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"ADDING WEIGHT & BODY" (Read 14838 times)
marky
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #45 - 03/15/13 at 22:06:56
 
....have put  concrete slabs between speakers and floorboards,
yes,...more bass firmness....and a little more subtle detail...
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« Last Edit: 03/15/13 at 22:10:47 by marky »  
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DBC
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #46 - 03/17/13 at 11:11:10
 
Stone,

I think you will find a single MBM to be effective. I have experimented with a single MBM in my room and it does a very nice job.

I have never experimented with the MBM placed close to the listening position as HSU suggests. I can see this being effective for Home Theater but not so sure about Music ?? Two potential issues; First being localization (hearing sound coming from the MBM), and Second the potential for phasing issues between the mains and MBM ??

I found after months of experimentation that the MBM sounds best in my system with the MBM crossover set at the max 150 hz setting. The MBM is actually playing over (augmenting) my RF-7 mains that go down to 50 hz. This being the case I would think the best MBM location for music would be somewhere between the mains to avoid potential phasing issues (holes in the mid-bass region) ??

I look forward to your findings since I have not experimented with near field placement.

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Oppo BDP-83SE, SE84CKC amp, Klipsch RF-7 mains, HSU MBM-12 MK2 mid bass module, HSU ULS-15 sub
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stone_of_tone
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #47 - 03/18/13 at 04:49:01
 
Thanks DBC, phasing and localization would be an issue with the MBM close to me. I will start at 150 hz as you suggested, while working on placement.

It is going to be fun using the MBM in 3 different Systems, somewhere between the mains and trying nearfield positioning and variations of... .
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« Last Edit: 03/18/13 at 04:58:10 by stone_of_tone »  

Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
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Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
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stone_of_tone
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #48 - 03/19/13 at 16:23:39
 
...Out for delivery on Friday 3/22

A lot of good info between 90 & 150hz...should be interesting.  

Just a reminder this is NOT a Subwoofer (for anyone skiming the thread):
"The MBM-12 MK2 woofer is optimized for mid to upper bass reproduction - a very light cone, low inductance voice coil, and a strong magnet yields extremely quick response with high efficiency. It demonstrates excellent micro-dynamics and an extremely wide dynamic range that no single subwoofer can provide".

marky: good point since it is down firing....I will throw a piece of plywood under it after hearing it first off the carpet.
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« Last Edit: 03/19/13 at 16:32:21 by stone_of_tone »  

Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
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marky
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #49 - 03/19/13 at 19:44:35
 
might be a bonus Stone, I was just getting my front firers off the floorboards, nothing to do with subs...then I thought, a few slabs on top of a sub might...  :)
The MBM sounds interesting. When you dont use subs you think you have weight and body enough. Detail of mid lows and up from a unit (not sub) well you know, it`s allways interesting to find out what lies hidden and can be brought out without comprimise. Looking forward hearing of your trials, following DBC`s good low down on them.
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« Last Edit: 03/19/13 at 19:47:27 by marky »  
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DBC
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #50 - 03/19/13 at 22:53:00
 
marky, good point regarding the MBM being down firing on carpet. I guess it depends on the carpet and padding materials as far as what frequency range and how much acoustic energy is absorbed ??  

I have hardwood flooring in my listening room and can tell you a lot of energy gets transferred to the floor with the MBM volume set at about 55%. My guess is that if you loose some energy on carpet that you can compensate by simply increasing the MBM volume a tad ??  

Stone; earlier in this thread I covered MBM grounding. The MBM has a 2 prong power cord (no third ground prong) so it is not really grounded. I think HSU does this to avoid ground loop issues that can crop up from plugging equipment into multiple home power outlets that have less than ideal common grounding.

Early on I discussed a hum that I had with Dr. Hsu and he explained they expected virtually everyone to use the line level input connections into the MBM. I gathered from our conversation that HSU relies on the line level interconnect ground lead back to the power amp to serve as the MBM ground back to the power amp ground (common ground).

Since I have my MBM's connected via speaker level connection there is no ground to the power outlet (two prong power cord) or the amp other than the speaker wires back toe the power amp. This created a slight hum at the main speakers. I eliminated the hum by connecting a jumper wire with alligator clips on each end from one of the MBM toggle switches to the case on the surge protector where my amp and other equipment are connected and grounded.

The ground hum I encountered could only be heard at close range and then it was faint (with cd player on pause). But when I finally grounded the MBM to the surge protector it really cleaned things up further during music playback.

The ground loop was laying down 60 Hz noise that the MBM, mains or both were reproducing (amplifying) during music playback. It was similar to a 60 Hz room induced peak, could only turn Up the MBM volume so much before the peak started to make things a bit boomy. Grounded the MBM plate amp to the surge protector everything else was connected to and I was able to increase the MBM volume further with no more tendency to get boomy.

You can get a package of four 3 foot jumpers at Radio Shack for about 5 bucks.
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Oppo BDP-83SE, SE84CKC amp, Klipsch RF-7 mains, HSU MBM-12 MK2 mid bass module, HSU ULS-15 sub
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stone_of_tone
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #51 - 03/23/13 at 14:35:38
 
DBC, thanks, I do have a low level faint hum at close range and I will get some Alligator Clips from R-Shack. (Using Spkr level conn too).

I love what I'm hearing from the MBM. The unit on carpet has no issues. I have it set at 150 hz and in sealed mode just a line under half volume for my room. I have it 5 feet out from the right corner wall-along the wall far enough away from me not to cause localization.  

This is not a Subwoofer for sure! The MBM overlays so well in this hertz range. It is tuned to be articulate (fast) and subjectively dances along in tune with those upper mid bass lines. It thus, helps present an even larger soundstage with that little more weight I was craving (and at low to medium volumes)!

HSU markets the MBM for HT. The MBM needs to be sold to 2 channel music lovers with Tube Amps! Other than figuring out your placement....it does not need a long break in (you know when you hook this thing up/it has the Mojo IMHO)...even though it should benefit from that over time too.

Just a quick word on fit and finish. I ordered the Rosenut. The unit has bull nose corners like the sheet rock in my house....absolutely beautiful. The Bash Amp is recessed/routered in....very nice. The cone is a paper pulp triple surround bellow....like a Pro Eminence Driver of sorts. It exudes....I'm fast bitch!  hehe...not a Subwoofer/thick excursion.

Thanks DBC for bringing your experience with this product to the Forum.
The augmentation I'm geting with my CKC with MBM; for 625 bucks delivered is a steal. -Stone
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« Last Edit: 03/23/13 at 14:40:37 by stone_of_tone »  

Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
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DBC
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #52 - 03/23/13 at 15:40:08
 
Stone,

My reaction upon first listen to the MBM in my system was right on with yours. You can probably now appreciate that my words can in no way do this device justice, you simply have to hear one in your system. I'm glad you had the balls to go out on a limb on this and give one a try.

You are right, HSU is missing the whole 2-Channel music market. And yes for the price The MBM is an absolute steal !!  

The good news is that as you experiment it will only get better. The MBM has so much low end resolution it will immediately tell you when you are making improvements with placement, cables, grounding, vibration control, etc. Each time you make an improvement you will be able to bump up the MBM volume just a tad for more expansive and cleaner bass.

All your CD's are going to sound much improved.

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Oppo BDP-83SE, SE84CKC amp, Klipsch RF-7 mains, HSU MBM-12 MK2 mid bass module, HSU ULS-15 sub
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Lon
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #53 - 03/23/13 at 15:56:31
 
Awesome Stone, thanks for sharing your initial impressions.

These are definitely on my radar should I need them in my upcoming new "home." Time will tell.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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DBC
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #54 - 03/26/13 at 15:34:49
 
We had a winter storm here in the Midwest this weekend so I had a good bit of time for music listening. Got on a Santana Kick and was just mesmerized at how great the bass lines are in his music with the Mid Bass Module. HSU has been manufacturing the MBM for years and I just can't figure out why it is such a "Best Kept Secret" in music circles ???

Ok, I do have to say that HSU Marketing is a bit of a turn-off to 2-channel music listeners following in the "Less Is More" tradition. HSU  talks primarily about HT applications, crossovers and near field placement. Believe me it's not that complicated for quality 2-channel listening. Just place the MBM somewhere between the mains, make speaker level connections, set the MBM crossover to 150 Hz (max position) and gradually increase the volume until you get the correct amount of magic.

Anyway as I listened to Santana I surfed with my tablet for any mention of the Mid Bass Module on the many audio related sites out there. Over the past 6 or more years every once in a while someone will ask "Anyone know anything about the HSU Mid Bass Module, they sound interesting?".  Overwhelming the responses are from experienced subwoofer owners with a multitude of seemingly reasonable explanations as to why the MBM is a bad idea and all the technical reasons why they just will not work. Interestingly however, everyone kind enough to offer their hard and fast subwoofer Do's and Don'ts has never actually heard the HSU Mid Bass Module ???? So generally the person asking the question fades into obscurity as the well meaning experts pile on.

While surfing I found this Mid Bass Module review that some may find interesting: See link to full review.

Professional Review:  http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue34/hsu.htm

Quote:
"Forget about bass response in your current primaries for a bit. Put them where they work the best for mid-band and highs, imaging, depth of field, and such. THEN, slowly bring up the Hsu mid-bass module(s) reinforcement volume until you find the sound growing fleshy and substantial, and you can clearly hear bass lines (which now are actually resolved into musical events, instead of an indistinct "tock-tock").

Because the units are light paper, they are very fast and you get virtually no hang or "tubby" sound; Crisp, clean, articulate and tonally correct.

On one of my most-favorite songs, "Sultans of Swing," by Dire Straits, suddenly the bass line was as clear and intricate as Mark's guitar licks. Wowzers!

In other words, you get what you wanted from "audiophile mid-bass," but you also get music with substance."

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Oppo BDP-83SE, SE84CKC amp, Klipsch RF-7 mains, HSU MBM-12 MK2 mid bass module, HSU ULS-15 sub
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will
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #55 - 03/26/13 at 16:45:36
 
DBC,

Thanks for keeping us up with your Mid-bass explorations. I am enjoying it.

Will
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DBC
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #56 - 03/26/13 at 17:58:43
 
Will,

Guess I'm a sub nerd ??  I go to live shows locally a couple times a month (Blues, Rock, Pop) and use those listening experiences as a guide to what I would hope to achieve in my listening room. Over 20 years I have tried many subs, multiple subs, parametric equalizers, digital signal processing, room treatments, all with limited success at best.

So I thought I knew a lot about the subject and was not very optimistic when I purchased the HSU Mid Bass Module. I ordered it anyway thinking I might learn something and gain some insight to carry me forward in my quest. Well what I learned was I didn't know squat. It was as if I thought the Bass world was flat and suddenly I was having to wrap my brain around the fact that the world was actually round.

Stone_Of_Tone recently purchased a Mid Bass Module and his initial report was very positive. He has only had it a few days but I look forward to hearing more from him as he applies it in a different system and different room.

I used to think that a sub volume remote was a must in a music system. The ability to nudge the sub volume up or down depending on the music material. Sometimes even between songs on the same disk.

I have not touched the volume control on the MBM in over a month while playing a wide variety of music. It just makes everything sound right as rain. Smiley Smiley Smiley
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Oppo BDP-83SE, SE84CKC amp, Klipsch RF-7 mains, HSU MBM-12 MK2 mid bass module, HSU ULS-15 sub
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beowulf
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #57 - 03/26/13 at 22:09:30
 
DBC, do you think there is a better type speaker to use with these than others? i.e. Bookshelves vs Floorstanders, freq. ranges, etc.?
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stone_of_tone
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #58 - 03/26/13 at 22:24:16
 
"Ok, I do have to say that HSU Marketing is a bit of a turn-off to 2-channel music listeners following in the "Less Is More" tradition. HSU  talks primarily about HT applications, crossovers and near field placement. Believe me it's not that complicated for quality 2-channel listening. Just place the MBM somewhere between the mains, make speaker level connections, set the MBM crossover to 150 Hz (max position) and gradually increase the volume until you get the correct amount of magic".

Five days in for me and you said it best DBC (above).....the MBM augmentation is real and musical for me too.

Many people can't wrap their brains around a 2 watt Amp driving Speakers either....their loss to ignorance as well.

People question me driving my Polk LS-90's with 2 watts per channel (or less actually per channel because of loss in the Xover)....but sitting 5 feet away and listening at 78db SPL average....the tone and texture I'm getting is amazing with a Decware SE84CS & Super Zen CKC. NOW, with the MBM....this System is complete.

However, sure more efficient Speaker's would let me go Louder....so I just nogotiated a price on a pair of Klipsch RF-7 II B stock in Black from Mike at Acoustic Sound Design. DBC, you have been happy with yours and I like what I heard from a little pair of RF 52 II's.....so I have the RF-7 II's coming!  

Of course, I will be getting the MBM out to the HT & Bedroom Systems and report back. I will also get the RF-7 II's into the Listening Room (after burnin') to go head to head with my Polk LS-90's at 78db avg. SPL for Tone & Timbre comparisons.

Cheers


Listening Room System (12 x 14 room):

Ipad2 with Apple LossLess/CD Error correction>Cambridge Audio iD100 Docking Station >Illuminati D-60/BNC>Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro32 (SET AT 20 BIT DITHER)>Prophecy Cryo-Silver Reference i2s>Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0 w/remote wand>Kimber Select 1030>Decware SuperZen CKC Amp>Kimber Select 3033> Polk LS 90 & HSU MBM....Room Acoustically treated/Dedicated Room & Adcom ACE-515 AC Enhancer // Herbie's Halo's on all Tubes & 2.5lb Mapleshade Brass weight on top of CKC Transformer // XLO Pro Power Cord to SuperZen




2 Channel Home Theater (w/Polk SDA SRS 1.2 Speakers):
(DVD, Blu-ray disc, CD, Vinyl, HDTV & Sirius Sat Radio via Dish Network)

Panasonic Blu-ray>Kimber Hero IC>Rotel RA-1062/Pre-Amp>Kimber Timbre IC>Emotiva XPA-2/(300 watts per CH into 8 ohms)>Kimber 8TC Speaker Cable>Polk SDA SRS 1.2/(use SDA always)>Kimber PK10 Palladian Power Cord to Emotiva XPA-2

Dish Network/HD DVR with Kimber KCAG IC to Rotel RA-1062/Pre-Amp.....
Sharp 46' Aquos Quattron HDTV/extra thread of Yellow (2nd only to the Pioneer Kuro)

Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (Red Plinth) to Pro-Ject Phono Box II with Audio Quest Diamondback IC to Rotel RA-1062/Pre-Amp.....

Velodyne Subwoofer wired with Kimber 8TC out of Emotiva XPA-2
Soon to be replaced by: http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-15h.html .....(fall of 2013 purchase)




Bedroom System:

Pioneer DV-563A...Illuminati D-60...Cambridge Audio DacMagic...Kimber Silver Streak...Decware SE84CS (stock)...Zen Styx w/Silver plugs...Klipsch RF 52 II
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« Last Edit: 03/27/13 at 00:17:39 by stone_of_tone »  

Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
360 degree Rm Treats
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DBC
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Re: "ADDING WEIGHT & BODY"
Reply #59 - 03/26/13 at 22:47:04
 
beowulf, I can't answer that question with absolute certainty since I'm running full range mains. My guess is it might have even a greater positive impact with smaller speakers? Most Bookshelf speakers today have output down to 50-60 Hz and the MBM simply lays over or augments the 50 150 Hz range.

In my system the MBM meshes seamlessly producing a much broader more solid foundation to the music. It just adds dynamics and snap to drums and bass notes that you do not get from speakers alone. This carries throughout my house and sounds good in any of my rooms and I'm talking at only low to moderate volume.

I've been listening at lower overall volumes with much more satisfaction than ever before. The problem has always been I keep nudging the volume up looking for the BEEF and typically things get edgy before the BEEF arrives so I have to back off the volume and settle for what I can get. With the MBM the perfect amount of BEEF always seems to be there regardless of volume.
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Oppo BDP-83SE, SE84CKC amp, Klipsch RF-7 mains, HSU MBM-12 MK2 mid bass module, HSU ULS-15 sub
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