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1:1 AC line X-formers?... (Read 1964 times)
Mark
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1:1 AC line X-formers?...
12/05/12 at 14:46:18
 
I've seen some mention of 1:1 AC line X-formers on here, and I was wondering what the benefits of such a unit would bring to my audio system...

I do not use any line conditioners, as my opinion is that they degrade the sound to my ears; however, isolating the house mains from my system sounds like a sensible idea...

I found this: http://www.hammondmfg.com/178T.htm

...which I'm sure I can find for a reasonable price, which is another requirement for anything that I buy for my system... It does have a torroidal tranformer, and is made by a reputable company...

I would appreciate any thoughts or comments regarding this issue...

Note: Please, no big buck remedies that you feel can't be lived without...

Thanks, and best regards, Mark.
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If a rabbit defined intelligence the way man does, then the most intelligent animal would be a rabbit, followed by the animal most willing to obey the commands of a rabbit. -Robert Brault, writer (b. 1938)
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Lon
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Re: 1:1 AC line X-formers?...
Reply #1 - 12/05/12 at 16:00:00
 
Well, as you don't want to hear about big buck items, I won't mention that the best solution that I found to the electrical situation was an expensive (I got it at half price, B stock discontinued product) power regenerator.

I had for years the Tripplite isolation transformers that Steve talks of and I kept struggling with a sort of steely sound that Radcha here helped me to identify (by saying he had the transformers and he felt they were making a sound that sounded like what I heard) were contributed by the Tripplites. I also had been using power centers by PS Audio (Duets, reasonably priced but I'm afraid no longer available new) with the transformers. When used without the transformers these proved very good, and no extra sound.

Just my experience. Very happy with the PS Audio regenerator in the main system, and the Duets in the second system. And I feel they make a significant difference. Which has allowed me to even further identify the character of tubes, interconnects, speaker cables, power cables. . . clean power really brings out the revealing nature of Decware products. Which can be a double-edged sword.

What you're inquiring about may be a valid course to pursue. . . I'm not sure I have any experience with this type.
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« Last Edit: 12/05/12 at 16:01:24 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,
PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Mark
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Re: 1:1 AC line X-formers?...
Reply #2 - 12/05/12 at 16:44:39
 
Thanks, Lon... I certainly don't want to put anything in that would degrade the sound... I sure wish I could find someone locally who could loan me a X-former just to see how it would sound in my system...

Short of that, I think I'll just work on getting the best AC cables I can afford for now... (m.)
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If a rabbit defined intelligence the way man does, then the most intelligent animal would be a rabbit, followed by the animal most willing to obey the commands of a rabbit. -Robert Brault, writer (b. 1938)
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orangecrush
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Re: 1:1 AC line X-formers?...
Reply #3 - 12/06/12 at 04:26:35
 
Mark, you might be a good candidate for Less Loss power cables. They have a unique filtering property to them and they are desinged to plug straight into the wall receptacle with other power treatment.

http://www.lessloss.com/dynamic-filtering-power-cable-original-p-180.html?zenid=...

$599 isn't cheap, but you have a minimalist system, so it might be worth it. Actually, many Audiogon people upgrade to the more expensive one they sell, and you can sometimes get them for allot less. They get rave reviews

Also check out http://www.b-p-t.com/

They offer good value. I have the BPT-1 with the silver internal wiring. I really like it.

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marky
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Re: 1:1 AC line X-formers?...
Reply #4 - 12/06/12 at 17:21:54
 
Theres one of Lons units here, or similar. Still a bit pricey and with shipping would be just beyond me. I`ve used them a few times and they are very helpful. When I bought my IsoTek the chap said it would be a good platform for a system, meaning I was at entry level.http://www.audioemotion.co.uk/pre_owned.php

That ones collect only, but theres a few to look at

Found this one, looks a good deal, if it isn`t out of date.
http://www.mr-cable.com/PS%20Audio%20Quintessence%20Power%20Center.htm.
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« Last Edit: 12/06/12 at 18:56:51 by marky »  

Decware: Rachaels x 2 bridged, CSP2+, ZP3, ZMC1, DSC i/c`s, DHC-1 pw/cbl`s. Roksan Radius/Nima/high def cabl & M.Benz LP s , M/L aeon i`s, Townshend Isolda sp/cbl`s, Isotek mains sub
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Lon
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Re: 1:1 AC line X-formers?...
Reply #5 - 12/06/12 at 17:25:53
 
Actually same company, different models than the one I own (Power Plant Premier).
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,
PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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beowulf
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Re: 1:1 AC line X-formers?...
Reply #6 - 12/07/12 at 02:16:27
 
I don't have the expertise of a lot of guys here, but I was looking into this model which seems reasonably priced and has 10 receptacles (including 2 High Current receptacles for amps, etc.)

PS Audio Dectet Power Center.

Right now there’s a Holiday bundle that includes:
•      A Dectet Power Center
•      a 5-pack of Power Port Classics
•      a half meter Jewel AC power cable

For $495 it seems like a really good bargain! http://www.psaudio.com/shop/dectet-power-center/
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Mark
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Re: 1:1 AC line X-formers?...
Reply #7 - 12/07/12 at 02:37:24
 
I'd have to say at this point that there is not a single 'box with outlets' that hasn't degraded the sound for me unless it has straight copper busses and no switches, fuses, lights, surge protection, jumper wiring, or anything else...

I was just toying with the idea of a 1:1 transformer to isolate street service from my system... (m.)
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If a rabbit defined intelligence the way man does, then the most intelligent animal would be a rabbit, followed by the animal most willing to obey the commands of a rabbit. -Robert Brault, writer (b. 1938)
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Lon
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"Love without
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worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7687
Re: 1:1 AC line X-formers?...
Reply #8 - 12/07/12 at 02:55:38
 
Well it's hard to say categorically whether something degrades the sound in some instances, but certainly the one and only power components that have positively impacted the sound top to bottom for me has been the PS Audio power regeneraters, which actually do something useful and different than other components I've used. I'd encourage you to try one if you can, if you haven't, it may be "the ticket." It is for me. Especially for digital components but even improves the sound of Decware amps and preamps.
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« Last Edit: 12/07/12 at 02:58:43 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,
PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Mark
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Posts: 190
Re: 1:1 AC line X-formers?...
Reply #9 - 12/07/12 at 03:59:45
 
Lon: I would trust your judgement on the matter... I will say that for me, and concerning various schemes I've tried regarding AC line conditioning, I hear a degrading of the sound...

Now, granted, this does not include any of the units mentioned above...

Right now, if I had enough components to warrant it, I'd go with this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Naim-Wiremold-AC-Power-Strip-Demo-Units-discount-/360377...

(Scroll down on the listing and see what Gene Rubin has to say about power conditioners)

It's a Wiremold power strip sans anything else... And highly touted by audiophiles who've been through the AC line conditioner grinder...

It also can be had for less from industrial supply houses...  (m.)

Added: Here is current supplier: http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=70091760#tab=specs  (prices have increased, apparently)

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« Last Edit: 12/07/12 at 04:24:13 by Mark »  

If a rabbit defined intelligence the way man does, then the most intelligent animal would be a rabbit, followed by the animal most willing to obey the commands of a rabbit. -Robert Brault, writer (b. 1938)
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Lon
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"Love without
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Philip K. D*ck

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Re: 1:1 AC line X-formers?...
Reply #10 - 12/07/12 at 04:54:36
 
Mark, I've read a lot about power conditioning and what matters to me is what I hear with my own ears.

I really, in my house with the power coming into it, find that what I have works best, and I need more than that power strip. I'm happy, the change is very significant with what I have, blacker backgrounds, reduction of glare and edginess, dynamics. . . everytime I think I could do without it I find I can't. I am so glad I found this route. It lets me hear so much about cabling, sources, recordings. . .a blessing and a curse.

Hope you can find yours.
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« Last Edit: 12/07/12 at 13:37:49 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,
PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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will
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Re: 1:1 AC line X-formers?...
Reply #11 - 12/08/12 at 05:28:10
 
Mark,

There is quite a range of options made by PI audio. Dave Elledge, concerned over all the things you have mentioned, conditioning but transparent, started making these filters to solve that. Though probably all of the companies claim likewise, I think this guy is the real deal, honest and very smart. He is a small operation who I think makes stuff for his own sound desires first, then offers it to the rest of us. Might be worth getting in a conversation with him about the cheaper units.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=102422.0
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Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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Mark
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Re: 1:1 AC line X-formers?...
Reply #12 - 12/08/12 at 15:40:41
 
Hello, Will: Firstly, I'd like to say that the aforementioned person, Gene Rubin, [now] does have a new line of AC power conditioners... Secondly, I want to say that virtually ALL the units mentioned on this thread are well out of my price range... So I'm kinda stuck trying to get the best out of the least... But that endeavor is going quite well, actually...

Examples:

'Blue Heaven' [Nordost] knock-offs from China (solid silver strapping, 20 conductor), terminated nicely.

RCA interconnects from 'Livecables'  (all silver, litz braid, terminated well, sound great)

My own home-brew power strips... (see thread on this forum) Note: Currently burning it in by having it hooked up to my refrigerator.

Kit speakers: Tang Band D3-1, full range, back loaded horn, front firing mouth.

Before the Zen CDP: A $99.00 factory reconditioned TEAC reference mini component CDP. (surprisingly good sound)

Before the Zen Triode: A Musical Paradise SET amp  ($320.00)

A Sangean HDT 1-X HD tuner... (fabulous, holds its own against a Marantz 10-B) Note: Actually tried this.

All this sitting on a Pier One console table that I reinforced under both the top and the lower shelf... (works great, looks good)

The Zen units are probably the most expensive audio components I've actually purchased to date, and I'm happy with them...

I have a couple of cryoed AC cables on order, and another stock NAIM AC cable just to try it out... None of these are over $50.00 each...

So, that's where I stand now... If I get some extra dough, I'm going to spring for a pair of MG 944s, either new, or hopfelly pre-owned... (m.)











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If a rabbit defined intelligence the way man does, then the most intelligent animal would be a rabbit, followed by the animal most willing to obey the commands of a rabbit. -Robert Brault, writer (b. 1938)
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will
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Re: 1:1 AC line X-formers?...
Reply #13 - 12/08/12 at 19:36:45
 
I don't know what they are running now, but for quite a few sound freaks, the Audio Brick Wall is chosen as a transparent surge suppressor, with some filtering. I used one for years and it sounds great to me considering the price and being a non-flo-restricted unit. But my power is not particularly horrible. If you could get one on trial and it fits the price, may be worth a look.
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Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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Mark
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Re: 1:1 AC line X-formers?...
Reply #14 - 12/08/12 at 21:31:37
 
Will: I checked out the company website... They seem like a good product, thanks... (m.)
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If a rabbit defined intelligence the way man does, then the most intelligent animal would be a rabbit, followed by the animal most willing to obey the commands of a rabbit. -Robert Brault, writer (b. 1938)
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