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different capacitors on tweeter? (Read 4780 times)
tgarden
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different capacitors on tweeter?
02/10/13 at 21:04:26
 
Just curious...Has anybody out there, replaced the caps on their speakers with a different type?  I'm guessing the originals are Solens.

Thanks!
Mike in Seattle area
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will
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Re: different capacitors on tweeter?
Reply #1 - 02/11/13 at 16:19:06
 
My MG944s originally had solens. I don't know what Bob is putting in them now. I have Clarity SAs in mine for the moment, but I rarely use the speakers so have not gone deep with them.

Since then I did a fair bit of exploration with my main speakers...HR-Ones, which use the same tweeter and mid/bass driver on the front. For them I tried Clarity SA, Auricaps, Obbligato Premium and Mundorf Supreme. I found the Auricaps sort of falsely warm with a slightly electronic and restricted sense. The Clarity SA are really revealing and have a great sense of flow and clarity, but finally seemed a bit in the face and overly clear...a bit too too? The Obbligatos were very good...open, laid back...smooth, I liked them a lot.

I soldered them all together and ran them in a second system for 100 hours which was not enough for the Mundorfs. After the Supremes burned in fully (150-200) I liked them the best with a very solid, good flow, accurate, and very smooth presentation that can sound a little understated clarity-wise compared to the others. All the informations is there, but it "feels" comparatively less bright...I think more real overall though. So I ended up playing with bypass caps liking a lot of them but finally settling (till I play with rolling again) on a very cheap, but very good .1 PIO K40Y-9. EDIT: the bypass is 1.0, not .1...sorry

Hope this is of some use.

Will
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« Last Edit: 02/12/13 at 05:47:40 by will »  

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tgarden
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Re: different capacitors on tweeter?
Reply #2 - 02/11/13 at 16:50:34
 
Hi Will,  Thanks for all your input!

Based on what you said,  I'm going to explore using the Mundorf Supreme caps.  They sound very nice, a good fit for the Decware "sound".

My MG944s were built in 2008.  They have the plinth base with the older style tweeter.  I'm going to ask Bob for his comments on this particular version.

Thanks again for all your comments.  It saves me a lot of time.

Mike
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will
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Re: different capacitors on tweeter?
Reply #3 - 02/12/13 at 01:52:09
 
I don't recall the date on mine...but I do have the plinth. My tweeters are the same as the HR-Ones as far as I can discern. I look forward to what Bob says and your thoughts on the caps.

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will
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Re: different capacitors on tweeter?
Reply #4 - 02/12/13 at 06:06:50
 
Mike,

As I think more about it...there is a pretty big difference in the HR-One even if the tweeter is the same as your 944. The rated cap size on the HR is 3.3 and if I remember correctly, my 944 had a 1.0??? So the bypass I used is as big as your whole cap if I got it right, but I am starting from a much higher value. Probably pushing the limit a bit with the bypass too, but to me. In my room, especially with the Mundorf being smooth, liquid, and solid, and less notably bright this sounds great.

Just more food for thought...makes me wonder about bypassing with a .1 or .22 on top of the 1.0 Mundorf if you like the general tone of the Solen 1.0 (if that is what yours is.)

Alternately, I think the Obbligato Premium was more musical and organic than the Solen... but not as notably toward the warm/dark as the Mundorf. There is something about that Mundorf Supreme though. Really well designed from micro detail to smoothness and solidity to me...But then i used the Obbligatos quite happily for while too! It is smooth, liquid and sweet with more sense of brightness, but not too bright, and no grain to me...more like Italy than Germany engineering-wise???
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« Last Edit: 02/12/13 at 06:10:05 by will »  

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tgarden
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Re: different capacitors on tweeter?
Reply #5 - 02/13/13 at 18:30:27
 
Will,  Thanks for your thoughts.  I have not talked to Bob yet, but just left a messaage at Decware to get his number.

I do rember reading a few years ago, that the value of the cap in the  MG944 is 1.0uF.  At least, that's what I remember.  The Obbligatos's do sound like they would be very nice, but I'm still leaning towards the Mundorf Supremes.

I'll be curious to see if Bob has an opinion about those two caps.   I see that Mundorf Supremes run about $36 for two, which is little to pay for an upgrade on a speaker that now costs about $1450 (I paid just under $1000 for mine in 2008).

Oh, and I will ask Bob about bypassing with a .1 or a .22 if I end up using the Mundorf.  I'm not sure how to do it, but I imagine it can't be too difficult.
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« Last Edit: 02/13/13 at 18:31:57 by tgarden »  
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will
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Re: different capacitors on tweeter?
Reply #6 - 02/13/13 at 20:43:51
 
Now that you mention it, I am a little confused. It has been a while, and I am not sure I "had It" in the first place.

But I believe you will find a bolt on the inside of your binding post unit that has the cap taped to it and soldered between the binding post + and the tweeter +.

Now the part that is a bit confusing to me.

I believe that if you have a 1.0 cap, and solder in parallel (across it/bypass) a .1 cap, that you end up with a value of 1.1 for the cap combination...so you have made the cap go a bit lower into the low high/upper-mids.

Then...If I am not mistaken, the higher value cap (1.0) is doing the big cap job across its value range in the highs, but the lower value one (.1) is only working the very top of the range, so you have better flow in that range...the combo making it sound a bit fresher. I think this is why bypassing a less than stellar cap with a very good one can make the average between the two SQ-wise as close to the good cap as the other.

Please correct me if this is off....Anyone???
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« Last Edit: 02/14/13 at 00:24:28 by will »  

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ZYGI
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Re: different capacitors on tweeter?
Reply #7 - 02/14/13 at 00:34:14
 
Hi Guys, I just saw this....

Mike I PM'ed you with my number...

Will, Would you PM me your number, I owe you a call.

My favorite cap on the MG's is the Mundorf Supreme cap. The Supreme has a lot of detail, and removes all the edge  from the tweeter. I have also tried and like the Mundorf Tin Foil which give a bit more detail, but doesn't remove all the edginess.

Will
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Fireblade
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Re: different capacitors on tweeter?
Reply #8 - 02/14/13 at 01:22:52
 
ZYGI,

Do you remember what type of Mundorf Caps I got from you as an upgrade on my new DM945's (March or April 2012)? I never asked you that at the time. Thanks!
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ZYGI
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Re: different capacitors on tweeter?
Reply #9 - 02/14/13 at 02:45:33
 
David,

Mundorf Supremes 3.3's

Zygi
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Fireblade
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Re: different capacitors on tweeter?
Reply #10 - 02/14/13 at 10:31:26
 
Great! Thanks for the info, Bob.   Smiley
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« Last Edit: 02/14/13 at 10:32:14 by Fireblade »  

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tgarden
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Re: different capacitors on tweeter?
Reply #11 - 02/15/13 at 02:26:43
 
Will, I spoke to Bob earlier today.  He's a great guy, very informative and fun to talk to.

Anyway,  he confirmed what he said in the post above, about the Mundorf Supreme making a big positive difference in the MG944.

He couldn't remember what the cap value is, but it's something like 1.5 or 2.0uF.  So, anybody considering this mod, should unscrew the binding post first, and take a look at the existing cap to see what the value is.

No need for a bypass cap (simpler is better), just solder in the Mundorf Supreme and then cut the leads on the existing Solen to remove it.

I'm going to order some Mundorfs soon and make the switch.  I have a friend who is skilled with a soldering iron, so I'm going to have him do the soldering.
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will
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Re: different capacitors on tweeter?
Reply #12 - 02/15/13 at 04:08:48
 
Great Tgarden,

I agree, Bob is a great guy and great resource too. Hope you like the Mundorfs, and remember they take a long time to come out fully. I look forward to what you think.

What Bob said about the bypass makes sense...I agree to start without, and if it awesome, you are good. And if not, you have options to bypass with a Mundorf or a better cap at some point if you ever want to bring out a little more detail and air. Interestingly, a bypass brings out more than just the top, since some aspect the upper information can be present as part of seemingly low information.....

I have done a fair bit of exploring with my HR-Ones with damping and caps...at this point they are adjusted to my system, tastes and room, which is the cool thing about rolling stuff to me. They are fundamentally the same, but not the same as they came ....personalized.... but I love to mess around with this stuff!
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tgarden
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Re: different capacitors on tweeter?
Reply #13 - 02/15/13 at 04:20:41
 
Will,  Thanks for the ideas about bypassing with a Mundorf or better cap. What you said makes a lot of sense.  I'm going to upgrade the Solen to a Mundorf first, get several hundred hours on it, and then decide what to do about a bypass.

So, If the value of the Mundorf I install, is  a 2.0, would the size of the bypass cap be something like .2 to .4?

Mike
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will
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Re: different capacitors on tweeter?
Reply #14 - 02/15/13 at 04:50:40
 
Sounds like a good plan to me tgarden.

I am no expert, but from what I have read, the general rule is 10% or less for a bypass (to keep from messing with the phase too much???). I seem to have broken that rule with mine, and love the presentation top to bottom, the soundstage is fully saturated and realistic, all the ambient information reads brilliantly near and far...creating space for the players along with all the sense of the recording room that extends beyond my walls....etc, but my speakers are tweaked....well really, at this point my whole system/room is tweaked progressively together and probably bends some people's rules a lot, would not be believable to others, depending on who's rules they are...I mean I use some stuff that works for me that would be hoodoo to some.

All I want is realistic sound that engages me fully in the music.....And I am willing to experiment, in fact enjoy it. But I do some serious research before buying anything, and only buy odd stuff on a trial basis, so I am covered for the most part. The research must work though....I rarely return stuff, but the option is important to me.

The thing is....I need my room to still seem for the most part like a livingroom/den or whatever you might call it. It is a room we live in.... joined in every way to the dining area and kitchen...our main hang out altogether Wink
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« Last Edit: 02/15/13 at 04:59:25 by will »  

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