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Torii MkIII with KT77, KT88, 6550??? (Read 5261 times)
will
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Torii MkIII with KT77, KT88, 6550???
04/17/13 at 21:36:08
 
Having trusted the reports on the Hazen Grid Mod I have always used EL34s and 6CA7s in my MkIII. So I have never "heard" the difference.

I am interested though.

Can anyone report on their use of KT77, KT88, or 6550 in the Torii MkIII in comparison with EL34s?
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orangecrush
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Re: Torii MkIII with KT77, KT88, 6550???
Reply #1 - 08/14/13 at 01:29:07
 
Well I am going to try Genalex Gold Lion KT77s or KT88, which would be your choice?
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will
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Re: Torii MkIII with KT77, KT88, 6550???
Reply #2 - 08/14/13 at 01:49:44
 
orangecrush,

Not having tried any of them, I can't say. I got caught by some unexpected craziness that ate up the last half year, and I lost the thread of experimenting.  I hear the KT77 is closer to the EL34 electronically, so might match more closely to Steve's bias setup, though not utilize the hazen grid mod. But then, the 88s might do something really cool.

I was also tempted by the 6550, but I don't know! Hopefully you will hear from some who have tried the Genalex's in the MkIII.

Cryoset often matches or betters the price of "raw" tubes with cryo'd tubes, and I think Ron tends to push for tubes with high scores from the factories. Worth a look anyway.

I ran some Genalex 77s in a SE34 for a while, but really can't recall the differences enough to comment with any clarity. I do remember them taking a long time to burn in.

If you get something going, please let us know what you think.
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SteveC
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Re: Torii MkIII with KT77, KT88, 6550???
Reply #3 - 08/14/13 at 02:01:21
 
I'm curious about this too, but I have the words from Torii's manual burned into my mind.

"Unlike the TORII MK II that used EL34, KT77, 6550 or KT88 without re-biasing the TORII
MK III uses our new Hazen Grid Technology to push the transparency, speed, tightness to
a level that greatly surpasses the alternate tubes. Since this is the case, extra voicing
was used to get the maximum sonics from the EL34 at the cost of making any of the
above listed alternates a waste of time because they will not sound as good"

So, while I'm curious, I'm not curious enough (JJ KT88 $39 ea at tubestore for example)  :)    

love to hear about any experiments.

good luck.

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orangecrush
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Re: Torii MkIII with KT77, KT88, 6550???
Reply #4 - 08/15/13 at 02:18:45
 
I leaning towards the KT77. Bias will be be closer. I love how JJ's sound but the failure rate has been dismal for me.
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Lon
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Re: Torii MkIII with KT77, KT88, 6550???
Reply #5 - 08/15/13 at 02:25:34
 
I'm going to ignore this thread so I don't end up with yet another box full of tubes. . . .
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« Last Edit: 08/15/13 at 02:25:55 by Lon »  

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will
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Re: Torii MkIII with KT77, KT88, 6550???
Reply #6 - 08/15/13 at 05:50:28
 
orangecrush,

Are you referring to JJ power tubes in general, or the 6CA7? I am temped to give the JJKT77 a try.
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orangecrush
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Re: Torii MkIII with KT77, KT88, 6550???
Reply #7 - 08/15/13 at 15:37:56
 
JJ6CA7 is the only JJ's I have used. They are cheap but so far I have never gotten more then 6 months from a quad. These have gotten my attention: http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/store/products/psvane-philips-holland-metal-base...
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will
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Re: Torii MkIII with KT77, KT88, 6550???
Reply #8 - 08/15/13 at 15:57:07
 
I have trouble with the JJ6CA7s in my MkIII too. Don't know why, but I am thinking that this may not rule out other JJs. It seems at one point Steve stopped shipping the 6CA7 and shipped JJEL34s instead.

Those Psvanes look good. Still use the Hazen Grid too. If you get them please let us know how they sound.
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will
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Re: Torii MkIII with KT77, KT88, 6550???
Reply #9 - 08/15/13 at 21:59:51
 
I just stuck back in my most recent JJ6CA7s. I got them from Cryoset and and hoping they last. In the past, when the tube was newly out, I would lose one tube in a quad  within 80-100 hours, so was able to work it out with the vendor. This set was later production and has maybe 500 hours with no problems. Hope they last. They sure have a nice distinctive sound. Makes me remember how much I like them.
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« Last Edit: 08/15/13 at 22:00:10 by will »  

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Lon
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Re: Torii MkIII with KT77, KT88, 6550???
Reply #10 - 08/15/13 at 22:21:59
 
In four sets of four JJ 6CA7 tubes, one set cryo'd, in use in two amplifiers, I have had one failure of a tube, which failed after thousands of hours, and perhaps because it shook in a box in the back of a UHaul truck for 1500 miles. . . Smiley

I love these tubes and will keep using them. They've better sound than any other current production tube I've tried in these amps, and the Hazen Grid Mod works. I love the sound I get.
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« Last Edit: 08/15/13 at 22:25:16 by Lon »  

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orangecrush
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Re: Torii MkIII with KT77, KT88, 6550???
Reply #11 - 08/16/13 at 02:07:43
 
Lon, you have either been extremely lucky  or many others have been very unlucky! Man I wish I could get more than a couple hundred hours out of a set, but one tube always goes. It really sucks. It gets to the point where it becomes more expensive to run tubes with failure rates. My last were from Cyroset and I hoped they would be better. Really frustrating.

Will, sadly all JJ's tubes seem to suffer from high failure rate if you look around the web. Some vendors won't sell them anymore. However their octals seem to nave the worst reputation. I think PaleRider has said this before.

The golden lion KT77 gets rave reviews and are seem to be very well made and that is why I was interested in them. However, for the price, I now wonder about spending more and going for those Psvanes EL34PH which as you say will still take advantage of the hazel grid mod. They are a few headfiers who are using them with Headamps Blue Hawaii Special amp ($6,000 headphone amp) and one poster said the "Psvane EL34PH is knocking the crap out of the Shuguang 6CA7-Z. It's not even close. Better everything, not more, just way better". Others report they surpass very expensive NOS EL34's. Psvane claims the design process costs even more than the WE300B 1:1 replica which retail at $900 a pair.

I had trouble with the Treasures from Decware, but it seems unless you buy from Grant Fidelity, you are getting lower quality tubes are meant to be sold locally in China. These new EL34PH's also have some issues, seem a bit fragile (centre guide pin can break) but Psvane says the pins are a bit larger then newer tubes as it is an exact replica so you need to be more careful. There replica series of tubes seem to be getting ridiculously good reviews. If you could actually get close to 5000 hours on a set they would be cheaper, than buying several sets of JJ's with shipping. Steve says the way the amp is designed tubes are supposed to last longer than normal, so that is not unrealistic.




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Lon
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Re: Torii MkIII with KT77, KT88, 6550???
Reply #12 - 08/16/13 at 12:07:09
 
Maybe I'm lucky, maybe because I'm using 6N1P as input tube?  I've tried 6922 and 6DJ8, 7DJ8 etc. and I just don't prefer the nature of the sound. Perhaps the 6N1P drives these differently? Steve is now shipping with TungSols (don't like these myself).
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will
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Re: Torii MkIII with KT77, KT88, 6550???
Reply #13 - 08/16/13 at 16:24:05
 
Lon,

I wish I knew how the current the inputs draw effect the power tubes....I have been told that 6N1Ps do draw 600mah filament versus 300 mah for the others. But I can't use them in my MkIII because of too-early distortion, so if your thought is correct, I am out anyway.

orangecrush,

I just don't have the confidence to buy a 400 dollar quad unheard. Ran into the same sort of feeling with the KT77 Golden Lions due to Steve's opinion on the Hazen Grid mod...a $200 risk. At some point I decided to splurge on a good buy for some Siemens/RFT NOS EL34s...a favorite for many. Great and interesting sound, but they Just never got under my skin.

I agree with your thinking though. If the Psvane  EL34PH sound as good as reported, and they last, the Psvane may well be a great buy compared to failing JJ6CA7s over the long run. I don't get why they decided to be that purist in reproduction as to make the guide pins fragile, but you never know what does what with the revealing sound of our amps. Seems a doable thing though knowing they are tight and fragile...

I am in hopes that my latest Quad of JJs holds up...maybe they sorted out build issues. But I am discouraged that you have found a lot of reports on bad JJs. I really like the sound of the 6CA7s.
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Lon
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"Love without
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Posts: 7584
Re: Torii MkIII with KT77, KT88, 6550???
Reply #14 - 08/16/13 at 17:10:42
 
will, yeah, I don't know the electrical effects either, but it seems there would be something besides luck that would account for my lack of failures on the 6CA7.
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