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CSP2+ added to the signal path (Read 2493 times)
Fireblade
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CSP2+ added to the signal path
04/21/13 at 21:20:43
 
I've noticed many Torii Mk II & III owners couple their amps with this preamp. So do some of the Super Zen (and similar) amp owners. I don't therefore see why it would not be also convenient with the Mini Torii.

Aside from some added sound weight, dynamics and better sound control, the CSP2+ can further enhance its contribution with more fine-tuning potential through its variable input and output adjustments.

The concept becomes even more interesting if we consider that "riding the gain' now becomes exponential: You can ride the gain within the CSP2+ (by adjusting the variable inputs and outputs, accordingly), and then use the master volume control against the Mini Torii's volume setting, for a compounded 'gain riding' effect.

This process opens up a myriad of possible input/output combinations, allowing for a much better matching to the particular system's configuration and signature, and to better compensate for its shortcomings.

Furthermore, if the CSP2+ is as neutral as it is supposed to be, its particular contribution should lessen/dilute the unavoidable 'coloring' of the DAC's signals going to the Mini Torii.  Ater all, all DACs have their own signature (no DAC is perfect), which combines with the amp's own signature.

Having the analog signal being processed by the more neutral preamp will assist in eliminating unwanted 'coloring' from the DAC (especially if the DAC is not top grade).

Therefore, for the cost of adding a CSP2+ and an additional pair of IC's, we can get all the benefits described, including the enhancements inherent to the CSP2+ itself.

Now, compare this proposition to just upgrading your DAC. The new DAC will make significant improvements only when one invests substantially in it. And then, you still get the 'coloring' involved anyway. Most DACs do a good job at converting, but that's just part of the job. The difference between good and excellent DACs lay more on the analog output stage (coloring source), than in its conversion and re-clocking (jitter prevention) duties.

I'm sure Torii Mk II & III owners, as well as some of the others are well aware of this, but I have not seen the Mini Torii community discussing this important sound improvement avenue. This is significantly more pervasive than the simple ZStage proposition, for example.

Any experiences?
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chapsjon
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Re: CSP2+ added to the signal path
Reply #1 - 08/17/19 at 13:53:38
 
I have been enjoying my MT for some time and absolutely love it. I am curious if you ever put the CSP2+ in front as a preamp and what you think? Thanks, Jon.
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Lon
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Re: CSP2+ added to the signal path
Reply #2 - 08/17/19 at 14:57:11
 
Fireblade has not posted in a looooooong time.

I have had 3 CSP2+ in my life (now have one, modded with the 25th Anniversary mods, a CSP3 modded with the 25th Anniversary mods, and a ZTPRE). I have never had an MT, but every amp I hav put the CSP2+ in front of has benefited, and not subtly. . . . Always worth a try.
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chapsjon
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Re: CSP2+ added to the signal path
Reply #3 - 08/18/19 at 01:34:05
 
Thanks Lon. I picked up the CSP2+ from Frank DŪaz. Iíll post back once I get it and let you know what I think. By the way, Iíve been reading the forum for some time and I always appreciate what you have to say. You seem very friendly , especially considering those of us that are building systems , and always helpful. Thanks, Jon.
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Lon
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Re: CSP2+ added to the signal path
Reply #4 - 08/18/19 at 02:01:38
 
Well, you're welcome Jon. I bet you will enjoy the CSP2+! Be sure to update us with your impressions.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
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Rivieraranch
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Re: CSP2+ added to the signal path
Reply #5 - 08/19/19 at 01:22:08
 
Hi Jon:

I have a Mini Torii with anniversary modifications that sounds awesome. I recently connected it to a ZSTAGE and then later exchanged the ZSTAGE for a CSP3.

The CSP3 allows you to control the input to the amp. The Mini is very sensitive to input voltage; only 1 volt brings the amp to full power. So the CSP3 gives you the choice of feeding a lower signal to the amp to crank the volume up, or vice versa using the CSP3 for gain and lowering the volume on the amp.
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chapsjon
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Re: CSP2+ added to the signal path
Reply #6 - 08/19/19 at 04:42:00
 
Thanks for the feedback, Riverranch. I also have a SS amp I can try it with that Iím sure will be vastly improved. I also listen to headphones some so I felt like I couldnít lose on the purchase. My favorite though is the MT. If I have a choice, I listen to that. So I am anxious to hear what difference the CSP2+ will make. Hard to believe this MT could be better, but Iíve already experienced the difference tubes can make. Iíll post after arrival and a little time to assess.
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Rivieraranch
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Re: CSP2+ added to the signal path
Reply #7 - 08/20/19 at 02:16:55
 
Yeah man the Mini Torii is compelling. What version is yours?
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chapsjon
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Re: CSP2+ added to the signal path
Reply #8 - 08/20/19 at 04:27:52
 
I have the first version with white too, but after the rectifier was changed to EZ-81
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Rivieraranch
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Re: CSP2+ added to the signal path
Reply #9 - 08/20/19 at 20:36:15
 
That is mine basically but with adjustable feedback, headphone jack, UFO transformers and anniversary modifications. You might want to pursue that for yourself.
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MINI TORII ANNIVERSARY MODIFIED; SE84UFO; ZSTAGE; MONOLITH SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK2 KAB MODDED TT; ONKYO 6 DISC CD; MARANTZ 2226B; SCHIIT MULTIBIT DAC; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
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chapsjon
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Re: CSP2+ added to the signal path
Reply #10 - 08/21/19 at 03:53:53
 
RR, as I said with Lon, I appreciate the comments and helpfulness of many of your posts throughout the forum, especially to those that are new to this. I too have a headphone jack. Not sure if Iíll ever upgrade my MT. Firstly, I donít think I could part with it long enough. Secondly, I have limited funds and when I want something more it will likely be either a zen for a different sound or a dac. I listen almost exclusively to vinyl currently. Thanks, Jon.
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chapsjon
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Re: CSP2+ added to the signal path
Reply #11 - 08/27/19 at 09:45:43
 
Received my CSP2+. So far I'm listening with a SS amp (PS Audio Sprout 100), haven't tried it with the MT yet. It adds a lot of weight to the Sprout on the analog input. I also really like th difference of listening to headphones (Sennheiser HD598 and Grado 325) through the CSP2+ vs without. I will try with MT too, but the Sprout really needed help with the analog source, noise level was often too high to get high enough volume. Not anymore.
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