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Torii MK.III - what tubes are you running? (Read 562 times)
maddog07
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Torii MK.III - what tubes are you running?
12/11/12 at 00:05:13
 
I just acquired a Torii MK.III... and though I'm not quite ready to start "rolling"... I can see it coming in the not too distant future.

I'm sure there is already a thread somewhere on this forum about the best tubes or tubes everyone likes in their Torii's... but I can't find it.

So..  at the risk of being redundant... let's bring it up for discussion again...  

What tubes does everybody like in their Torii MK.3's?  Let the games begin..!!!?

Grin
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Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva UMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aragon 8008BB, Marsh P200b, Martin Logan Vista, Newform Research R645, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz,Kimber,Nordost wires, PSA pwr cords, I'm outta room!
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Lon
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Re: Torii MK.III - what tubes are you running?
Reply #1 - 12/12/12 at 02:49:14
 
We do have quite a bit of info on tube rolling the Toriis on this forum (more in General Audio I think than the Torii forum?)

I have tried the 6922/6DJ8/7DJ8 etc. family more than once in Decware amps that accept them and I just don't really like them. I use 6N1P tubes in my Toriis (and CSP2 and CSP2+) and most are the "Super Cryo'd" from cryoset.com--not sure the cryo'ing is what makes these special but they're good tubes.

I use GE OA3s at the current time, bottle shaped ones, and RCA 5U4GBT, straight shouldered, side-getter, and the JJ 6CA7 tubes. I'm really happy with this tube complement.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,Styx,ZP3,CSP2+(2),Torii Mk III
PS Audio PWT and PWD Mk II,PowerBase (2), PPP,AC-12 pc
Sony BPD-S5000ES
Denon DCD-A100
Rega RP3+TTPSU,white belt and Exact2
Cryoset, VooDoo AudioICs
Mapleshade Samson v2+v3 and 4"platforms
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orangecrush
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Re: Torii MK.III - what tubes are you running?
Reply #2 - 12/12/12 at 03:02:16
 
Like Lon, I love the 6N1P, coke bottle OA3's tubes and JJ 6CA7 tubes. However, I am still digging the Shugang Preferred series 274B's for rectifiers although they are very big and forward sounding. I also love the coke bottle 1957 Svetlanas 5U4G black plates. The Shugang 6CA7 Black Treasures were a waste of money.
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JD
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Re: Torii MK.III - what tubes are you running?
Reply #3 - 12/12/12 at 20:59:52
 
Running with matsushita 7dj8's for inputs, new mullards el34's for power, nos raytheon ob3's, and nos rca 5u4g rectifiers.  All tubes cryo'd except for nos tubes.  Also have 7dj8's in my csp2+, telefunken driving and matsushita's on the side...all cryo'd with nos 5r4gy rca doing it's thing.  Sounds delicious.
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maddog07
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Re: Torii MK.III - what tubes are you running?
Reply #4 - 12/13/12 at 23:17:14
 
thanks all for the input.  I'll see if I can find more "history" in the general audio area.  I'm looking for a little more "deliciousness"as you say... but don't have my Torii strapped to the speakers it will be used with long term yet either..  I have heard from another member that mullard reissue EL34's and the Shuguang std 34's are good in the Torii.  
Consensus seems to be that stock 6N1P's are pretty good.  
I haven't heard much about rolling the OA3 and OC2 regulators.
Not a whole lot about the rectifiers either.

I am a complete noob to tube amplification...my first tube amp ever was an SE34 I just got back in August and I've already jumped to a Torii.  I love the sound of the SE34 I had, but it did not have stock tubes in it either.  Ultimately I think I want my Torii to sound more like the SE34 - just more power.  So bear with me if I sound like an idiot... just some nice constructive "correction" and sharing of knowledge would be appreciated though!!!
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Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva UMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aragon 8008BB, Marsh P200b, Martin Logan Vista, Newform Research R645, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz,Kimber,Nordost wires, PSA pwr cords, I'm outta room!
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will
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Re: Torii MK.III - what tubes are you running?
Reply #5 - 12/19/12 at 06:12:16
 
I too am after enhancing the "SE sound" in the Torii, having loved the SE34 for my previous amp. And I think the Torii by design has a whole lot of SE traits inherently that can be enhanced, but since it is the Torii MKIII there are things it does better than SE in my opinion, and with careful tuning you can get the best of both worlds with unbelievable detail, speed, dynamics, weight and authority, any of which being able to be enhanced or settled with tube choices and knob adjustment.

Top to bottom frequency balance, and speed, detail and transparency, with just enough of the right kinds of warmth to make it forgiving and lush and without sacrifice to micro detail or micro dynamics are my objective. I can get many flavors of this easily, and from different tube approaches, but I do have an excellent variety of all the tube types.

And though the stock coupling caps I had were very good, for me I have what what I think of as a bit more natural and musical sounding caps ...NOS Russian K40Y-9 PIO caps that were about $2 each from the Ukraine.

And of course all these preferences are totally influenced by room, power supply, system components, cables, feet etc, and finally synergy. So one's solutions can be quite different than another's for a very similar goal.

Also, compared to the SE34, the Torii MKIII has more tube types, and they all matter. If you explore you will find that different tube makes and vintages in every position really can make a notable mark. For example, different coke bottle OA3s, or different straight side OA3s can make a big difference toward fine tuning. And generally there is a difference between those shapes. Then with regulators, you can get into OB3, OC3, OD3, most of which sound different for the reasons above, but also each of them offer different voltages that effect the power tubes differently, so can really shift the sound.

Also, the Torii bass and treble controls add another huge tool for fine tuning the tube sets you do like.

I am one who likes the 6N1P, but never use them. In general my preferred  6DJ8s, 7DJ8s, and 6922s being way better for me in my system. 6922s to me are the most difficult of these in that they tend to have more articulation and edge definition than the DJ8s, but I have some 6922s that in combination with the right other tubes sound absolutely beautiful. The trick here is that synergy is giant, and you can very often tune around things you would prefer to change in most any of the nicer tubes to make them sound to preference if you have a decent compliment of other tubes with very good, but varying characters....warmth, clarity, depth...whatever.

I am currently using cryoset JJ 6CA7s, 44 Hytron OD3s (I often use Raytheon straight bottle OA3s that are labeled OB3, but have an orange glow so I think they are OA3. I really like Tungsol OB2s if needed, but I play around with other regs too depending on need for the set).But this 44 Hytron OD3 has good frequency range in my system, smoothness, warmth and a beautiful old school natural sound that really make this particular tube set wake up), Raytheon OC2 (stock), 52-53 very tall bottle RCA 5U4GBs that are very unusual GBs in that they have a top mica, but none on bottom, built internally like 5U4G-ST, and finally 59 Amperex D-getter 6DJ8 Bugle Boys (different than most "Bugle Boys).

There are a lot of 7DJ8s that I like very much for inputs and they can be a really good buy for very good NOS tubes. Though they are "discovered" and becoming more difficult to find the real deals…they still there.

Also Rectifiers are a great tuning tube, and there a lot of very good buys on 5U4GBs. I also like some STs really a lot (including inexpensive Valve Arts "274B"), but many GBs have traits that can sound really good to me in the torii...and they can be easy to explore some costing only 15-20 for a good pair. You have to be selective with them though, being sure they are the exact same internal construction, and if you explore a few for kicks, it is very good to try a little range from different companies and with different bottle lengths and construction with various getter setups.
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« Last Edit: 12/19/12 at 06:20:34 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, Oppo 83 (modded), ZSTAGE, TORII MkIII, Zen styx, Ziegler HR-ONEs...VHaudio, Reality, MAC ICs.... PI Audio Uberbuss....PI, VHaudio, Cryoparts power cables, HerbiesAudioLab feet and tube dampers.
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Lon
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Re: Torii MK.III - what tubes are you running?
Reply #6 - 12/19/12 at 13:57:45
 
will has probably explored tube-rolling the Torii Mk III more than anyone, and what he has to say is very relevant.

Last night and this morning I re-discovered yet again how extensively the Torii responds to tube-rolling. I've been a bit discontent ever since I had to remove the pair of old RCA 5U4G coke bottle bottom getter rectifiers from the Torii. I've tried five other, varied, matched pairs of rectifiers in their place and with rolling the complementary tubes I got quite a nice sound but not quite the magic. I removed that pair because one of them would no longer light up in the Torii, but it will light up in my ZP3 and my CSP2 and my CSP2+ oddly enough. So today I tried putting those old rectifiers in the CSP2+ and ZP3 in place of the carefully selected 5Y3GT tubes in those components, and rolled OA3 regulators in the Torii and have found a bit of what I was missing in the total sound. Though the imaging and sound is a bit too big (which is what I find with any rectifier but the 5Y3GT in the CSP2 and ZP3, I'm getting used to it and may be able to tube roll that out in time, and the magic of those old rectifiers is back. In the meantime it shows me that I need to look for a similar pair of old rectifiers for the Torii and then can restore the 5Y3GT to the other components.

It's just amazing what tube rolling Decware components can do. I've tube rolled other brands and makes but the simplicity and directness of the Decware circuits means tubes really make a deeper impact. And tubes I've loved in other components just don't always work in the Decware ones.

Edit to add: I just couldn't adjust to the "bigness" of the sound and put the 5Y3GT back in the CSP2+ and accurate imaging and sound staging returned.
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« Last Edit: 12/19/12 at 14:37:13 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,Styx,ZP3,CSP2+(2),Torii Mk III
PS Audio PWT and PWD Mk II,PowerBase (2), PPP,AC-12 pc
Sony BPD-S5000ES
Denon DCD-A100
Rega RP3+TTPSU,white belt and Exact2
Cryoset, VooDoo AudioICs
Mapleshade Samson v2+v3 and 4"platforms
Herbie's Audio Lab p
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