously how this all proceeds is really personal. I was beginning to explore tubes within weeks of my first Decware amp and have never stopped...Whereas, some folks never change out the stock tubes. Lots of potential for deeper levels of refinement if that makes us happy, but our Decware gear already reflects years of refinement that Steve and Bob and company have already done for us, and this is a lot! Seems to me we each find our own approach to this exploration and that is just perfect....

At this level, it is amazing to me....the experience of listening to music can be so natural that we can literally get better sound than most venues that we can hear music at. And it is music! With good tube implementation, and in a well developed system/room, the music can reach our ears similarly as sound reaches our ears in nature, so our body/mind response can be deep and sort of breath taking. Furthering the fun, if we are suited to playing around with it, developing a system/room to tastes, an already amazing experience can be enhanced toward deeper levels of what excites us personally.....and soooo transporting! Lucky us!
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« Last Edit: 05/31/13 at 18:22:01 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, modded Oppo 83, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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TubeNut
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Bliss is..playing
Lp's through my Mini
Torii :D

Posts: 16
Re: Just got my new Mini Torii :D
Reply #3 - 05/31/13 at 19:25:56
 

Thanks, Fireblade & Will for sharing your tube rolling and burning in comments. The first time I read about burning in cables I laughed out loud like "yeah right"...until I continued reading more and more about the merits and rewards of it all. So I tried it with my cartridge leads/phono IC's. Hooked them up to my CD player as the source and plugged the IC's into my amp and played the CD looped for about 3 days nonstop. It made a lot of sense to me that the extremely low voltages transmitted from the moving coil cartridge weren't high enough to burn in those cables and leads, so that was enough to get my interest. Well, it surely DID make a HUGE difference!! I quite frankly was stymied and very pleasantly surprised! I'm a believer now to say the least. Like you said, Will, burn in is indeed a funny thing.
Now, about my new Mini Torii...What a dream machine this thing is!!
I was listening to a Hazen modified Zkit1 mounted on a piece of wood previously(ok...I can hear you guys laughing from here) This little amp REALLY sounded good to me! I had the stock tubes in it..6n1p and the 6n15n-EB Russian made which were very impressive. Someday when I'm not busy listening to LP's I may stuff all of it together in a nice enclosure and use it as a front left & right for my home theatre system or something. Back to the Mini...I've been following threads here about the MT and it has all been very interesting reading. The tube rolling options are staggering, and for that reason alone I think I'll follow Fireblade's recommendation to just let the tubes burn in for awhile.
I have had a few other hobbies prior to my audio experience, one of which was growing roses. Roses are a funny thing, too! They're sensitive to their environment and the planting stage is critical to success, especially if you're exhibiting and competing at rose shows like I was. For example, you have a rosebush that's growing perfect, very hardy, produces show winning stems, and is your pride and joy. Let's say that I decide to move it to a "better" location in my rosebed so it gets more sun or something...uh oh..what's wrong here? It's not doing well at all now, grows slow, blooms look like shit, it's now a dog! A rose will thrive in it's perfect "microclimate"...and if you've got a rose that's doing very exceptional in it's spot, don't move it!! Also, it takes 3 years for the root system to get well established. So roses need to be "burned in" just like cables, tubes, capacitors, etc. If it isn't broke, don't fix it.
So even though at first I laughed at the whole burning in process, my past experience has helped to keep me open to suggestion on anything.
I've had the Mini running nonstop since Tuesday, and I just can't get enough of it!! I live in an apartment, so my "microclimate" isn't perfect. I suppose that sometime I may get into diffusers and other things to make my living room better for sound, but for now I'm happy.
I feel good that you guys responded , and feel like I broke the ice here in the group. I've been mostly reading and looking around up to now. Now that I have the MT, I've got bragging rights, right?? Wink
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« Last Edit: 05/31/13 at 19:32:14 by TubeNut »  

'65 Fisher FM-100C Tuner-Linn Sondek LP12 TT w/Origin Live Silver Tonearm & Ortofon X5-MC Cartridge-Decware Mini Torii II-Anti-Cable IC's & Speaker cables-VH Audio Flavor #2 Power Cord-1975 Altec-Lansing Model 874A Segovia speakers-1974 Marantz Imperial 6G speaker
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Fireblade
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Knowledge comes, but
wisdom lingers.
A.L.Tennyson

Posts: 702
Re: Just got my new Mini Torii :D
Reply #4 - 05/31/13 at 20:40:34
 
Interesting anecdote about growing roses.

My current (new) dedicated listening room, has enhanced the dynamics and power/volume of the Mini, as the lesser dimensions of the room and the enclosure containment effect of the area depart significantly from the original living room setting.

Right now, the room is too bright and tends to become boomy on certain passages, as there is definitively a multiple reflection-based detrimental sound effect stemming from my still bare walls.

In spite of this, which ought to be resolved, at least partially, when my new full wall curtains (drapes) are installed (with plenty of cloth material to provide abundant breaking up angles through high density bending), the little guy and my DM945's sound more accurate and detailed than in their previous physical setting. There's more symmetry and this is reflected in the sound propagation.

I confess I don't know much about the subject and I'm not inclined to get into the intricacies of room conditioning, but I can hear the differences and apply some common sense to tackle maybe the bulk of the conditioning issues.  But even if I did not do anything, I can still enjoy my system very much.

So, hang in there and experiment, but above all, enjoy the music.
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« Last Edit: 05/31/13 at 20:44:26 by Fireblade »  

Laptop-Foobar2K-ASIO Direct//WD 2.0Tb HDD//Audio Gd USB cable//Audio Gd NFB 3 (2014) DAC//Decware Silver Ref IC's//Decware Mini Torii SE//Kimber Kable spkr cbls//Decware DM945's//Velodyne DLS 3500//BJC SUB Cbls//Tripp Lite 500 Isolation Trnsf.//Jellyfish Pwr Cord
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will
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Posts: 1179
Re: Just got my new Mini Torii :D
Reply #5 - 05/31/13 at 23:21:26
 
No laughing here on the little Zen. Helps explain how the Mini fit so well into your system/room. And your cable experience sounds familiar. I hear everything in my setup...at least so far, and will every so often even roll ICs or power cables for a more synergistic sound as the system develops. I can even hear different foot locations on the Torii MkIII and it is a valid and real sound adjustment tool...subtle, but there!

And if the sound stage in your room is really good and the sound is complete without notable hot or empty places...this is a great thing.

In my room the heard issues, particularly low bass, had to be resolved once I brought the Torii MkIII into the place. Later, some of the measured issue areas were not a problem for me (sounded great really, and still better than any system I had heard) but once noticed and adjusted, all is even better.

What is most interesting in these little transitions from great to greater, all aspects of the feel and presentation are improved. Everything I do makes it as, or more revealing than before (cable rolling, power treatments, tube rolling, foot placement, etc), but at the same time, the system/room is more tolerant...making changes still notable, but less important in terms of "fixing" things. So tube rolling is still a lot of fun, but that just right set has different parameters since it is less determined by room wildcards, and more for the subtle beauty of different sets. Not that this has not always been the case, or that I have not always had really amazing sound, but things have changed with more refinement.

This is not to say I have a perfect room either. I am sure good test gear would show stuff....but man does it sound great!!!!!

As to tube burn in, the longest for me were some JJ6CA7s and they took about 120 to sound really good and without clear issues, and I think I recall perhaps up to 250 hours to get to where I was no longer hearing subtle changes. Lots of the other tubes can come out in 50-100 and many are just not that notably green new...for me the power tubes and some inputs are the hardest. Man, do I love to roll tubes though....shifting from one great sound to another reveals a little different take on the music, a different picture into it, and this change up is really helpful for my enjoyment.

Finally, especially with really nice gear like we have, I agree at least tentatively to the idea...if it ain't broke, don't fix it, but.....
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« Last Edit: 06/01/13 at 16:46:10 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, modded Oppo 83, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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