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Torii MK.III - what tubes are you running? (Read 1736 times)
maddog07
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Torii MK.III - what tubes are you running?
12/11/12 at 00:05:13
 
I just acquired a Torii MK.III... and though I'm not quite ready to start "rolling"... I can see it coming in the not too distant future.

I'm sure there is already a thread somewhere on this forum about the best tubes or tubes everyone likes in their Torii's... but I can't find it.

So..  at the risk of being redundant... let's bring it up for discussion again...  

What tubes does everybody like in their Torii MK.3's?  Let the games begin..!!!?

Grin
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Lon
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Re: Torii MK.III - what tubes are you running?
Reply #1 - 12/12/12 at 02:49:14
 
We do have quite a bit of info on tube rolling the Toriis on this forum (more in General Audio I think than the Torii forum?)

I have tried the 6922/6DJ8/7DJ8 etc. family more than once in Decware amps that accept them and I just don't really like them. I use 6N1P tubes in my Toriis (and CSP2 and CSP2+) and most are the "Super Cryo'd" from cryoset.com--not sure the cryo'ing is what makes these special but they're good tubes.

I use GE OA3s at the current time, bottle shaped ones, and RCA 5U4GBT, straight shouldered, side-getter, and the JJ 6CA7 tubes. I'm really happy with this tube complement.
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orangecrush
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Re: Torii MK.III - what tubes are you running?
Reply #2 - 12/12/12 at 03:02:16
 
Like Lon, I love the 6N1P, coke bottle OA3's tubes and JJ 6CA7 tubes. However, I am still digging the Shugang Preferred series 274B's for rectifiers although they are very big and forward sounding. I also love the coke bottle 1957 Svetlanas 5U4G black plates. The Shugang 6CA7 Black Treasures were a waste of money.
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JD
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Re: Torii MK.III - what tubes are you running?
Reply #3 - 12/12/12 at 20:59:52
 
Running with matsushita 7dj8's for inputs, new mullards el34's for power, nos raytheon ob3's, and nos rca 5u4g rectifiers.  All tubes cryo'd except for nos tubes.  Also have 7dj8's in my csp2+, telefunken driving and matsushita's on the side...all cryo'd with nos 5r4gy rca doing it's thing.  Sounds delicious.
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maddog07
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Re: Torii MK.III - what tubes are you running?
Reply #4 - 12/13/12 at 23:17:14
 
thanks all for the input.  I'll see if I can find more "history" in the general audio area.  I'm looking for a little more "deliciousness"as you say... but don't have my Torii strapped to the speakers it will be used with long term yet either..  I have heard from another member that mullard reissue EL34's and the Shuguang std 34's are good in the Torii.  
Consensus seems to be that stock 6N1P's are pretty good.  
I haven't heard much about rolling the OA3 and OC2 regulators.
Not a whole lot about the rectifiers either.

I am a complete noob to tube amplification...my first tube amp ever was an SE34 I just got back in August and I've already jumped to a Torii.  I love the sound of the SE34 I had, but it did not have stock tubes in it either.  Ultimately I think I want my Torii to sound more like the SE34 - just more power.  So bear with me if I sound like an idiot... just some nice constructive "correction" and sharing of knowledge would be appreciated though!!!
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will
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Re: Torii MK.III - what tubes are you running?
Reply #5 - 12/19/12 at 06:12:16
 
I too am after enhancing the "SE sound" in the Torii, having loved the SE34 for my previous amp. And I think the Torii by design has a whole lot of SE traits inherently that can be enhanced, but since it is the Torii MKIII there are things it does better than SE in my opinion, and with careful tuning you can get the best of both worlds with unbelievable detail, speed, dynamics, weight and authority, any of which being able to be enhanced or settled with tube choices and knob adjustment.

Top to bottom frequency balance, and speed, detail and transparency, with just enough of the right kinds of warmth to make it forgiving and lush and without sacrifice to micro detail or micro dynamics are my objective. I can get many flavors of this easily, and from different tube approaches, but I do have an excellent variety of all the tube types.

And though the stock coupling caps I had were very good, for me I have what what I think of as a bit more natural and musical sounding caps ...NOS Russian K40Y-9 PIO caps that were about $2 each from the Ukraine.

And of course all these preferences are totally influenced by room, power supply, system components, cables, feet etc, and finally synergy. So one's solutions can be quite different than another's for a very similar goal.

Also, compared to the SE34, the Torii MKIII has more tube types, and they all matter. If you explore you will find that different tube makes and vintages in every position really can make a notable mark. For example, different coke bottle OA3s, or different straight side OA3s can make a big difference toward fine tuning. And generally there is a difference between those shapes. Then with regulators, you can get into OB3, OC3, OD3, most of which sound different for the reasons above, but also each of them offer different voltages that effect the power tubes differently, so can really shift the sound.

Also, the Torii bass and treble controls add another huge tool for fine tuning the tube sets you do like.

I am one who likes the 6N1P, but never use them. In general my preferred  6DJ8s, 7DJ8s, and 6922s being way better for me in my system. 6922s to me are the most difficult of these in that they tend to have more articulation and edge definition than the DJ8s, but I have some 6922s that in combination with the right other tubes sound absolutely beautiful. The trick here is that synergy is giant, and you can very often tune around things you would prefer to change in most any of the nicer tubes to make them sound to preference if you have a decent compliment of other tubes with very good, but varying characters....warmth, clarity, depth...whatever.

I am currently using cryoset JJ 6CA7s, 44 Hytron OD3s (I often use Raytheon straight bottle OA3s that are labeled OB3, but have an orange glow so I think they are OA3. I really like Tungsol OB2s if needed, but I play around with other regs too depending on need for the set).But this 44 Hytron OD3 has good frequency range in my system, smoothness, warmth and a beautiful old school natural sound that really make this particular tube set wake up), Raytheon OC2 (stock), 52-53 very tall bottle RCA 5U4GBs that are very unusual GBs in that they have a top mica, but none on bottom, built internally like 5U4G-ST, and finally 59 Amperex D-getter 6DJ8 Bugle Boys (different than most "Bugle Boys).

There are a lot of 7DJ8s that I like very much for inputs and they can be a really good buy for very good NOS tubes. Though they are "discovered" and becoming more difficult to find the real deals…they still there.

Also Rectifiers are a great tuning tube, and there a lot of very good buys on 5U4GBs. I also like some STs really a lot (including inexpensive Valve Arts "274B"), but many GBs have traits that can sound really good to me in the torii...and they can be easy to explore some costing only 15-20 for a good pair. You have to be selective with them though, being sure they are the exact same internal construction, and if you explore a few for kicks, it is very good to try a little range from different companies and with different bottle lengths and construction with various getter setups.
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« Last Edit: 12/19/12 at 06:20:34 by will »  

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Lon
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Re: Torii MK.III - what tubes are you running?
Reply #6 - 12/19/12 at 13:57:45
 
will has probably explored tube-rolling the Torii Mk III more than anyone, and what he has to say is very relevant.

Last night and this morning I re-discovered yet again how extensively the Torii responds to tube-rolling. I've been a bit discontent ever since I had to remove the pair of old RCA 5U4G coke bottle bottom getter rectifiers from the Torii. I've tried five other, varied, matched pairs of rectifiers in their place and with rolling the complementary tubes I got quite a nice sound but not quite the magic. I removed that pair because one of them would no longer light up in the Torii, but it will light up in my ZP3 and my CSP2 and my CSP2+ oddly enough. So today I tried putting those old rectifiers in the CSP2+ and ZP3 in place of the carefully selected 5Y3GT tubes in those components, and rolled OA3 regulators in the Torii and have found a bit of what I was missing in the total sound. Though the imaging and sound is a bit too big (which is what I find with any rectifier but the 5Y3GT in the CSP2 and ZP3, I'm getting used to it and may be able to tube roll that out in time, and the magic of those old rectifiers is back. In the meantime it shows me that I need to look for a similar pair of old rectifiers for the Torii and then can restore the 5Y3GT to the other components.

It's just amazing what tube rolling Decware components can do. I've tube rolled other brands and makes but the simplicity and directness of the Decware circuits means tubes really make a deeper impact. And tubes I've loved in other components just don't always work in the Decware ones.

Edit to add: I just couldn't adjust to the "bigness" of the sound and put the 5Y3GT back in the CSP2+ and accurate imaging and sound staging returned.
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« Last Edit: 12/19/12 at 14:37:13 by Lon »  

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Lon
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Re: Torii MK.III - what tubes are you running?
Reply #7 - 02/16/14 at 22:25:24
 
Thought I'd add a post to this thread because though I was quite happy with a pair of bottle-shaped RCA 5U4Gs from the 'fifties I had put in about six months or so ago, I splurged on a pair of bottle-shaped from the 'forties, labeled Raytheon but I think they are RCA made. They looked like they would be very similar to the favorite pair that I lost one of the year before, and after a few days of burn in they are giving me excellent sound.

Then I decided to try a pair of 1946 Arcturus OB3 tubes in place of bottle-shapee Raytheon OB3s I was using. I had bought these Arcurus, a pair for 15 dollars shipped, from ebay and didn't like them in the Torii at first. Since I'm burning in a pair of HR-1s in my second system I put them in there last week to get some juice going on them. Put them into the main system today and paired with those 'forties 5U4G rectifiers I am getting amazing sound, dynamic, detailed but with no harshness. I could wish for a bit more bass on some program material, but that is wishing for just a bit. Surprised me and I can't wait to get home and listen some more.

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Lon
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Re: Torii MK.III - what tubes are you running?
Reply #8 - 02/16/14 at 22:27:42
 
And here are the rectifiers.
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« Last Edit: 02/16/14 at 22:30:26 by Lon »  

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will
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Re: Torii MK.III - what tubes are you running?
Reply #9 - 02/17/14 at 23:53:01
 
That is interesting Lon. Brenden at tubeworld told me he thought all the OB3 STs were probably Sylvania made. I had noticed a sound difference based on minor construction differences. One tending to sound bigger, tighter, clean and open, with some minor warmth, and being good at the localized player ambience. The "bigness" of these remind me of that tubey sound JJ6CA7s give. These have a small D shaped wire welded to the center support wire not far above glass bottom and the support wire is a bit off center. Brenden said these were the 40's tubes.

The 50s ones the center support wire is actually centered, and no D. They tend to sound softer, less big, with more texture and air, and wider ambient information. I tend to use these most, not really hearing them...but I also like the earlier ones with some sets.

Interestingly, though it has been a while since I heard them, this is similar to how I recall the 40s 5U4G-STs, the ones with the center wires...more open and spacious with a bit less bass....less dense, dark and deep than most 50's STs, though the ones with the top/side D getters can be pretty open and textural.

Anyway, thanks for the post, and it is great to hear you found that special synergy in your system. It is no surprise how the rectifiers and VRs effect the sound in this simple circuit, but what a treat when you get the pleasure of extraordinary sound!
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Lon
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Re: Torii MK.III - what tubes are you running?
Reply #10 - 02/18/14 at 00:08:59
 
Yes, these sound different than any other OB3 I have found, I've gotten used to OB3 in my now smaller room, but the others I have do have a softer signature. Nice synergy with the rectifier and the JJ6CA7s that I still plan on using as I've had good luck, and even better sound, with them.
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DaveH
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Re: Torii MK.III - what tubes are you running?
Reply #11 - 03/06/14 at 17:46:57
 
As mentioned per orange crush if I'm not mistaken, Cryo'd gold lion kT77's, GZ34 cryo rectifiers that Ron Sheldon gave the nod to, and 6922 inputs. System now has authority and control and feeling of power without distortion at higher SPL's  without the syrup.  Thanks OC, Dave H. Smiley
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tom collins
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Re: Torii MK.III - what tubes are you running?
Reply #12 - 03/07/14 at 20:35:10
 
KT66's when muscle is required, old Mullard EL34's when delicacy is required.  RCA 6922 inputs and ancient RCA rectifiers.
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JD
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Re: Torii MK.III - what tubes are you running?
Reply #13 - 03/07/14 at 21:13:56
 
The 7dj8's are no longer in my ToriiIII or preamp.  After a lot of rolling I've settled on PSVANE 6ca7-t's powering with early 50's RCA oa3, and 5U4G's rectifiying.  My fav inputs are now amperex 7308 with siemens 7308 in the same boat.  I was surprised I favored these over a pair of very expensive Telefunken CCA's but it really wasn't even close. The 7308 are more enjoyable and easier to listen to, more air, sparkle, and warmth.  The CCA's were very surgical in nature and although nice not what I hoped for.
My greatest sonic improvement was with the advice of Zygi, Will and Steve. I changed capacitors in my ERR's with 3.9 Mundorf Supremes and moved my speakers from the front of my room (27 inches from wall) to in between 2 adjoining rooms with french doors (the French doors are always open).  The soundstage is now huge, with the music traveling unempeded 12 feet forward and 15 ft. backward.  With diffuser panels behind my listening chair and on one side wall I'm having a hard time ever leaving this place.

F' ya DECWARE

JD
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