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The MYSTERY AMP ! (Read 181415 times)
Steve Deckert
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #285 - 11/13/13 at 22:56:47
 
Quote:
That was a completely honest answer Stone. I'm sorry, I'm not into his ramped up writing.

It makes it seem like hype even if it isn't, and I'm not much of a fan of hype.

So REALLY Stone. I've even been downplaying how much I dislike it, and it HAS made me less interested in the amp than I would otherwise.


I would like to address one of the sub themes in this thread, which is about how I write.  I respect Lon for having the balls to be honest.  I actually feel the same way to some extent, in that I know my writing is going to sound like just a lot more BS of which the industry is certainly plenty full of already.  That knowledge makes me uncomfortable for the same reasons that Lon pointed out.

Problem is when your gear sounds this good, it's hard to be honest about it's sound without sounding like you're full of shit.  I get that.  In fact, I would love nothing more than to take the position, well, we've been around for 17 years now, most everyone probably knows about Decware, the reviews are everywhere, all I should have to do is present the product, price it, support it and leave everyone else to decide what it sounds like and write about it.  

The reason I don't is because I want to sell amps and the more information you can offer about them, the easier it is to sell them.  Despite appearances everything I say is true and I have the room and everything we make to prove it to anyone who cares enough to put me to that test.  I plead guilty to writing with extra enthusiasm, but it's actually genuine which is why it's there.  

Really, I don't know how to write any other way - to retain the enthusiasm without Puffing.  I'd have to hire a professional writer to pull that off.  I've been told to hire someone to do the web site too, but being the control geek I am, I choose to continue doing it myself.  So, it's the raw real deal here, misspelled words and all - for better or worse, I'm probably not going to change.

With specific regard to the Power Regeneration Lon is correct that in most cases the Torii will sound better with one, despite using voltage regulation tubes to filter the power. If the Torii didn't use VR tubes, the sentence would read "sound a lot better with one".  With respect to the Mystery amp, and it's comparatively huge DC resevour, I have found the difference to be even less to the point of being hard to hear in some cases.  My guess is spending 5 grand on a power regenerator with a Mystery Amp may not be the place where 5 grand can make the biggest difference in the system.  I could be wrong, time will tell, but taking the same 5 grand and buying a better source may be far more obvious.

With that, I don't think this post needs any further comments because doing so derails this thread about the Mystery Amp.

I'll be starting to build the first ones soon and working on the web page so I'll post any news or updates here first.

I just wanted to point out that Lon has a valid argument about the way I write.

Thanks!
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maddog07
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #286 - 11/13/13 at 23:51:36
 
As I discussed w/you at Zenfest  Steve… “it must suck to be you – all your amps sound great – just different to me.  Paired with the right speakers, sources, your acoustics and preferences taken into account, a guy could live contentedly with any of them for a very long time.  How do you go about differentiating them?”

I’ve owned two Decware amps in the last year, they are the First tube amps I have ever owned in 30+ years of chasing the audio holy grail!  I’ve only had my Torii mk.III driving the speakers I always intended it for, less than 6 months.  I have the best sound in my room – by far – that I’ve ever had.  And though acoustic memory is poor at best, I feel like the sound I have now competes with the best I’ve ever heard, anywhere, at any price.. and I’ve owned/heard a lot.
I listened to all the amps at Zenfest… but I’m just enjoying my “Jupitered” mk.III Torii’s synergy with my DIY speakers too much right now to give it up.  In reality I’m pretty sure I have not unlocked all its potential yet.  And I'm also certain there is more "Decware" in my future.. I just don't know exactly what yet!!

The other thing that I think we all need to keep in mind… make no mistake.. “hearing” is an individual “perception”.  It is influenced by a multitude of factors that are “variable” for each and every one of us.  But the gist is: If you think you hear something – then you do – period – end of argument.  And on the contrary, if you do not think you hear it – then you don’t.  It Does Not Matter What Anybody Else “thinks” you should or should not hear.

That being said, keep right on puffing Steve… and keep that mad-scientist mind of yours pushing the envelope of what can be done in “music reproduction” in our homes….  I can’t wait to hear what you come up with next.  I know that if you’re excited about it – I probably need to hear it for myself !!!  And when I do, I’ll decide if it’s right for me – and if I hear it the same way you hear it.  We all do not have to agree on how something sounds or what is “best”.  There’s no such thing!  There is only the best for each of us, which will not be the same for all of us.  It's unrealistic to expect everyone to agree on the same thing - this is not even possible.  But that Doesn’t Matter… we don’t need to.

Now, let’s all go put on some great music, pop-a-top, kick our feet up in our listening chair  - and drift away…  and if you're lucky, the illusion will be delivered via Decware gear!
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Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva UMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aesthetix Calypso, Marsh P200b, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, I'm outta room..
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Lon
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #287 - 11/14/13 at 00:46:09
 
Steve, thanks for understanding what I wrote.

I too hate that I write about Decware with such enthusiasm that it seems like hype. People ask me what I think about Decware and I gush. Some of them think I'm a shill and I'm just blowing hot air and step away. I feel sad because they then buy an inferior amp and never know what they are missing. And if I had found another way to describe the amps perhaps they would have been drawn in not pushed away.

You're right, it's hard not to write that way. And I guess you can't not do so, I find it hard to not do so. I AM very enthusiastic about the products and can't hide it. I do feel that it repels some readers and seekers (and have emails and PMs to bolster that belief). And even as I know there's so much truth in there I find myself stepping back from it, even when I write it. I don't have the answer in how to not alienate these readers, and perhaps as Will states they aren't that important. I don't know.

And it is hard to describe these things. I mean this week I put my NEW Torii Mk III in the main system in place of the tried and true seasoned one. I LOVE what the bass control on this new one does, my old one does not/cannot have this control and in my former room this would have been a real game-changer, and in this room it's a great tool to bring the best out of the source material. But overall. . . the amp really lacks an important ease of sound and depth of sound that the seasoned one just EXUDES. The new one has 2000 hours on it or so, I've been running it almost non-stop in my second system. It's not raw, it should be broken in, but I wish I had the best of both of them: that magic that the first one has, the flexible control that the new one has. What exactly IS that something? I am not sure how to articulate it exactly, but I hear it and feel it immediately.

Thanks also for explaining further the power regenerator comment. I hadn't quite gotten that the Mystery Amp was different in that respect in your assessment and you were specifically writing about that in your comment. And the problem was not your writing at all, it was my comprehension.

To bring my post back to the Mystery Amp, a question Steve: will it take extra time for these huge capacitors to "seat" and season?

Thanks for your reply.
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« Last Edit: 11/14/13 at 04:03:51 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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stone_of_tone
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #288 - 11/14/13 at 01:26:06
 
"I'll be starting to build the first ones soon and working on the web page so I'll post any news or updates here first".

Steve, thanks for sharing your input an insight for this Amplifier. I look forward to the MA web page. Thanks also, for the peace of mind shipping with the Pelican Case/plus future use/moving.    -S
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Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
360 degree Rm Treats
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Lonely Raven
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #289 - 11/14/13 at 04:40:30
 
.

Quote:
I'll be starting to build the first ones soon and working on the web page so I'll post any news or updates here first



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« Last Edit: 11/14/13 at 04:40:53 by Lonely Raven »  
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stone_of_tone
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #290 - 11/14/13 at 15:19:15
 
LR-Hey! That is me (minus the side burns).  ;D

....my Kimber Select 3035 Speaker Cables, are out for delivery 11/19 Tuesday. I will get them burned in with my 1030 IC before the MA arrives (Listening Room System). I still like my Audio Alchemy front end the best in 20 bit dither with premium i2s input=still competes with any redbook front end under 8k (Listening Room).

However, I will eventually break the seal on hi-rez with my Anedio D2 (in the Listening Room). Currently though, I am enjoying the redbook coming out of the D2 with my bedroom System...with CKC, Kimber Hero IC & Zen Styx....Pioneer as Transport with Illuminati D-60 coax digital cable. The Listening Room System kicks the bedroom Systems Ass...but it should and does (my upgrade from 3033 Speaker Cable to my 3035 should dial the ass woopen' in even more...Over the bedroom System). ....you must have the 1030 IC to go with it....but well worth it (and 86 to 92 db Speakers).

Bring on the Majesty & the Torque of the MA Lonely Raven!  I needs what I needs!    8-) -S
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« Last Edit: 11/14/13 at 15:48:25 by stone_of_tone »  

Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
360 degree Rm Treats
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Lonely Raven
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #291 - 11/14/13 at 16:00:30
 

Those are some seriously bad-ass looking speaker cables!


My system is going to be very much more conservative due to my budget limitations.

Oppo BDP-105 (which I'm really enjoying, but still trying to figure out).
Zen Silver Reference (1M)
Mystery Amp
(my version) 10AWG Zen Styx - bare wire ends
Bob's tweaked MG944

My two big projects in preparation of the MA are:

Filtering/Isolation
I have a Trip Lite Hospital Grade conditioner and Isolator, plus my Monster Signature HT5100 filter. I'm considering a PS Audio P3 if I can find a use one cheap. Then have all the devices battle it out once the MA arrives and keep only what works *best* with this setup.

QRD Diffusers.

I'm going to build some 1' deep QRD diffusers. Probably 3' tall each, and they'd be stackable (obviously with a 1' depth!). I had a design cooked up but I forgot what my settings were, so this I whipped up really quickly as an example.



I figure 4-6 on each side, and 6-8 on the back wall to replace my shallow 3" deep diffusers. On the front wall, I'm thinking about something even larger. 1' deep, but a QRD 29. Hell, I just might do QRD 29 all around the room. I keep tweaking and optimizing - but every time I do, it makes the build more complicated. I've been daydreaming about how to build a jig to help assemble these faster and more accurately so I can mass produce them for myself since it's looking like I want 22-24 of these!



It's going to be a lot of work, and huge expense - but I think it's the only way to get the holographic imaging I'm looking for!

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stone_of_tone
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #292 - 11/14/13 at 16:18:00
 
Very cool. I am a firm believer in Room treatment. I have had a treated room since 1996. Mine of more humble design. I read Robert Harley's first book....and was skeptical of Room treatment (in 1996). However, following the basic principles (and Steve's writing on it as well/2001)....I have tamed the rooms....my 3rd House now. What you're doing is absolutely Wow.  You will be set.

If you can't find one cheap (PS Audio P3).....buy from the CableCo at an 11.5% discount....returnable for one of equal or greater value at this discount. Plus, plenty others to choose from!  

Check it out:

http://www.thecableco.com/Catalog/Power-Line-Products
then go to what you will actually pay....... . I have loved their cable demo program!
....and of course with this many power regen's to try....I should be able to find one for my SE84CS & CKC.    

I will continue to use my Adcom AC-Enhancer 515 with Hubbell XLO Pro Power Cord to the Mystery Amp.

....my timeline: Kimber Select 3035, Mystery Amplifier, Kef R900 Speakers auditioned in Listening Room....and Legacy Signature SE's.....and Acoustic Zen Adagio's....late Winter.   -Stone

.....but I am curious to try this....
http://www.thecableco.com/Product/Tesla-Powercell-6-SE
http://www.thecableco.com/Product/Save--300-on-the-Synergistic-Research-Powercel...
Try the Powercell 4 or Powercell 6 with (and without for reference) the Element Tungsten AC cable through our Cable Library to hear what a top flight line filtration system can do for your sound!

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« Last Edit: 11/14/13 at 17:44:28 by stone_of_tone »  

Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
360 degree Rm Treats
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Lonely Raven
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #293 - 11/19/13 at 17:12:21
 
Looks like Decware has 7 more Torii Mk IV in line ahead of the first two Mystery Amps!

Getting closer guys!

I think I saw 8 Mystery Amps ordered so far on the build sheet!


Hearing a Rachel in my living room recently, and having over-driven it a bit at normal listening levels, I'm looking forward to seeing what those giant caps and solid state rectification does to keep up with busy/dynamic recordings.

I actually made my Zen amp wobble playing some pipe organ recordings at 24/192 - I actually apologized to the amp afterwards...especially since I laughed at it pretty much wetting the bed.  ;D

Anywho, looking forward to this big jump up from the Zen amp - I'm asking for gift cards for high-def recording pages for Xmas.  8-)
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maddog07
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #294 - 11/19/13 at 21:24:13
 
I hadn't really taken notice of the MA's "solid state rectification"... and had never really bothered to notice just exactly what all the tubes in the MA are actually doing.  OK... so we have two output tubes per, and two input tubes.  What are the two taller ones in the middle doing - regulation for inputs or outputs?  What are the other two smaller tubes by the input tubes doing?  I guess I should take a close look at the pictures I took at zenfest and I could probably answer these questions for myself.  I did not find an explanation in this thread of this either.
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Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva UMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aesthetix Calypso, Marsh P200b, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, I'm outta room..
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Lonely Raven
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #295 - 11/19/13 at 21:43:34
 
Unless I misunderstood -

Solid State Rectification to keep the caps happy.

OA3 Grid Regulation.

6922 input tube for each output tube

KT66 Output tubes

And then some sort of dual-balanced bias adjustment setup with meters.



It's not as much of a forest of tubes like the Mk IV - which is good for me since I don't always have patients for tube rolling. I'd prefer to pay a slight premium to have the amp builder roll tubes for me. My custom built guitar amps are done this way. When I've tube rolled, I tend to come back to what the builder chose.
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« Last Edit: 11/19/13 at 21:46:05 by Lonely Raven »  
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Lonely Raven
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #296 - 11/19/13 at 21:49:24
 

Also, from my rudimentary knowledge of tube amp building -

I recall reading somewhere that high Mfd caps don't work well with tube rectification - I don't recall the reason why, but it's the first thing I thought of when Steve mentioned 2000Mfd caps - so solid state rectification might be a requirement for such large caps. This is why most tube amps have 40mfd or less caps in the first stage, then a chain of caps/resistors down the line.

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stone_of_tone
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #297 - 11/20/13 at 17:14:21
 
Nice pic LRaven!

Of course we have the NOS Mallory Caps coming with it....and I have the stepped attenuator as well...walnut base with walnut knob.

Madddog, did you scap up some RCA OA3's from Tube Depot?

...my Kimber Select 3035 Speaker Cable came in last night. Even right out of the box....brand new shipped directly from Kimber in Ogden....they are all that & a bag of chips.

I use conventional loudspeakers with my Decware Amps. As do quite a few here (86db to 92db) on the Forum. Their is something to this capacitance resistance impedance "thing"... .  I moved my Kimber Select 3033 speaker cables to my bedroom rig with my Kimber Hero IC and Decware CKC with Anedio DAC....and I have more headroom! The only variable changed was the 3033 in the chain.

.....same with the Kimber Select 3035 speaker cable in the Listening Room...more headroom/volume available....with the attributes the 3035/can get out of the way of the Music even more. .....quite the handshake between Decware Amplifier & Speakers!  

......bring on the MA for the Torque and it's own flavor and ability to drive a few more Speakers in the works (plus my SRS SDA 1.2's)...I want it to drive. However, I will be burning it in-in the Listening Room where it won't leave for quite awhile.   -S
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Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
360 degree Rm Treats
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Lonely Raven
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #298 - 11/22/13 at 15:18:37
 

Are these the appropriate RCA OA3 you're talking about?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JAN-CRC-0A3-OA3-Regulator-Tube-RCA-silver-Mixed-1958-Dat...

I didn't think they really wore out quickly - is it something I should have an extra pair on hand?

I don't need rectifier tubes, and I'm assuming Steve picked the Tung-Sol output tubes because they are available and sound good...so I probably don't need to stock up on them - but maybe have a spare set sometime in the future in case of tube failure.
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Lon
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #299 - 11/22/13 at 15:54:37
 
Those are correct, and they should last a long time. I've moved to OB3 myself, in my new place the 'push' from the OA3 is just a bit too much, but that is also in another amp altogether.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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