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The MYSTERY AMP ! (Read 130617 times)
Lon
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #975 - 03/20/14 at 17:49:07
 
Lonely Raven wrote on 03/20/14 at 17:09:36:
I also have a power cord from Palomino to try out, and my hand is hovering over the purchase button on a PS Audio AC5 2M for $190 shipped. Though I really want to try an AC12. Lon, you want to loan me one?  :)


The AC-5s are quite good. . . the goodness deepens when you go to the AC-10 and really gets amazing with the AC-12. Sorry Eric, mine are all in use and I'd have to accompany them wherever they go, and with my situation there's no traveling going on! Can't even call in sick for a day, and no weekends off! Sad
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Lon
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"Love without
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #976 - 03/20/14 at 17:56:31
 
Glad you are digging those tubes madddogg! They are the real deal for me.
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Dave1210
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #977 - 03/20/14 at 18:51:44
 
One of the things I like about Decware is the upgrade potential (some probably hate it).  There is some comfort in knowing that your gear won’t be obsolete in a couple of years.  I think this is especially relevant with technologies that are moving at a fast pace (e.g. DAC’s).  PS Audio has offered an upgrade option for their DAC in the past and are now doing so with the DirectStream.  Early adopters of the PS Audio PerfectWave DAC have lived through the mki to mkii conversion, and  most users probably felt the upgrade was money well spent (given the performance increase).  This upgrade is a little different IMO.  Both the analog and digital boards and the power supply need to be replaced.  Instead of a $1000 upgrade, this is a $3000 upgrade (it appears to be a linear scale vs. the mkimkii upgrade…upgrade 1 part and it’s $1K, upgrade 3 parts and it’s $3K).  Not only is it a very expensive upgrade, which increases expectations significantly, but current users have to decide exactly what to do with the already great DAC that could be sitting (albeit in pieces) on their kitchen table after the upgrade.  Are we just going to throw the old boards in the trash and call it a day?  Seems crazy.  I wouldn’t mind having my current PW Dac as the front end in any system.  I bet there is a significant portion of the current PSA user base that is trying to figure out exactly what to do…

On a totally different note, would there be a benefit to tube rolling the OA3 tubes in the ZMA?  Do people have favorites for these types of tubes?  If so, recommendations and where to pick them up?   Cheers!    
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Lon
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"Love without
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #978 - 03/20/14 at 19:01:19
 
Dave, there already is one thread on the PSA forum where someone is trying to figure out what to do with the PWD Mk II boards. NOT going to be eay as you need a display and it can't be that simple to just slap on another display.

Mk I owners will probably be able to do an upgrade to Mk II cheap, there should be quite a few of those boards for sale!

As far as OA3, in the Torii there definitely is a benefit to rolling them.  I've moved to OB3 in my new home where I need less bass. I have found RCA, Raytheon and GE to be quite good, and a pair of Arcturus to be the very cat's meow. All I have I have gotten off ebay.
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« Last Edit: 03/20/14 at 19:11:09 by Lon »  

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vyokyong
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #979 - 03/20/14 at 20:33:33
 
Dave, tube rolling for ZMA. Yes, I have done with Siemens E88CC ($370 for quad), RCA 6L6GC ($380 for quad) and RCA JAN OA3 ($35 for pair).

The sound quality of ZMA with stock tubes is unquestionably superb
. But I need more in lush midrange female vocal, sparkle treble and powerful bass or bass slam.

My first plan is to burn in ZMA with stock tubes for >300 hrs first to know the sound. Then do tube rolling step by step to observe sound quality changing. But ZMA with stock tube's sound is so good that I imagine what if I put Siemens E88CC tubes in, how much is the sound improvement?  
I cannot wait, I change plan to put in Siemens E88CC tubes first 3 days ago. Midrange sound is more lush, both high end and low end extend more, more holograph sound stage. But speed is slower than stock tube.  The fun or PRAT is reduce a little. But overall sound improvement is very satisfy. I replace KT66 with RCA 6L6GC next day. There is more dense sound and more bass. Now speed come back, PRAT is same as stock tube now. But bass is little boated, not well control. Then I put in RCA JAN OA3.
OMG, it is the last jigsaw. RCA JAN OA3 make over all sound dense, coherent and PUNCH SLAM bass!  Boated bass disappear and very well control now.

Now I get all, lush midrange female vocal sound to die for of tube amp reputation, sparkle high and PUNCH SLAM bass!  Playing with heavy rock music, you can feel wavy air movement of bass. It is very very scare realism! If you run at 56 ma, it likes discotheque. If you run at 52 ma, it likes stadium rock live concert. The strange is that you just listen at normal SPL 80-93. It is scale down at any SPL, no need to get loud of 100 SPL to get rock live concert feel.

Is it worth to change tubes as above? In my system, the answer is absolute yes!  I will report more when have more hours on these tubes. It is improving.
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Dave1210
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #980 - 03/21/14 at 02:25:55
 
Lon..thanks for the info on rolling the OA3's.  I will pick up some different OA3's and OB3's to try down the road.

Vyokyong…thanks for the heads up on the tubes and your thorough write up on your experience with tube rolling in the ZMA.  Sounds like you were prepared to roll and you are indeed rockin'.  I will look into acquiring  the tubes you mentioned to experiment with.

This may be a stupid question, but is there something unique about the JAN descriptor for the RCA OA3 tubes?  It seems that some tubes on ebay contain the descriptor and others don't.  See link below…are these the tubes you are referring to, or should I be looking for something different?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RCA-0A3-VR-75-VINTAGE-SINGLE-TUBE-OA3-NEW-OLD-STOCK-UNUS...
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Lon
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"Love without
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Posts: 7381
Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #981 - 03/21/14 at 02:46:27
 
Oh the old "Joint Army Navy" designation. . . usually meant they were in more basic packaging, may mean with some brands and types that they were a bit more rugged and/or teseted more heavily but I'm not sure that is generally the case.

Yeah, RCA made OA3 over many years and a rather personal observation that I've come to is that with regulation and rectification tubes. . .the older the better.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #982 - 03/21/14 at 03:35:53
 
I have a bunch of JAN OB3 that are heading to the classifieds soon. That said, the manual for the ZMA said 0A3 only.
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Dave1210
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #983 - 03/21/14 at 03:43:40
 
I guess I should read the manual!  I definitely don't want to do anything stupid and wreck a good thing.
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Lon
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"Love without
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #984 - 03/21/14 at 04:03:47
 
Ah, not owning a ZMA I didn't read that. In the Torii you can use OA3, OB3, OC3 or OD3. That sort of flexiblity is VERY cool.
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vyokyong
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #985 - 03/21/14 at 04:08:54
 
Dave, NOS (new old stock) tubes under same brand have many variance and sound different. You must check carefully in all details in order to get same tube which someone recommend.

MY RCA OA3 tube is JAN or  the old "Joint Army Navy" designation. . . usually meant they were in more basic packaging, may mean with some brands and types that they were a bit more rugged and/or teseted more heavily, which is explain by Lon.

I posted wrong price, Its price is only US 18 per pair. From your link website. IMO, it is okay because it is NIB (new in box) The tube's condition is better than me. But it is not JAN. But you must request seller to send you matched pair (from tube tester machine). From picture, my two tubes are not exactly same but they are matched pair.

JAN RCA OA3 tubes replace stock OA3 tubes. The sound is more dense in all frequency. Bass is well control, tighter and punch powerful bass. First install, the sound stage is narrower or contract but it will expand wider, more holograph sound stage after just 10 hrs.

I highly recommend to start first tube rolling of RCA OA3 because its price is low and see the result of NOS tubes. If you like then you can roll other tubes.

This is also my first time of NOS tubes rolling. But this is the main reason that I switch from SS amp to tube amp. I want to try  NOS tube legendary story by myself. Is it true that NOS tubes are better than current production. From first round, I am very happy of my bet NOS tubes. However there are many fake NOS tubes in market today, you must carefully buy NOS tubes to get real one. All my tubes buying are from e-Bay!
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vyokyong
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #986 - 03/21/14 at 04:31:02
 
Seimens E88CC NOS tubes rolling in ZMA.

My tubes detail is Two matched pairs of  vintage SIEMENS & HALSKE E88CC = 6922 (ECC88 / 6DJ8) double hi-mu triode tubes in NOS condition from the 1960ies. This quad set, I bought from eBay seller in Budapest, Hungary.

Calibrated TV-7/U  test results :

(62 is the minimum value on 6922/E88CC tubes)

   scale reading                     transconductance                      factory code

tube#1 :  100/110      (12.5/13.8mA/V)      A0 1= 4D (1961)

tube#2 :  104/104     (13.0/13.0mA/V)      A0 1= 3B (1961)

tube#3 :  110/106      (12.5/13.2mA/V)      A4 9K     (1964)

     tube#4 :  100/96       (12.5/12.0mA/V)      no readable code    

When you roll Siemens E88CC NOS tubes  to replace stock tubes, the sound change is
-both end of sound frequency extend, more high and more deep bass.
-Mid range sound is more lush, vivid, palpable.
-Wider sound stage and very well holographic sound stage.
But the PRAT or speed is lower than stock tubes.

IMO, this is the crown of tube rolling in ZMA.
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vyokyong
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #987 - 03/21/14 at 04:54:09
 
RCA 6L6GC Black Plate NOS tube rolling in ZMA.

There are two types, Black Plate and Grey Plate. Mine is Black Plate and matched quad set.

When you roll this tube to replace stock tube. The sound change is

- Get better PRAT and speed. It is more fun to listen, particularly rock music. It helps to solve weakness of Siemens E88CC tube.
- More mass or weight in Bass but bass is not well controlled, a little boated.
- A little less power compared to KT66 tubes. But it is still acceptable in my case with 85 dB sensitivity speakers.

In my case, I recommend to use both RCA OA3 NOS tube together with RCA 6L6GC Black Plate. Because RCA OA3 tube helps to solve boated bass of RCA 6L6GC Black Plate. And if you like to listen heavy rock music, this is a heaven tube rolling in ZMA for heavy rock music.
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vyokyong
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #988 - 03/21/14 at 04:57:16
 
More picture
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Lonely Raven
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #989 - 03/21/14 at 12:41:27
 
Those RCA Blackplate 6L6 are some of my favorite tubes in vintage guitar amps from the '50s and '60s. Great tubes!
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