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"ADDING WEIGHT & BODY" (Read 20576 times)
stone_of_tone
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #75 - 04/09/13 at 05:22:13
 
I had to do it. I moved the Klipsch RF-7 II's to my 2.1.1 Rig (w/MBM 12 & Velo Sub). You can drive them with 2 watts/ch as DBC can attest to. However, boy do they love power! .....running off my Emotiva XPA-2. I am going to enjoy them in this Rig for awhile and then get them in to the Listening Room eventually (they are big and heavy when moving them by yourself)...along with the return of the MBM 12.

I put the RF-52 II's back in the Bedroom System to stay. They do a nice job in this BRoom Rig setup.   Cheers, Stone
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« Last Edit: 04/09/13 at 05:24:25 by stone_of_tone »  

Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
360 degree Rm Treats
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stone_of_tone
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #76 - 04/10/13 at 17:08:44
 
The RF-7 II's spent Monday & Tuesday night in the 2.1.1 Rig for some Solid State Action with my Emotiva XPA-2 = Fun. However, late last night it was time already to hand the Torch back to my Polk SRS SDA 1.2's with the Emo Amp and HSU MBM 12. So I moved them in to the Listening Room System and the RF-7's are  lets say, high efficiency Speakers I can live with.

The 7's can't layer Tone and Decay of notes, or provide the sense of Air around the Instruments as well as my Polk LS-90's can with my Kimber Select 1030 IC and Kimber Select 3033 Speaker Cable with SuperZen CKC or SE84CS...but they are fun none- the-less for the extra volume, when I want to crank it up a little more! I have each pair of Speakers configured in the room to not hurt the other sonically and I can switch Speakers via my Banana Plugs between the Pairs on the Fly.

The RF-7's certainly benefit from No Negative Feedback and Even Order Harmonic's. Like Paul Klipsch said: "what the world needs is a good 7 watt Tube Amplifier". Steve D certainly makes them from 2 to now 60 watt Mono Blocks. (I prefer the Original Svetlana SV83 Pentode's run in Triode with No Negative Feedback...Steve is Genius for capitalizing on this Tube).

My Listening Room size and Acoustic Treatments are yeilding good Bass from the 7's. I am not inclined to bring the MBM 12 back in any time soon. I am loving what the MBM 12 is doing with my Sources in the Emotiva Rig with the SDA 1.2 Speakers.

Anyway, the MBM is a worth while Product and I use it most of the time in the Big Rig with the main Velo Sub off. It integrates very well and the Volume Knob is at my left hand reach to adjust for different Sources. Less is more with this wonderful Mid-Bass device.  

Cheers, Stone of Tone (off now to put gas in the Snow Blower for my pending 6 to 8 inches we are to receive today...Spring/what Spring?)
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« Last Edit: 04/10/13 at 17:14:41 by stone_of_tone »  

Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
360 degree Rm Treats
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #77 - 10/21/13 at 19:40:18
 
Thanks for this review DBC.  I find it ironic there is so little in the way of reviews on the MBM-12.  I added a pair near-field behind the couch to compliment my pair of Hsu VTF-2 MK3 subs up front.  Amazing difference in performance, especially in music performance.  Thanks again for taking the time to write this up, its one of the few reviews for these MBMs.
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JVC RS60 & DaLite High Power 106". Secondary: Panasonic Viera TC-P65ST30.
Paradigm Studio 20 (5) & ADP590 (2). Hsu VTF-2 MK3 (2) & MBM-12 MK2 (2).
Yamaha RXA3010 & Emotiva XPA5. Oppo BDP93, Xbox 360 Elite, Integra DPT1.
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DBC
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #78 - 10/22/13 at 00:00:17
 
TypeA,

Glad to hear that your MBM-12 purchase is adding so much to the enjoyment of your system. You nailed it, these are great with Home Theater but what they do with music has to be heard to be believed.

Based on your equipment list I guess you have the MBM-12's connected via line level (interconnect) connections?? I was just wondering if you have any detectable hum from the MBM's when music is on pause?? Also was curious where you have the volume knob set on each unit.

I have my MBM's connected via speaker level connections and in the beginning had the volume knob set at about 35%, any higher and the bass would get a little boomy. Took me a while to realize I had a ground loop and low level 60 hz hum creating the boomy effect.

I was able to cure the ground loop, get rid of the 60 hz hum and increase the MBM volume setting to 50% with very positive effects. Just thought I would mention this in case you have any detectable hum.

In any event in my conversations with Dr. Hsu he indicated the potential for ground loops (60 hz AC hum) is minimal when using line level connections. Just wanted to confirm your method of connection and that it is hum free.

Enjoy

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Oppo BDP-83SE, SE84CKC amp, Klipsch RF-7 mains, HSU MBM-12 MK2 mid bass module, HSU ULS-15 sub
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #79 - 10/22/13 at 02:26:10
 
Yes the Yamaha 3010 processor has dual independent low level sub outputs and thats what Im using for both the subs and MBMs.  The outputs are split and the Yammy is set for a front/rear sub configuration.  Good phase was a priority for me and luckily YPAO got my distances very accurate, especially considering Im running a pair off each output.  Crossover from satellites to low levels are higher than Ive ever preferred but after much experimenting with 80 Hz I found that 90 Hz just works better.  The VTFs take over at 45 Hz to prevent phasing and reinforcement as much as possible.  

My gain is really determined by YPAO.  Both subs and MBMs are well below 25%, like 15%,  otherwise YPAO would come back during room calibration and say the gain is too high and it cant lower them enough. Im hyper sensitive to localization and yet even near field with a 90 Hz crossover I get no localization and excellent performance.  Sounds very natural, mellow and with no boom at all, very hard to argue with what YPAO does in the gain department.  However I can see running a higher gain if they were far field along my front stage.  Luckily Ive never had any buzzing.  I listen to my system pretty loud with both music and theater so I think Im good, free of any ground loop issues, thanks for the heads up.    
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« Last Edit: 10/22/13 at 02:28:02 by TypeA »  

JVC RS60 & DaLite High Power 106". Secondary: Panasonic Viera TC-P65ST30.
Paradigm Studio 20 (5) & ADP590 (2). Hsu VTF-2 MK3 (2) & MBM-12 MK2 (2).
Yamaha RXA3010 & Emotiva XPA5. Oppo BDP93, Xbox 360 Elite, Integra DPT1.
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shold350
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #80 - 11/08/13 at 03:35:47
 
This my first post to the forum and my first venture into stereo gear in a long time. I purchased a SE341.3 amp, Decware speaker cables/interconnects, Denon turntable, Oppo BPD105, HSU MBM12-MK2, and a soon to arrive pair of MG944's to play it all through. I have not heard any of my system yet. I have been connecting all of my components as they arrive and the last piece was the HSU MBM12. I am using some Straight Wire double shielded cables running from the line out jacks on the amp to the MBM and am getting a low hum from the module when it is powered up without the amp being turned on (haven't powered it up at all not having speakers yet). I tried plugging the MBM directly into the wall and through my surge protector with no difference. Powering it up without the line cables plugged in I get no hum at all so it is not an internal issue with the module as far as I can tell. The HSU paperwork says it is a grounding issue withe interconnects or the amp. Any ideas as to how to solve this would be welcome. I read earlier in this post of some similar issues when using multiple subs and modules but this may be a different scenario. I am truly excited to hear all of the promise that this system holds just need to get it right. Thanks from a newbie
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Decware SE34I.3 Rachael amp, CSP3, Denon 300F TT with Ortofon 2M red cartridge, Oppo BDP 105,HSU Mid Bass Module 12 MK2, HR1's, Decware ZSTYX speaker cables, Decware silver reference interconnects, LG 60" plasma
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DBC
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #81 - 11/08/13 at 14:38:24
 
shold350,

This is how I isolated and solved the problem. Get yourself some test leads with alligator clips on each end, I use these from Radio Shack:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062622

They come in a 4-pack so you can clip them together to create a single longer lead as required.

Clip one end of the test lead on to any of the toggle switches on your MBM amp. Clip the other end of the test lead on to the case of the surge protector that you have all your other gear connected to. This will connect the chassis of your MBM amp to the same earth ground as everything else in your system.

If your surge protector is properly grounded, then the MBM chassis will be on the same earth ground as all your other equipment and this should eliminate the hum. Not the most elegant solution but it is very effective.

If you have the MBM power cord connected to a surge protector be sure you are using one of the "High Current Outlets" on the surge protector. The MBM needs a good bit of juice since it has a 350 watt internal amp.

You probably noticed the HSU MBM has a 2-prong power cord (no earth ground). I discussed this curious choice with Dr. Hsu. My understanding is they went this way to minimize Hum issues associated with Poor Earth Ground Wiring found in many homes. If your home wiring does not have a good ground to earth to begin with then refrigerators and other appliances can feed electrical noise back into your system through the earth ground.

Bottom line is if you want a completely Hum Free (Ground Loop Free) audio system you have to have a home that is properly wired to earth ground to begin with. Second, to eliminate any potential Ground Loop between components within your audio system each component chassis must be properly connected to the same earth ground. Connecting the ground jumper as I outline above should do that.

Let me know how you make out.
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« Last Edit: 11/08/13 at 15:18:32 by DBC »  

Oppo BDP-83SE, SE84CKC amp, Klipsch RF-7 mains, HSU MBM-12 MK2 mid bass module, HSU ULS-15 sub
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shold350
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #82 - 11/09/13 at 19:37:35
 
When you mention clip the test lead to the case of the surge protector do you mean the exterior plastic shell or to one of the ground post on an unused receptacle?
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Decware SE34I.3 Rachael amp, CSP3, Denon 300F TT with Ortofon 2M red cartridge, Oppo BDP 105,HSU Mid Bass Module 12 MK2, HR1's, Decware ZSTYX speaker cables, Decware silver reference interconnects, LG 60" plasma
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #83 - 11/09/13 at 23:32:52
 
Shold350, Sorry for the confusion. I have three audio surge protection strips and all three have metal housings (cases). The metal housing is connected to earth ground per the electrical schematic provided in the owners manual.

If your surge protection strip has an all plastic outer housing clipping the MBM ground jumper wire to the plastic will not establish a path to earth ground. If your surge protection strip has threaded coax connectors for cable surge protection (see photo) clipping to the threaded outer portion will work also. In the photo the green jumper wire from MBM toggle switch is connected to the surge strip via the outer threaded portion of the coax connector.

The ground post of any unused receptacle will work also but I don't think you will be able to clip to it ??

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« Last Edit: 11/09/13 at 23:36:22 by DBC »  

Oppo BDP-83SE, SE84CKC amp, Klipsch RF-7 mains, HSU MBM-12 MK2 mid bass module, HSU ULS-15 sub
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shold350
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #84 - 11/12/13 at 13:03:46
 
Thanks for the images. I changed my connection from the line outs to the MBM to using the speaker posts going to the MBM and the hum is all but gone. I can hear it only if I turn the volume up almost to max on the MBM. I'm still not sure how it will sound when it gets a real signal from the amp. Thanks again for all of your help with this
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Decware SE34I.3 Rachael amp, CSP3, Denon 300F TT with Ortofon 2M red cartridge, Oppo BDP 105,HSU Mid Bass Module 12 MK2, HR1's, Decware ZSTYX speaker cables, Decware silver reference interconnects, LG 60" plasma
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DBC
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #85 - 11/19/13 at 01:02:48
 
shold350,

Glad to help. When do you expect to receive your new speakers?

Phil has basically the same gear and is getting good results (see attached link for comments).

http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1361290817/15#15
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Oppo BDP-83SE, SE84CKC amp, Klipsch RF-7 mains, HSU MBM-12 MK2 mid bass module, HSU ULS-15 sub
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shold350
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #86 - 11/19/13 at 01:16:23
 
DBC,
I'm not sure of the date for the mains but it should be fairly soon. My only concern is that I am having to place the mbm to one side of my couch which is the only seating in my  bedroom converted to a small media/listening room. I just don't have enough wall space with my setup to put it out in front with the mains. I hope that with some volume adjustments through the dual controls on the amp and the one on the mbm I can find a good compromise. I am sure it will still sound better than any thing I've had since an old rack mounted Nikko setup I had back in 1979 running a pair of JBL L-36's.
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« Last Edit: 11/19/13 at 02:25:08 by shold350 »  

Decware SE34I.3 Rachael amp, CSP3, Denon 300F TT with Ortofon 2M red cartridge, Oppo BDP 105,HSU Mid Bass Module 12 MK2, HR1's, Decware ZSTYX speaker cables, Decware silver reference interconnects, LG 60" plasma
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #87 - 01/03/14 at 17:54:20
 
Bump
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Oppo BDP-83SE, SE84CKC amp, Klipsch RF-7 mains, HSU MBM-12 MK2 mid bass module, HSU ULS-15 sub
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shold350
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #88 - 01/07/14 at 00:29:45
 
I received the MG944's a few days ago and have been playing with the system as much as possible. Overall I am blow away by the quality of all of the components in my system. It is by far the nicest system I have ever owned and I am just getting started on the break-in period.

I have run into what seems to be somewhat of a common problem however. I am getting some pretty noticeable hum.  I only have two sources coming from my Decware input selector box into the amp. One is a Denon turntable and the other is an Oppo 105 BDP. When I remove the interconnects from the Oppo the hum is eliminated. All of my components are run through a low dollar surge protector which is going into a standard wall socket. I have tried switching plugs around. Moving the Oppo/Amp off of the surge protector individually and plugging them directly into the wall with no change in the hum (didn't really expect to make a difference). I don't have the budget to have a special circuit created just for this room or the buy any exotic type of power conditioner. Any suggestions as to a reasonable remedy would be welcomed. I have a Rachel amp and have read in the forum that their may be a difference in the grounding on these compared to other Decware amps. I am no engineer and don't know if this actually accurate just trying to get it quiet. I have also noticed that dvd soundtracks do not play as loud as music cd's. Having to turn up the volume to play some concert dvd's just makes the humming a larger problem. I spoke to Steve about this issue and he has sent me some 6N2P input tubes to bump up the gain.    
I will try to post some pics of my new system over the next few days.
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Decware SE34I.3 Rachael amp, CSP3, Denon 300F TT with Ortofon 2M red cartridge, Oppo BDP 105,HSU Mid Bass Module 12 MK2, HR1's, Decware ZSTYX speaker cables, Decware silver reference interconnects, LG 60" plasma
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #89 - 01/07/14 at 17:14:16
 
shold350,

I have the Oppo BDP-83SE, DVD's & Blue Ray's typically have lower output levels than CD's (have to turn the volume knob up as you describe). No hum in my system with higher volume settings.

Is the Hum coming primarily from your main speakers, mid bass module or both? Any 60 hz hum from a ground loop would become more audible as you increase the MBM volume knob setting.

Since hum disappears when removing the Oppo interconnects it sounds like a ground loop between the Oppo and Amp. This suggests the Amp power cord and Oppo power cord are not seeing the same clean connection to earth ground when plugged in? Say for example the power cord earth ground connection on the Oppo is not as good as the power cord earth ground connection on your Amp. What happens is that any AC in the Oppo chassis (that would normally flow harmlessly to ground through the Oppo power cord) instead finds an easier path to ground through the interconnects and Amp power cord.

First thing I would do is go Oppo Direct to Amp, Amp to Mains and mid bass module turned OFF. If hum is still present disconnect speaker level connections to the mid bass module to eliminate it entirely. If hum persists try connecting a test lead from the Amp chassis to wall socket earth ground. Do the same for the Oppo if necessary.


This link might give you some more ideas: http://www.audioholics.com/home-theater-connection/ground-loops-eliminating-syst...
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Oppo BDP-83SE, SE84CKC amp, Klipsch RF-7 mains, HSU MBM-12 MK2 mid bass module, HSU ULS-15 sub
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