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I have more Headroom with my SE84CS vs my CKC? (Read 3625 times)
stone_of_tone
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I have more Headroom with my SE84CS vs my CKC?
05/21/13 at 14:01:29
 
I love the CKC.  However, this past week, after 6 months of burn in and enjoyment of the Super Zen CKC, I put my SE84CS back in the System with all else being equal. What I found was, I have more Headroom (volume/loudness/dynamics), when I want it, with my CS over my CKC?

I wonder if it is just the inherent voicing of the CKC with the Jupiter Caps and CCE mod and the rest of the Topology?  Thoughts?  -Stone
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DBC
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Re: I have more Headroom with my SE84CS vs my CKC?
Reply #1 - 05/22/13 at 20:13:19
 
That's interesting, My experience has been just the opposite. My 13 year old SE84CS has 4 Ohm output transformers. My 5 month old CKC was ordered with 8 Ohm output transformers. The CKC plays louder than the CS on my 8 Ohm Klipsch RF-7's.

Are the output transformers on both of your Decware amps 4 Ohm? Are your speakers 8 Ohm or other?

Could the Rectifier in the CKC be weak?
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stone_of_tone
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Re: I have more Headroom with my SE84CS vs my CKC?
Reply #2 - 05/23/13 at 16:08:32
 
Thanks DBC, I'm going to try the Rectifier first and get back to you on this.  -S
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stone_of_tone
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Re: I have more Headroom with my SE84CS vs my CKC?
Reply #3 - 05/31/13 at 16:46:09
 
Yup, good call DBC... . It was the Rectifier for the most part. I put dates on these too and forgot how old that bugger was.  

I say for the most part because I also have to get off my butt and pop the hood off and bump up the output voltage (in my AA 3.0 DAC/remote control volume)....that will serve this incredible CKC Amp well.

Cheers, Stone of Tone
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stone_of_tone
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Re: I have more Headroom with my SE84CS vs my CKC?
Reply #4 - 05/31/13 at 17:28:33
 
HOLD THE PRESSES!

Turns out I have a 4 ohm tranny!  Now, granted I had a shot Rectifier tube.... .  However, no wonder my gain is down on the CKC vs. my SE84CS! It should be just as you described in your post DBC.

I only glanced at the serial #010 and my name when I first got it and the 4 ohm did not catch my eye until now!  Crap!

I was wondering why my Klipsch RF-7 II Speakers were clipping!
I know I did not ask for 4 ohm when I ordered it online....well, I guess they are human at Decware.....I will call and ship it back...for the tranny swap out.  -S

PS=my Polk LS 90's are 8ohm, the RF-7 II's of course are, my Polk SDA 1's are 8ohm & SE84CS is 8ohm by evidence of its gain in comparison performance to the CKC.

Furthermore, the CKC is so intoxicating....I only got it up to clipping occasionally...but it needs the 8ohm Tranny so I can enjoy its full potential (as I do the SE84CS) on my Synergistic finds: Polk LS-90, Polk SDA 1's & the Klipsch RF-7 II's.
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« Last Edit: 05/31/13 at 17:48:59 by stone_of_tone »  

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Rivieraranch
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Re: I have more Headroom with my SE84CS vs my CKC?
Reply #5 - 06/01/13 at 03:41:08
 
Stone:

The standard configuration for the CKC is with the 4 ohm transformer. The 8 ohm is a variation you have to ask for when ordering. I don't know if it would be economical to switch the transformers. You might be just as well selling it and ordering another one with the 8 ohm transformer.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: I have more Headroom with my SE84CS vs my CKC?
Reply #6 - 06/03/13 at 15:30:30
 
Thanks Rivieraranch, I missed that completely.

I will up the voltage on the output of my Dac and see what I get.  -S
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stone_of_tone
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Re: I have more Headroom with my SE84CS vs my CKC?
Reply #7 - 06/05/13 at 23:14:58
 
Well, it dawned on me that I never used the 274B Rectifier that Steve shipped with and voiced the CKC with?! I put the 274B in with the rest of the original Tubes shipped with it...6N1P-EV and the EV Output Tubes....AND....WHALAH(!)....I have my additional HEADROOM I like when I want it!

I also remember in a Post by Steve, that a lot of Speakers fall into the category that would work well with both Tranny's 2-6 or 6-16 ohm...mine fit the bill for sure with this Tube Complement (you get the Impedance dips anyway on the 3 pair of Speakers I alternate).

Problem solved and I would not part with either my SE84CS or the SuperZen CKC. I have the right Tubes (now) in the CKC as stated. In the SE84CS only a Sovtek NOS 6922 and the original SV83 that Steve voiced the CS with in 2001 will do for me. Unfortunately, they are no longer available. So, I covet the ones that I have.   Cheers, Stone
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« Last Edit: 06/05/13 at 23:34:26 by stone_of_tone »  

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stone_of_tone
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Re: I have more Headroom with my SE84CS vs my CKC?
Reply #8 - 06/06/13 at 15:34:39
 
I've lost my mind. I posted in the "16 ohm thread" 5 months ago about having the 2-6 ohm Tranny?!  Anyway, it is the best fit for my choice of Speakers....now that I have the Tubes "right" for my needs in my CKC. I know enough to be dangerous, as the saying goes....so I will shut up now and just go Listen.  -S
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Rivieraranch
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Re: I have more Headroom with my SE84CS vs my CKC?
Reply #9 - 06/06/13 at 22:34:39
 
Now you are fully stoned.

I will say that you could perk up that Select by slipping in some fresh 6P15P-EV tubes and a good 6N1P-EV with a nice 274 or 5U4 G rectifier.

I recently switched the input, outputs and rectifier in my Super Zen and I had instantly a lot more headroom and slam.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: I have more Headroom with my SE84CS vs my CKC?
Reply #10 - 06/07/13 at 15:12:01
 
No doubt Rivieraranch, the 6P15P-EV, 6N1P-EV and 274B are the ones for the SuperZen CKC. Steve voiced the CKC with these...so no Surprise this complement is spot on with the Magic.

Back in 2005 I did a group buy of some cryoed 6P15P-EV here on the forum with a few guys and they are wonderful Tubes. So it is nice I have a good stock of cryoed ones for the CKC.

However, the Select (SE84CS) has just as much headroom as the CKC has now obtained. The extended bandwidth of the Original Svetlana SV83 offers more shading and subtlety too. I use it with an 6922 and 5U4G-C's that are the best Tubes for the CS that Steve Voiced the SE84CS with IMHO.

NOTE: the Original Sveltana SV83 which is no longer available is not to be confused with the garb that BOI or The Tube Store in Canada are tryng to pass off as the original. It is a horrible Knock-off and Steve warned against it back in 2005.

If one has never heard the Original Svetlana SV83...they will be just fine with the wonderful Tube Compliment EV's and 274B that come with the SuperZen. However, for me, the Svetlana SV83 Original is to be treasured....the shading, extended highs and subtlety that is there...that the very good 6P15P-EV can't do.  However, the EV comes close in the CKC vs. the SV83 in the CS but, just does not belong in my CS, where the Original Svetlana SV83 (6N15NM...my phonetic Russian) rules the Roost.

My Kimber Select 1030 IC and Kimber Select 3033 reveal the differences between the 6P15P-EV & Original Svetlana SV83
output Tubes with ease too.   -Stone
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« Last Edit: 06/07/13 at 16:23:35 by stone_of_tone »  

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Rivieraranch
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Re: I have more Headroom with my SE84CS vs my CKC?
Reply #11 - 06/08/13 at 13:51:13
 
With regard to my CKC, I acquired some GE 6BQ7 tubes screened for TEKTRONIX for use in their scopes. I popped one in the Super Zen and along with a strong testing 5U4 rectifier and new 6P15P-EV power tubes it was a very robust, lively presentation all around.

The 6BQ7 is electrically similar to the 6N1P-EV. The BQ7 is a tad less warm and a little more detailed.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: I have more Headroom with my SE84CS vs my CKC?
Reply #12 - 07/30/13 at 21:56:27
 
I will see if I can track down a 6BQ7.

Well, after 8 months +, I think I finally have my Super Zen CKC burned in... .

I am glad I kept the SE84CS stock to use as my benchmark to judge all others (music lives between 76 & 84db SPL).  It still is my benchmark.....Steve's masterpiece with the original NOS SV83 Svetlana (not New Sensor).  However, the Super Zen is coming along still...... .     -Stone
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jameskk
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Re: I have more Headroom with my SE84CS vs my CKC?
Reply #13 - 08/29/13 at 13:20:22
 
you know stone and RR I've just fired my se84c+ back up after listening to the ckc for damn near a year. now the C+ has a winged C 5u4 and the large labeled 6p15ev's . just not convinced that the C+ is being out done by the CKC. The next step is to use the tubes from the C+ in the CKC. More to come!!!!
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Re: I have more Headroom with my SE84CS vs my CKC?
Reply #14 - 08/29/13 at 14:10:18
 
Interesting. Smiley
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