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The MYSTERY AMP ! (Read 171917 times)
Lon
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #255 - 11/06/13 at 18:44:50
 
Okay, whatever, I know my opinion is not popular. I'm certainly not  changing mine due to your posts, you're not changing yours. I'm dropping it, and going to listen to music instead.
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will
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #256 - 11/06/13 at 18:48:06
 
Thanks LR. Yes, I think these guys are really good at what they do, and their personal need for excellence stimulates creative process. This results in something special, and if all "professional" folks were basically good people, allowed to creatively explore for improved whatever, this world would be a very different place indeed.

If only...... Wink

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will
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #257 - 11/06/13 at 18:53:07
 
Oh Lon. I don't mean to discount your opinions. They are always welcome to me. You make real points...I just like the other side of it in this case.
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Lon
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"Love without
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worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7827
Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #258 - 11/06/13 at 19:02:53
 
I'm dropping it. I don't agree with your assessment, nor you with mine. It's fine, the respect is mutual.

I have very limited time to myself right now, dealing with a lot of stress things and I'm going to just chill. Bye for now.
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marky
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #259 - 11/06/13 at 19:20:05
 
Thats well said Will. We sit and wait while, to me, somebody thousands of miles away does wonders with what he has between his ears, and then presents it to you at a non rip-off price and lifetime guarantee. Not off the peg but tailor made...or so it appears...such is the quality. This thread, as you describe, gave everyone an insight as to the time it takes. I did at one time think `no, he`s going over the top here, he`s just saying that`
Thats bad on me, because I too am a sceptical animal, especially in this day and age of pushy ads, or as you say `snake oil`.
The problem is, if you read any of his descriptions for the products he`ll always throw in a claim that arouses, confronts the sceptisism.
Well, I`m sure we`re all glad we believed it, or at least thought of them like the claims of a boxers title claim. They`re bold and don`t back down.
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« Last Edit: 11/06/13 at 20:42:04 by marky »  

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will
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #260 - 11/07/13 at 02:16:22
 
Hey Marky. I hear you. This is really interesting to me. A big part of it seems to come down to reality and our ability to feel it. There is a lot of BS out there, but when we question the truth because of fear of BS, that can get highly non-productive. I guess we just have to discern for ourselves and hope we get it right.

And all the folks who read this forum and Steve's descriptions, and determine we must be cultish or delusional because it is mostly complimentary...that  is pretty weird if you think about it. In this mode, the assumption is that no one in this world is capable of integrity and relative impeccability. I say, why not...this is a part of this whacked out world I am glad to find!

So I can understand Steve's excitement about ending up with an amp that got somewhere that moves him. And as we all know, with this stuff, the criteria for success are very high. For me, in my room, it is a amazing sense of players and instruments in this room. That takes gear and room synergy that can express with amazing finesse and with many indescribable qualities. Art really.

I am really glad Steve loves his stuff so fully. I do too! And for me, this zig, or that zag, that seems a little off to me from my experience, I don't really care...I get a lot from how Steve describes the gear. It gives me a nice palpable sense of what I can expect if my other gear and room are up to it.
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Palomino
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #261 - 11/07/13 at 04:34:48
 
Maybe this has no relevance, but I attended a conference today where the central theme is innovation.  One of the primary speakers talked about the number of hours it takes for many of today's (and historically) well respected innovators to achieve true works of art.  It's a minimum of 10,000 hours or roughly 10 years.  Its documented across multiple fields.  Much of the innovation we see today is the result of years of experimentation rather than a point in time ah-ha moment of innovation.

I don't know when Steve released his first pushpull but I this we are seeing some of the best work on the tube amp or simply stereo amplification today with the latest Decware amps.  He's put in the time.
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SteveC
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #262 - 11/07/13 at 04:44:53
 
I was new to tubes not very long ago and wondering about tube amps and these 'set' amps in particular. found the zkit. found decware. found the articles, etc.  They all raved that a 2watt high efficiency system was the cats meow.  a measly 2watts.  Well, those guys were a bunch of crack smoking over exaggerators if I had every seen one.  2 watts can't possibly do what they claim.   bullshit.  (Then I tried one and was floored, and converted, mostly.).

I took the bait on the Torii3.  While I was in the waiting line, I was worried about buyers remorse.  I mean going from hundreds to thousands was a big $ jump.  Would this be the last amp I'd ever want?  Would it really sound as good as the simple zen even though is was a push pull?  I mean he writes outrageous things like it keeps the even order harmonics, so it sounds like a set even though it isn't. What flavor of bull crap was that?  Again, skeptic alarm was going off.  But I was adventurou$.  (then the tori arrived and it was everything I... we all love about ours.  and it behaved quite like how Steve described.  over and over I'd find my own discovery and descriptions to be similar to what he wrote.  I'd realize "ahh, that's what he really means when he says that".)

About power generation and the iron in the ground joke...  I have been and am still curious about where this fits in my "hierarchy of sonic importance".  where does it go... near the amp/speakers/source? or with the wires.  I realize from the posts pointed out earlier, that the mystery amp has basically the same power demands as the tori, but that it has a 9000 horse power engine dropped in for fun.  having gobs of high current available is like having unlimited torque.  When the throttle moves, so do the wheels (yeah, imagine bullet proof axles, shafts, gears, etc).  no lag, clinically accurate throttle response.  That's what seems to be novel in this amp.  From a clean power perspective, think of it as nearly a battery powered amp.  I mean, having those Olympic swimming pool sized reservoirs... well, they're practically batteries.  Any noise/ripple on the hose filling the swimming pools is lost in the reservoir.  or think of another analogy.  imagine your air compressor with a storage tank the size of a building.  once at pressure, no amount of noise from the pump is going to affect pressure at the tool.  And no tool, regardless of how much air it wastes (within reason) is going to put a dent in your pressure/supply.  

Anyway, here's my normal disclaimer about how I don't know what I'm really talking about and just guessing based on what I know.

But twice, the skeptic in me has been proven wrong by a real quality amp.  And it took me a while to understand how the MA differed from the Torii.  Now I understand better I think (about the power supply and what it means to have those huge ass caps)  and I heard it at the fest.  Ohh well, I'll know better after my MA arrives.
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beowulf
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #263 - 11/07/13 at 05:25:43
 
Quote:
SteveC said,
I mean he writes outrageous things like it keeps the even order harmonics, so it sounds like a set even though it isn't.


This brings up a good point and I don't know if it has been said and/or addressed, but do any of you guys know if the Mystery Amp performs like a Torii III (or IV for that matter) in the even order harmonic side of things?

Also after reading what Steve D said about burrying the regenerators ~ it seems to me (IMO) that this particular amp would benefit more with passive filtering (ŕ la Shunyata) rather than regenerator type tech (ŕ la PS Audio). (Just thinking about that out loud as I have no idea what I'm talking about Grin and they are both out of my price range at this time anyways.)  But if I were to choose one type of tech over the other (without a/b listening) I would probably go with the passive style filtering at first.
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« Last Edit: 11/07/13 at 05:28:02 by beowulf »  
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Lonely Raven
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #264 - 11/07/13 at 05:27:27
 

SteveC, one thing I said that got the smile and the Ah Ha! look from Steve D is when I mentioned more harmonics on the Mystery amp.

Honestly, I have no idea how to put it into words, so I'll just say it like I said it to Steve "I don't know what it is...it's not *more* detail, but there is *more* to the detail that's there...it's harmonics!"

I've not seen anyone who's heard the amp mention that...I think honestly the only reason I even recognized what I was hearing is because I play guitar on vintage and boutique tube amps...and the one thing that really floats my boat is when those rippling harmonics bring the sound to life. A little 8 watt guitar amp filling a room and single notes sounding as full as chords.

Real instruments have those harmonics...it's usually what separates an instrument from a "fine instrument" (or as I say "that's a damn fine instrument").

I don't know, maybe it's old hack for you Torii folks, I've been away from the flock for 12+ years...maybe I'm only now discovering what you all have been enjoying all this time!  :P
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stone_of_tone
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #265 - 11/07/13 at 06:28:51
 
Since my reply #235....what a great openness/discussion.

SteveC, same thing here, what can 2 watts per channel do. Boy, can it do.  I'd find my own discovery and descriptions to be similar to what (he) Steve wrote too. ...not hyperbole IMHO, when the sum of the painful details and hours Steve puts in on development, to come to the Sonic Art he is looking for. I heard it in my SE84CS, CKC & MkIII. I look forward to it in my MA.

I have found nothing, and I mean nothing, that gets me as close to the Music as a Decware Amplifier.

I like what you described LR about the MA... . "I don't know what it is...it's not *more* detail, but there is *more* to the detail that's there...it's harmonics!"
I feel this is what has captivated me about the SE84CS....so, if their is more of a sonic harmonics representation to be had with the Mystery Amp...I can't wait. Inflection, Tone........decay and with clarity...when I had my first experience with the SE84CS in May of 2001 in my Listening Room with my Gear....it is still just as great today.

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maddog07
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #266 - 11/07/13 at 06:48:02
 
I have heard, face to face, Steve speak highly of some "regenerators" - but not all of them.  I believe he is much more skeptical of the multitudes of passive snake-oil, fairy dust and voodoo science "conditioners" that are so prolific in the market.
The good regenerators are expensive, so you get to a place where you should consider if the $$ would be better spent elsewhere in your system.
That said, I have been using PS power plants for a little over 5 years now.  First a Premier and now a P5.  And I have yet to hear any component that did Not sound better when plugged into them - including my Torii III.

I describe the various Decware amps as "different" none necessarily better than the other.  I have now heard them all at the same time, one right after the other at the fest the last two years.  Paired with the right speaks and taking individual preferences and room acoustic into account, pick your favorite sonic flavor of tubes and they will all make the most beautiful music in your room that you have ever experienced.
I for one do not see me ever giving up my Torii III.  But I may pick up a MA later in 2014, after the dust settles - it's never a good idea to be "on point" if you get my meaning.....
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« Last Edit: 11/07/13 at 16:41:28 by maddog07 »  

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SteveC
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #267 - 11/07/13 at 06:56:22
 
LR, I don't have the vocab to describe what I heard also.  I know it was different, and I didn't appreciate it at first as I mentioned before about high res stuff.

It will require more comparisons with my stock torii3 and the MA when it's home.

Disclaimer again: I might be full of it, but I have a working theory.

My impressions of the amp where "ggggrrip" "power" "control" "accuracy". (I think due to the power supply).  That amp has extremely fine control over the signal with loads of power.  To me, this accuracy would lend itself to better rendering of harmonics/overtones/timbre... and that means a violin sounds more 'real'.. clear.. crisp.. (anal? clinical?).   I think the power gives the detail that extra sharpness.  it's not speed like the Zen, it's sharpness.  sigh.  I don't like this vocabulary problem.

I also called it a level of realism... (maybe that's the same as harmonics.. more real 'voice' of instruments. though we were primarily using daft punk at that point. no 'fine' analog instruments there. Smiley  )

anyway... I don't know.  I do know this though:  I look forward to more torii3 vs MA comparisons.  this amp won't replace my stock torii3.  They're different enough.  I know I was going to regret not grabbing the MA when the window of opportunity was open to me for the price.  and I know (trust, believe, know) this amp is going to be as good as every other piece of Decware I have.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #268 - 11/07/13 at 13:09:42
 
I'm really looking forward to your MK III vs Mystery Amp thoughts!

We'll all have plenty of time to develop the vocabulary while having those out-of-body experiences in front of the MA! There are still things I heard that I've not figured out how to describe yet that could be related to harmonics, or the immediate and abundant power you mentioned.

Speaking of which, I went in blind with the MA - I was there (at Decfest) to sell myself on the MK IV, hang out with Steve and meet new people - and I don't think I really read more than a paragraph about the MA as I considered it out of my range and unnecessary (to me) like the Torii Monos. So I didn't have any pre-conceived notions or Steve's words rattling around in my head while I listened.

I'll tell you one thing, the Mystery Amp was the closest to that one-off OTL amp with the MIG 29 tubes I've heard so far.
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« Last Edit: 11/07/13 at 13:10:38 by Lonely Raven »  
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stone_of_tone
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Re: The MYSTERY AMP !
Reply #269 - 11/07/13 at 16:48:25
 
Yes Steve's OTL! I wish I could have gone to this years fest. You suck LR.....you got to hear the OTL.

Really? The OTL was one off the MA... .  Very nice/thanks for the input = more excited to get the Mystery Amp.

Timeline:
Anyway, after much contemplation, I am getting a pair of Acoustic Zen Adagio Speakers. I should have them broke in by the end of December with well over 200 hours on them.

Mystery Amp by mid December or for Christmas? It would be great to launch it on its 200 hour break in Journey/over the Holidays.
I do realize I might not receive it until January however.

August, I will order the Torii MkIV....and have it by this week next year for its break in Journey.

Party on Wayne...party on Garth.    -Stone
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