Forums - Excellent Promo on PS Audio PWD

beowulf

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Re: Excellent Promo on PS Audio PWD
Reply #15 - 02/27/13 at 07:42:12

Quote:

PR
That's a heckuva deal if it sticks, in effect discounting the P5 B stock even further. I will be getting a P5 shortly.

I think something's wrong with their cart, because now I put in (1) PWD MkII "B" stock, (1) Bridge (free bridge with promo), (1) P5 "B" stock, (2) AC10 Power Cables ... put the same code in as above and the total came out to be only $3,290.00 !!!!!!!!!!! LOL, no way that's going down I could see putting an order in and then them calling me the next day saying sorry Smiley

Quote:

But I have also been researching DACs. I was prepared to pull the trigger on the PWD trade-in [I have a puny little computer DAC to trade in], but I realized that if there is anything missing from the PWD for me, it is the inability to play native DSD files [just like the PWT won't play SACD]. And the number of DSD-capable DACs is growing, some beneath even the price point of the discounted PWD. In fact, Teac recently released a sub-$1k DoP version [which I don't want].

Is this for a second system or something because I thought you already had the mighty PWD anyways? Also, do you think DSD may be the next thing? I don't see too much of it around at this time...

Although you've probably seen this (since you've been looking into DSD DACs already), but this may be a useful link for your DSD search ... .

Interesting that the Oppo BDP-105 can play the DSD files, albiet at DSD64, not at Native, but I wonder if there is a big difference between DSD64 and DSD Native?

Not to mention that it seems as if the same Sabre DAC chip used in the Invicta is also used in the Oppo so ... wouldn't the Oppo and Invicta both sound similar due to using the same Sabre chip?

I know I've said this before, but wow, the more you look at the Oppo, although it has some short comings (but no piece of gear is perfect), the more I have to say it's got to be the best-bang-for-the-buck piece of A/V equipment on the planet! Smiley

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« Last Edit: 02/27/13 at 09:18:36 by beowulf »

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Fireblade

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Re: Excellent Promo on PS Audio PWD
Reply #16 - 02/27/13 at 11:08:56

Both Resonessence Labs Invicta (flagship) and Concero (entry level) share the same chip, but they don't sound the same, according to several reviews. There's a lot more to a DAC than the chip. The price difference between these two DACs is huge!

Both in their own particular niche have had rave reviews. IMHO, Resonessence ought to develop a third unit, covering the middle ground DAC specs missing within these two extremes, like a somewhat compromised Invicta with much more to offer over the Concero but at a more affordable price.

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« Last Edit: 02/27/13 at 11:13:23 by Fireblade »

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Pale Rider Seasoned Member Posts: 1271	Re: Excellent Promo on PS Audio PWD Reply #17 - 02/27/13 at 17:33:15 Makes sense Fireblade. The price gap is indeed significant. And while there are less expensive DACs that do native DSD, one thing I would not want to lose is the quality of PCM I already get out of the PWD. The Invicta would clearly impose no such compromise.
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Pale Rider

Seasoned Member

Posts: 1271

Re: Excellent Promo on PS Audio PWD
Reply #18 - 02/27/13 at 18:08:26

@beowulf: Yep, the Oppo is an amazing deal for what it offers. Seriously, if you could only have one front-end, it's the one.

As for DSD, I don't know if it's the next big thing, but the availability of downloadable DSD is s-l-o-w-l-y growing [I read somewhere, maybe at Computer Audiophile, that as many as 500 titles are available], and I have a bunch of ripped SACD files stored on my NAS and my Mac mini server. DSD albums are honking big; all of mine are in the 1.8-3gb range. So the download market is not going to "explode" any time soon.

But the DSD SQ can be breathtaking. I mean truly breathtaking.

As for the second system, yes, I am looking for this box to probably be primary system, with the PWD becoming secondary, probably driving the new Taboo.

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Lon

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Re: Excellent Promo on PS Audio PWD
Reply #19 - 02/27/13 at 18:29:49

I don't know, Oppos really haven't appealed to me, but they do look like big bang for buck if they sound better now than what I heard before, and if you really want computer audio et al. (I don't).

For me, with a lot of time now with both Mk I and Mk II PS A PW DAC, the digital lens in this (and in my PW Transport) makes the difference. I wouldn't change DACs until there's a stand-alone Digital Lens to use in concert with the DAC. Those lenses really make a difference. (And as Greg mentions, coupled to the killer analog output stage of the PW DAC). For Redbook and for my video sources that's the sound still amazes me and I can upgrade around it and receive sonic improvements.

More and more I find vinyl to be the most pleasant listening experience and I anticipate spending more and more time spinning records. Thanks in part to the ZP3. What a machine.

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« Last Edit: 02/27/13 at 18:38:58 by Lon »

Decware:ERR,HR-1,Styx,ZP3,CSP2+(2),Torii Mk III
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Sony BPD-S5000ES
Denon DCD-A100
Rega RP3+TTPSU,white belt and Exact2
Cryoset, VooDoo AudioICs
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Pale Rider

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Posts: 1271

Re: Excellent Promo on PS Audio PWD
Reply #20 - 02/27/13 at 19:50:54

I love Lon for his renewed romance with vinyl. And there but for the grace of God......... Wink

Anyway, I am a huge fan of the PSA Digital Lens. I think it is an unmatched tool for addressing the digital problems of timing, jitter, etc. It is both amazing and no surprise that the original Genesis Digital Lens is still much sought after in the used market, even though it is nearly 20-year-old technology.

Still, the technological assault on timing and jitter continues, and it is not likely to be resolved in only one fashion. That's why I plan to give the Invicta and a couple of other DSD-capable DACs a listen.

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Lon Seasoned Member "Love without guts is worthless!" Philip K. D*ck Posts: 5233	Re: Excellent Promo on PS Audio PWD Reply #21 - 02/27/13 at 20:16:07 I don't blame you, I would if I were at all interested in digital files, but they actually repel me, I'm not ever planning on going that route. Spinning a record I bought thirty-five years ago and it never sounded this good! I am loving vinyl. If I didn't have 15,000 plus cds I'd probably be an analog only guy now.
Back to top	Decware:ERR,HR-1,Styx,ZP3,CSP2+(2),Torii Mk III PS Audio PWT and PWD Mk II,PowerBase (2), PPP,AC-12 pc Sony BPD-S5000ES Denon DCD-A100 Rega RP3+TTPSU,white belt and Exact2 Cryoset, VooDoo AudioICs Mapleshade Samson v2+v3 and 4"platforms Herbie's Audio Lab p IP Logged

Pale Rider Seasoned Member Posts: 1271	Re: Excellent Promo on PS Audio PWD Reply #22 - 02/27/13 at 20:18:46 You know me: vinyl is just another analogue abstraction of the true digital nature of reality.
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Lon Seasoned Member "Love without guts is worthless!" Philip K. D*ck Posts: 5233	Re: Excellent Promo on PS Audio PWD Reply #23 - 02/27/13 at 20:21:45 :D Me, if I were a better musician I'd probably just have a boombox.
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beowulf

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Posts: 241

Re: Excellent Promo on PS Audio PWD
Reply #24 - 02/27/13 at 22:59:41

Quote:

PR
As for the second system, yes, I am looking for this box to probably be primary system, with the PWD becoming secondary, probably driving the new Taboo.

So with the DSD DAC you have in mind you are going back to USB or SPDIF connections rather than over a network for playback? Do you think that may host another set of issues that aren't present using the PWD?

To me one of the strongest selling points for the PWD is the Digital Lens and playing over ethernet to forego the jitter problems associated with USB.

Would you currently be looking for another DAC if the PWD did native DSD? (Look at all these acronyms ... an ordinary person listening in would be like wtf???) Smiley

Quote:

Lon
Spinning a record I bought thirty-five years ago and it never sounded this good! I am loving vinyl. If I didn't have 15,000 plus cds I'd probably be an analog only guy now.

Does anybody think that the pleasure we get out of vinyl may be due to vinyl (being analog) hasn't been chopped up into 1's and 0's, so it is the most unadulterated form of music still?

Perhaps there is something we notice subconsciously about digital playback that makes it less soothing even though there are peaks that vinyl can't seem to match?

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« Last Edit: 02/27/13 at 23:00:25 by beowulf »

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Pale Rider

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Posts: 1271

Re: Excellent Promo on PS Audio PWD
Reply #25 - 02/27/13 at 23:39:18

Lon quipped:

Quote:

Me, if I were a better musician I'd probably just have a boombox.

Good words Lon; wouldn't we all!

beowulf asked:

Quote:

So with the DSD DAC you have in mind you are going back to USB or SPDIF connections rather than over a network for playback? Do you think that may host another set of issues that aren't present using the PWD?

To me one of the strongest selling points for the PWD is the Digital Lens and playing over ethernet to forego the jitter problems associated with USB.

Would you currently be looking for another DAC if the PWD did native DSD? (Look at all these acronyms ... an ordinary person listening in would be like wtf???)

I have narrowed my DSD-capable DAC down to two: the Mytek and the Invicta [price gap of over 100%]. I wish PS Audio would roadmap a DSD-capable PWD, but Paul has explained several times he does not intend to. Sooooooo, looks like we're headed that way. I already have almost 300gb of DSD files, so this is starting to become a no-brainer. So, anyway, one answer is that, if PWD had a DSD-native roadmap, i wouldn't even be considering this.

The other part of your question, the connection, is interesting. Invicta can use SDXD cards, which theoretically can hold 2tb of files, but commercially, I think only 256gb ones are available, and they are pretty expensive. So, yes, in all likelihood, USB or SPDIF will be the connector. I wish I had more confidence in the Lumin network player, because from a feature set, it is pretty complete.

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Lon

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Re: Excellent Promo on PS Audio PWD
Reply #26 - 02/28/13 at 01:39:56

beowulf wrote on 02/27/13 at 22:59:41:

Does anybody think that the pleasure we get out of vinyl may be due to vinyl (being analog) hasn't been chopped up into 1's and 0's, so it is the most unadulterated form of music still?

Perhaps there is something we notice subconsciously about digital playback that makes it less soothing even though there are peaks that vinyl can't seem to match?

There's something to that I think. Just as there's something to the possibility that SET sounds so good because the signal is not split and amplified as it is in push-pull.

The way that the phono signal is created with the needle and amplifying magnets or coils, the rotating platter that spins at a more imperfect speed. . . it really can playback some amazing sound. I respond to the music more in many cases. Why that is I don't know. I'm very used to the sound from childhood and adolescence and early adult life? It's less mysterious a process to me than digital is and thus perhaps more human or realistic, natural feel to it? The micro-fumes from the vinyl vaporizing under the diamond tip has a soporific effect?

I don't know, but I like it.

I do know that one reason it sounds so good to me right now is that I have a decent turntable going into Steve's amazing ZP3. (That signal chain of ZP3 into CSP2+ into Torii Mk III --- Whoa!) If I could have somehow had a ZP3 in '87 or so I probably would not have bought a cd player!

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« Last Edit: 02/28/13 at 01:45:29 by Lon »

Decware:ERR,HR-1,Styx,ZP3,CSP2+(2),Torii Mk III
PS Audio PWT and PWD Mk II,PowerBase (2), PPP,AC-12 pc
Sony BPD-S5000ES
Denon DCD-A100
Rega RP3+TTPSU,white belt and Exact2
Cryoset, VooDoo AudioICs
Mapleshade Samson v2+v3 and 4"platforms
Herbie's Audio Lab p

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Pale Rider

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Posts: 1271

Re: Excellent Promo on PS Audio PWD
Reply #27 - 03/02/13 at 15:07:26

I got a chance to hear some native DSD recordings on a fine system through the fairly reasonably priced Mytek 192, and I have to admit, it was very impressive. Whether there is enough prospect for commercial success of the format remains to be seen, but there is enough good material out there to make one want to play it. And I have almost 300gb of DSD files that I would now prefer to play natively, rather than converted to PCM as I now do.

Based on the current review of the exaSound e20 in The Absolute Sound, I have added it to my list. That review sums up nicely the significant source material advantage that DSD files have over even hi-res PCM files.

All these mid-to-higher-end DAC makers offer 30-day in-home trials, which seems a good compromise to address the widening product base, in the face of a shrinking retail market and networks. I plan to start with the exaSound.

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Fireblade

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Posts: 628

Re: Excellent Promo on PS Audio PWD
Reply #28 - 03/02/13 at 15:35:49

Pale Rider,

You may already be aware of it but Invicta will be supporting DSD quite soon, according to the report in the following link:

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2013/01/resonessence-labs-invicta-software-upd...

Expensive, but this DAC seems unbeatable ...

Units that ship after 14th January 2013 will be equipped with version 4.0.0 of the Resonessance software which allows for DSD playback over USB and via the SD card reader.

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« Last Edit: 03/02/13 at 15:38:16 by Fireblade »

Laptop-Foobar2000-Wasapi Ev//WD 1.5Tb HDD//Audioquest Forest USB cbls//HRT MS II+ USB-DAC//Decware Silver Ref IC's//Decware Mini Torii SE//Kimber Kable spkr cbls//Decware DM945's//Velodyne DLS 3500//BJC SUB Cbls//Tripp Lite 500 Isolation Trnsf.//Jellyfish P. Cord

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Pale Rider Seasoned Member Posts: 1271	Re: Excellent Promo on PS Audio PWD Reply #29 - 03/03/13 at 20:27:08 Fireblade, thanks. As noted above, the Invicta is already on my list. And it does already support native DSD.
Back to top	Decware: Ultra \| Torii MKIII [2] \| SE84ZS \| Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ \| Baetis Revolution \| PWD DAC MKII \| Lumin Network Player \| Mytek 192 \| Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate \| Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs \| LCD-2 & other cans IP Logged