Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Decware Audio Forums
07/30/14 at 12:27:02


Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Replacing all my JJ's - Recommendations Please (Read 2495 times)
Ron
Senior Member
***




Posts: 87
Replacing all my JJ's - Recommendations Please
01/23/13 at 03:07:49
 
I want to replace all the JJ tubes in my M-T after the EZ81 issues I had. Any recommendations for the power tubes and input tubes?

I was thinking of grabbing some Tung Sol 5881 reissues and some RCA black plate 12AU7's

Any thoughts/ideas are greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Back to top
 
 

Mini Torii; Custom Mark Audio A12P SuperPensils; Kenwood KD-2055 TT; Audio-Research PH3 Phono Pre
  IP Logged
Fireblade
Seasoned Member
****


Knowledge comes, but
wisdom lingers.
A.L.Tennyson

Posts: 701
Re: Replacing all my JJ's - Recommendations Please
Reply #1 - 01/23/13 at 06:31:05
 
Difficult question to answer without knowing the current sound characteristics in your system (warm/dark, too detailed and dry, slight brightness, lacking transparency and micro-detail, etc.)

There's lots of information on tube-rolling in the Mini-Torii forum section.  In particular, check experiences from Les Lammers.

Personally, I'm currently in the process of fine-tuning mine and so far I've some conclusions, but these do not stem from an exhaustive tube selection, just a particular stash of very useful alternatives.  There are many more tubes I could eventually try, but that's not the intent in my case. So, consider these suggestions as mere examples.

I would suggest to consider NOS 12AT7 for drivers (Tungsram, Brimar, Psvanes), current production reissue Tung-Sol 6V6GT's (great sound!), Reflektor factory NOS black glass Russian 6V6's (need some long burning in), RFT EZ-80 rectifiers (preferred, but RFT EZ-81 could also be nice).

The rest will depend on the sound you want to get, as stated earlier (from OA3, OB3, OC3 to OD3 output voltage regulators, for example), and OA2 (VR150) as opposed to OC2 (VR75) in the input voltage regulation, all these possible combinations giving you choices in terms of warmth vs transparency and bass profiles with the output regulation, gain modifications with the input regulation.

This, of course, is always system-dependent and YMMV.  You'll need therefore to try some potentially interesting tube alternatives on your own to have an idea where you stand/like and then fine-tune.

I'm not familiar with the 5881, but the earlier mentioned 6V6 choices are very good as well as the stock JJ 6V6 S (although to me, the latter is a little dull in comparison).  Reissue Tung-Sol 6V6GT's are just the best I've heard so far (YMMV).

Be patient, as you'll need some time to critically listen the various combinations involved and eventually fine-tune based on your own ears.  For example, Brimar 12AT7's (really long burning-in times) are not happy with the Reflektor black glass NOS 6V6's mentioned.  For these I recommend the 12AU7 variation 5963, as a better pairing (a smooth driver with nice low-end effect).  Brimars have better synergies with the reissue Tung-Sol or the stock JJ 6V6 S's.

Finally, if you are replacing the original tube complement just in grounds of reliability, the only issues I know of are with the JJ EZ-81 rectifiers, and not the rest, which have proven very reliable to me so far.

Good luck!
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 01/23/13 at 07:01:27 by Fireblade »  

Laptop-Foobar2K-ASIO Direct//WD 2.0Tb HDD//Audio Gd USB cable//Audio Gd NFB 3 (2014) DAC//Decware Silver Ref IC's//Decware Mini Torii SE//Kimber Kable spkr cbls//Decware DM945's//Velodyne DLS 3500//BJC SUB Cbls//Tripp Lite 500 Isolation Trnsf.//Jellyfish Pwr Cord
  IP Logged
Rivieraranch
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1272
Re: Replacing all my JJ's - Recommendations Please
Reply #2 - 01/23/13 at 10:48:21
 
Tung Sol reissue 6V6; or JAN Sylvania 6V6. For the input, you could try a 5814, which is a more robust 12AU7.
Back to top
 
 

DECWARE CSP2+, TABOO MK III; SE84CKC; HR1; TRAPEZIUM DESKTOP SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 turntable; Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CD player; MARANTZ 2226B, 2216B receivers; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
  IP Logged
Ron
Senior Member
***




Posts: 87
Re: Replacing all my JJ's - Recommendations Please
Reply #3 - 01/23/13 at 12:14:28
 
Thanks for the input guys! Glad to hear the only JJ's with issues are the EZ81's. You make a very good point... one must listen critically before changing the tubes out. Without time for adequate listening and break-in it would be impossible to really *hear* the music coming from the amp.
Back to top
 
 

Mini Torii; Custom Mark Audio A12P SuperPensils; Kenwood KD-2055 TT; Audio-Research PH3 Phono Pre
  IP Logged
Rivieraranch
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1272
Re: Replacing all my JJ's - Recommendations Please
Reply #4 - 01/23/13 at 13:45:09
 
JJ 9 pins are ALL suspect, as are JJ octals. The only JJ that is not in the high failure list is possibly the EL84 - that's the one tube they've got right.
Back to top
 
 

DECWARE CSP2+, TABOO MK III; SE84CKC; HR1; TRAPEZIUM DESKTOP SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 turntable; Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CD player; MARANTZ 2226B, 2216B receivers; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
  IP Logged
Ron
Senior Member
***




Posts: 87
Re: Replacing all my JJ's - Recommendations Please
Reply #5 - 01/23/13 at 14:01:34
 
Does anyone know what the power tube plate voltage runs at on a mini torii? Thanks!
Back to top
 
 

Mini Torii; Custom Mark Audio A12P SuperPensils; Kenwood KD-2055 TT; Audio-Research PH3 Phono Pre
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7184
Re: Replacing all my JJ's - Recommendations Please
Reply #6 - 01/23/13 at 14:54:17
 
The JJ E34L tubes have a good reputation. As do the 6CA7. I've had good experiences with both tube types through several sets.
Back to top
 
 

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
  IP Logged
Ron
Senior Member
***




Posts: 87
Re: Replacing all my JJ's - Recommendations Please
Reply #7 - 01/23/13 at 14:54:55
 
I can't use those tubes in my M-T though, correct?
Back to top
 
 

Mini Torii; Custom Mark Audio A12P SuperPensils; Kenwood KD-2055 TT; Audio-Research PH3 Phono Pre
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7184
Re: Replacing all my JJ's - Recommendations Please
Reply #8 - 01/23/13 at 15:16:53
 
No.  I just wanted to note that they are not "bad tubes" as Jim had sort of dismissed them.
Back to top
 
 

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
  IP Logged
Fireblade
Seasoned Member
****


Knowledge comes, but
wisdom lingers.
A.L.Tennyson

Posts: 701
Re: Replacing all my JJ's - Recommendations Please
Reply #9 - 01/23/13 at 16:08:31
 
I agree with Lon.  In my experience of 8 months with the M-T and after reading countless reports here and in other forums concerning JJ tubes in general, these are well made.  

Many people really mistreat the output types in guitars, for example, and they still prefer them for their ruggedness and sound, with the only caveat that they sound a little compressed compared to a few others.

Having said that, the recent history of early failures with the JJ EZ-81 is so evident, users now tend to replace them prophylactically, before that happens.  I'm not sure why Decware continues to ship them with the Mini, but given JJ's good reputation, I guess the expectation is that this is just a bad lot-related, temporary situation.

I would strongly recommend good NOS rectifiers for this particularly critical tube duty.
Back to top
 
 

Laptop-Foobar2K-ASIO Direct//WD 2.0Tb HDD//Audio Gd USB cable//Audio Gd NFB 3 (2014) DAC//Decware Silver Ref IC's//Decware Mini Torii SE//Kimber Kable spkr cbls//Decware DM945's//Velodyne DLS 3500//BJC SUB Cbls//Tripp Lite 500 Isolation Trnsf.//Jellyfish Pwr Cord
  IP Logged
Ron
Senior Member
***




Posts: 87
Re: Replacing all my JJ's - Recommendations Please
Reply #10 - 01/23/13 at 19:33:21
 
FYI Power Tube plate voltage is ~300V Source: Steve.
Back to top
 
 

Mini Torii; Custom Mark Audio A12P SuperPensils; Kenwood KD-2055 TT; Audio-Research PH3 Phono Pre
  IP Logged
Rivieraranch
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1272
Re: Replacing all my JJ's - Recommendations Please
Reply #11 - 01/23/13 at 22:26:46
 
Jim McShane is leery of JJ octals.
Back to top
 
 

DECWARE CSP2+, TABOO MK III; SE84CKC; HR1; TRAPEZIUM DESKTOP SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 turntable; Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CD player; MARANTZ 2226B, 2216B receivers; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7184
Re: Replacing all my JJ's - Recommendations Please
Reply #12 - 01/23/13 at 22:45:25
 
Okay. . . . I'll say no more. Other than my experience has been very positive over a span of years. I don't have to sell them and/or replace them, so I may have a different perspective.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 01/23/13 at 22:45:51 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
  IP Logged
Rivieraranch
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1272
Re: Replacing all my JJ's - Recommendations Please
Reply #13 - 01/23/13 at 23:59:15
 
I personally have experienced premature JJ tube death: a 6V6, 6922's (more than 1) and on the forums there are numerous tales of sketchy JJ quality control and failures. I am sure there are plenty of good JJ's out there, like Lon's E34L's; I even have a few JJ 6922's that are still good. But the failures are mounting and to ignore that seems unwise.
Back to top
 
 

DECWARE CSP2+, TABOO MK III; SE84CKC; HR1; TRAPEZIUM DESKTOP SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 turntable; Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CD player; MARANTZ 2226B, 2216B receivers; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7184
Re: Replacing all my JJ's - Recommendations Please
Reply #14 - 01/24/13 at 00:28:16
 
Well, for me three consecutive quads of JJ 6CA7 have performed flawlessly and sonically wonderful as well. And David is right about guitar amps, the E34Ls and 12A series tubes are often used and recommended.
Back to top
 
 

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print