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Mini Torii vs SE84ZS vs SE34I.3 (Read 6036 times)
Lon
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Re: Mini Torii vs SE84ZS vs SE34I.3
Reply #15 - 12/25/12 at 22:17:18
 
I'll preface my remarks by saying I haven't heard the Mini Torii, for one reason (probably the fact that I've never quite been impresed with that family of output tubes in instrument amplifiers) or another it's the one Decware amp I really haven't been that interested in.

In my opinion the "dual mono design"possibly iisn't that big a deal sonically. To be honest I didn't hear better channel separation etc. in that aspect between the Integrated when I had it and the Torii Mk II (as "dual mono" as the Mini-Torii , both have just one power cord and one chassis so imo not really dual mono) to compare.

I also didn't really feel that the regulation tube circuit had a great impact sonically on the sound of these amps IF one had clean power fed to the amps (I used isolation transformers, then PS Audio "Duets" and then PS Audio Power Plant Premier). I don't believe I've ever had a Decware amp with negative feedback, so I can't really compare it to one without (all the amps I've had from Decware had no global negative feedback as far as I know).

I just have to say I loved the sound of the Integrated (I had the .2) DEEPLY and found that with the right speakers it came to life with a 2.0 volt source. As with all the Decware amps I've had, the CSP2 or CSP2+ certainly improved their sound, but that's the case with all the amps I've tried with those preamps. I DO love the sound of my two Toriis, but moved to them because I felt the speakers needed their power when I moved my system out to the living room/dining room area. But if I have the chance to I'll get an Integrated or (probably) Super Zen -- I just love that SET magic Decware sound.
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« Last Edit: 12/25/12 at 22:43:27 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Rivieraranch
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Re: Mini Torii vs SE84ZS vs SE34I.3
Reply #16 - 12/25/12 at 23:25:39
 
Ron:

You listen to Uncle Lon. He knows more than most of us here. The 6V6 tube has been generally regarded by users of musical instrument amplifiers as a prominent midrange tube. However the MINI TORII circuit takes that tube and makes it perform a lot better than you would anticipate in a music amplifier circuit. That is why I like mine.  

The Zen Monoblocks are extremely revealing - of not only the source material, but the cables and other components in the chain. These amps do not color or mask the sound. They are intended for a purist who is pursuing a system with low impedance, high efficiency speakers, a really good source, and who will try different cables until the right one is found.  

I will say that I felt my MINI TORII has excellent stereo separation. But the reality is that the Decware stereo amps, whether dual mono or not, all excel in this area.

I don't see how you would be disappointed with that integrated (SE34I.3) even with your present speakers.

My gentle advice (unsolicited) is not to get all entranced by tube regulation and stereo separation; these are all just concepts. Speak to Mr. D. to find out which of his products would best fulfill your audio goals.
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DECWARE CSP2+, TABOO MK III; SE84CKC; HR1; TRAPEZIUM DESKTOP SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 turntable; Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CD player; MARANTZ 2226B, 2216B receivers; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
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Lon
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Re: Mini Torii vs SE84ZS vs SE34I.3
Reply #17 - 12/25/12 at 23:50:47
 
Although I don't feel that I know more than others here, I otherwise agree whole-heartedly with Jim: a call to Steve is prudent before making any final decisions. And in a very real sense, other than speaker/room mismatch possible because of power output, it's very hard to go wrong.
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« Last Edit: 12/25/12 at 23:51:44 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini Torii vs SE84ZS vs SE34I.3
Reply #18 - 12/26/12 at 01:01:33
 
I had a similar predicament very early this year and just consulted with Steve.  The Man knows exactly what may be best in your particular case.  I ended up with a Mini-Torii and a pair of DM945 speakers that fit my bill quite well.

The additional advantage of the M-T is it's powerful tube-rolling potential, a means that can really seem to change the amp's signature.  So far I've just replaced rectifiers and I'm really happy with the change.  I can't wait to roll some drivers too.  Not necessary, but a wonderful fine-tunning option.

If you really dig dynamics and pep, this little guy is Popeye on spinach. Smiley
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Ron
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Re: Mini Torii vs SE84ZS vs SE34I.3
Reply #19 - 12/26/12 at 01:44:50
 
Wow, I just want to thank everyone for all the great insight!

It is a tough call, I will ensure to talk with Mr. D this week at some point. That said, I want something that will provide accuracy but at the same time not be mechanically. I have a feeling like Lon said, it will be very hard to go wrong.

Since I am not looking to listen at extremely loud volumes, I am looking between the Mini Torii or either the Super Zen or the Integrated.

I think I can save some money and not get hung up on the dual mono blocks or potentially even the Mini Torii. Either way I have two or three great options. I will read over each page again and see if something pops out at me.
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Mini Torii; Custom Mark Audio A12P SuperPensils; Kenwood KD-2055 TT; Audio-Research PH3 Phono Pre
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Ron
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Re: Mini Torii vs SE84ZS vs SE34I.3
Reply #20 - 12/26/12 at 01:58:40
 
I should said that I am not hugely into tube rolling at this point but the fact that the M-T tubes runs cool and will last a long time is appealing to me.
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Mini Torii; Custom Mark Audio A12P SuperPensils; Kenwood KD-2055 TT; Audio-Research PH3 Phono Pre
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ncblue
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Re: Mini Torii vs SE84ZS vs SE34I.3
Reply #21 - 12/26/12 at 18:02:04
 
I've not heard the Mini Torii. But I have owned both the Torii mk3 and the SE34I.3. If you have the right speakers, I feel the SE34I.3 is more direct and really latches on to the rhythm of the music. Call it PRAT or whatever, it makes you feel it. The soundstage is an added bonus, but I have changed rooms as well, so not a fair comparison. Just my 2c.
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Ron
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Re: Mini Torii vs SE84ZS vs SE34I.3
Reply #22 - 12/26/12 at 18:14:24
 
Thanks for the 2c!

I have been reading and re-reading each page.

I like that the Mini Torii runs cool, that said, I don't think that alone is worth the purchase. The Mini Torii might perform better with low input voltage. Not so much with the integrated.

I sent Steve and email, going to see his opinion on the matter as well.

Either way Integrated or Mini Torii, it will perform well with 8 ohm speakers. Can't go wrong.

Thanks again, always happy to keep reading the feedback!
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Mini Torii; Custom Mark Audio A12P SuperPensils; Kenwood KD-2055 TT; Audio-Research PH3 Phono Pre
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Ron
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Re: Mini Torii vs SE84ZS vs SE34I.3
Reply #23 - 12/26/12 at 20:24:12
 
The more I read the more I lean to the Mini Torii because it only needs a 1 volt source. I just don't want to be stuck in terms of growth in the future.
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Mini Torii; Custom Mark Audio A12P SuperPensils; Kenwood KD-2055 TT; Audio-Research PH3 Phono Pre
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Rivieraranch
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Re: Mini Torii vs SE84ZS vs SE34I.3
Reply #24 - 12/26/12 at 20:49:02
 
It is better to call than email.
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DECWARE CSP2+, TABOO MK III; SE84CKC; HR1; TRAPEZIUM DESKTOP SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 turntable; Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CD player; MARANTZ 2226B, 2216B receivers; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
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Lon
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Re: Mini Torii vs SE84ZS vs SE34I.3
Reply #25 - 12/26/12 at 22:20:11
 
To me that just means the Mini Torii is just set up to accomodate iPods. (I HATE IPODS).
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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opnly_bafld
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Re: Mini Torii vs SE84ZS vs SE34I.3
Reply #26 - 12/26/12 at 23:36:08
 
What DAC will you be using?
Do you know the max volts out?
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Ron
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Re: Mini Torii vs SE84ZS vs SE34I.3
Reply #27 - 12/26/12 at 23:36:15
 
I agree, iPods are the worst in terms of a source. All my files that I will be streaming are lossless imports from my CDs. That said, if I place a DAC on the other side of something like the ZSTAGE then it opens up my choice again.

Calling Steve tomorrow. Smiley
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Mini Torii; Custom Mark Audio A12P SuperPensils; Kenwood KD-2055 TT; Audio-Research PH3 Phono Pre
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Ron
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Re: Mini Torii vs SE84ZS vs SE34I.3
Reply #28 - 12/26/12 at 23:37:18
 
One of the DACs that I was looking at was this: (it has 2 volt output)
http://www.peachtreeaudio.com/dac-it-digital-to-analog-converter.html
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Mini Torii; Custom Mark Audio A12P SuperPensils; Kenwood KD-2055 TT; Audio-Research PH3 Phono Pre
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opnly_bafld
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Re: Mini Torii vs SE84ZS vs SE34I.3
Reply #29 - 12/27/12 at 00:07:36
 
The 2v rating is the highest RMS output voltage possible.

I don't know about streaming (is everything copied at the highest maximum level? or are there differing playback levels like CDs?), but I have some CDs (2v out CD player) that would not drive an SE84B to full power without a preamp.

"That said, if I place a DAC on the other side of something like the ZSTAGE then it opens up my choice again."

Sometimes I hate having too much gain, but it is way better than not having enough.
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« Last Edit: 12/27/12 at 00:08:45 by opnly_bafld »  
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