Forums - Loudness imbalance in speakers:

Mark

Seasoned Member

Posts: 177

Re: Loudness imbalance in speakers:
Reply #15 - 11/27/12 at 01:56:06

I always wanted to make a pair of dedicated stands for these speakers from the very beginning... That way I could experiment with placement... Now, I have little choice in placement... Well, none, actually...

Also, I'm toying with the idea of getting the MG 944s... That would change the whole equation here...

Note: You wouldn't believe just how good these Tang Band speakers sound... I would hate to give them up, really...

Back to top

If a rabbit defined intelligence the way man does, then the most intelligent animal would be a rabbit, followed by the animal most willing to obey the commands of a rabbit. -Robert Brault, writer (b. 1938)

IP Logged

Mark Seasoned Member Posts: 177	Re: Loudness imbalance in speakers: Reply #16 - 11/27/12 at 02:04:14 Oddly enough, my avatar kind of mirrors the problem I think I have... The early reflections from the nearer (rt.) corner, plus the extra wall behind the right speaker may be causing the difference in percieved loudness...
Back to top	If a rabbit defined intelligence the way man does, then the most intelligent animal would be a rabbit, followed by the animal most willing to obey the commands of a rabbit. -Robert Brault, writer (b. 1938) IP Logged

will

Seasoned Member

Posts: 819

Re: Loudness imbalance in speakers:
Reply #17 - 11/27/12 at 03:30:50

Mark,

I agree the right walls are the most obvious possible issue, but I always start with subtler stuff to avoid too much obvious room treatment in my living area.

Comb filtering (where the 1st bounce reflection wave form is exactly opposite, one with the hump below and center, and the other above and center, or different offsets of this) or frequency specific enhancement (the opposite, where the 2nd wave form is parallel or some offset) can be huge. Straight on placement is the best way to get these. It can be many times 3db.

If the 1st bounce causes them to hit the side walls first, this sets a very complicated pattern that can help.

Perceived volume can have loads to do with mid mids up.

Back to top

« Last Edit: 11/27/12 at 03:34:12 by will »

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, Oppo 83 (modded), ZSTAGE, TORII MkIII, Zen styx, Ziegler HR-ONEs...VHaudio, Reality, MAC ICs.... PI Audio Uberbuss....PI, VHaudio, Cryoparts power cables, HerbiesAudioLab feet and tube dampers.

IP Logged

will Seasoned Member Posts: 819	Re: Loudness imbalance in speakers: Reply #18 - 11/27/12 at 03:50:59 Mark, If you really want to check the side wall proximity, for test purposes, you could put the system centered on the long wall briefly. This is likely the best start anyway if there is any possibility of changing the furniture into a nice configuration this way.
Back to top	Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, Oppo 83 (modded), ZSTAGE, TORII MkIII, Zen styx, Ziegler HR-ONEs...VHaudio, Reality, MAC ICs.... PI Audio Uberbuss....PI, VHaudio, Cryoparts power cables, HerbiesAudioLab feet and tube dampers. IP Logged

Mark

Seasoned Member

Posts: 177

Re: Loudness imbalance in speakers:
Reply #19 - 11/27/12 at 13:08:48

Will: I thought about that; however, the photo does not show that a heating baseboard turns at the corner, then contines on a bit, and the console table almost butts up against the end of it on the right... I'd have to pull out the table much more to get in front of it, and also risk heat damage to my table and equipment...

I'd love to get the speakers another 2ft. apart, then toe them in a bit... That would be about perfect, scale-wise in my room...

I also have a Harrison Labs 2 ch. adjustable attenuator box for line-levels... Since I have two program sources, I could simply use it to cut the signal coming from the two right channels on my tuner and cdp, then go into the amp... But this has its drawbacks, as it inserts more pots into the system, which warms up the sound... I already have pots on the CD output, and of course the pots on the amp input for volume control... I don't want to dumb down the system any more than necessary... (m.)

Back to top

« Last Edit: 11/27/12 at 13:14:09 by Mark »

If a rabbit defined intelligence the way man does, then the most intelligent animal would be a rabbit, followed by the animal most willing to obey the commands of a rabbit. -Robert Brault, writer (b. 1938)

IP Logged

jpv Seasoned Member Cause inside everyone is a heavy metal kid Posts: 110	Re: Loudness imbalance in speakers: Reply #20 - 11/27/12 at 13:09:16 Mark, I know you don't have much flexability to move you equipment but you could try this. Move the rack to the corner where the lamp is and place it on an angle. This will give both speakers the same reflection points. I have set up systems this way with good results there placement like yours is differcult. John
Back to top	VPI Scoutmaster, Grado Sonata1, Counterpoint pre amp and amp (modded by Altavista Audio), Proac sp. and home made subs. Lots of room treatment. Anti-cable sp cables, Decware IC, ZKit 1. IP Logged

Mark Seasoned Member Posts: 177	Re: Loudness imbalance in speakers: Reply #21 - 11/27/12 at 13:36:58 J: Great idea, but first let's look at that corner: As you can see, it has its own set of problems: An AC unit, window, and baseboard heating, which is on now for the winter...
Back to top	If a rabbit defined intelligence the way man does, then the most intelligent animal would be a rabbit, followed by the animal most willing to obey the commands of a rabbit. -Robert Brault, writer (b. 1938) IP Logged

Lon

Seasoned Member

"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 5264

Re: Loudness imbalance in speakers:
Reply #22 - 11/27/12 at 13:41:01

My not without cost suggestion: order a CSP2+* . . . or see if you can get Steve to add dual volume pots on the ZCD (mine had them).

* The sonic benefits of the CSP2+ far outweigh perceived loss from other interconnects, pots etc. and you'll have balance control via the trim pots, you can either adjust the input, output or both.

Back to top

« Last Edit: 11/27/12 at 13:42:38 by Lon »

Decware:ERR,HR-1,Styx,ZP3,CSP2+(2),Torii Mk III
PS Audio PWT and PWD Mk II,PowerBase (2), PPP,AC-12 pc
Sony BPD-S5000ES
Denon DCD-A100
Rega RP3+TTPSU,white belt and Exact2
Cryoset, VooDoo AudioICs
Mapleshade Samson v2+v3 and 4"platforms
Herbie's Audio Lab p

IP Logged

Mark Seasoned Member Posts: 177	Re: Loudness imbalance in speakers: Reply #23 - 11/27/12 at 13:46:40 Lon: I was thinking that very thing about the ZCD... That would at least give me some control over the situation... Of course, it would leave the tuner out of the equation, but I don't listen to the tuner all that critically, even though HD radio is very good...
Back to top	If a rabbit defined intelligence the way man does, then the most intelligent animal would be a rabbit, followed by the animal most willing to obey the commands of a rabbit. -Robert Brault, writer (b. 1938) IP Logged

Lon Seasoned Member "Love without guts is worthless!" Philip K. D*ck Posts: 5264	Re: Loudness imbalance in speakers: Reply #24 - 11/27/12 at 14:04:08 The CSP2+ would allow you to add the tuner. Worth considering. . . . Before adding on vinyl listening to my daily repretoire (something I can't think of doing without now) I kept trying to do without my CSP2 or CSP2+ in the chain, but I have stopped resisting, it's just part of the magic, and it's so flexible.
Back to top	Decware:ERR,HR-1,Styx,ZP3,CSP2+(2),Torii Mk III PS Audio PWT and PWD Mk II,PowerBase (2), PPP,AC-12 pc Sony BPD-S5000ES Denon DCD-A100 Rega RP3+TTPSU,white belt and Exact2 Cryoset, VooDoo AudioICs Mapleshade Samson v2+v3 and 4"platforms Herbie's Audio Lab p IP Logged

Mark Seasoned Member Posts: 177	Re: Loudness imbalance in speakers: Reply #25 - 11/27/12 at 14:09:41 Lon: The CSP is a preamp only, and that would put me in need of something like the Taboo, right?... And that runs in pentode mode, right?...
Back to top	If a rabbit defined intelligence the way man does, then the most intelligent animal would be a rabbit, followed by the animal most willing to obey the commands of a rabbit. -Robert Brault, writer (b. 1938) IP Logged

Lon Seasoned Member "Love without guts is worthless!" Philip K. D*ck Posts: 5264	Re: Loudness imbalance in speakers: Reply #26 - 11/27/12 at 14:12:41 As a preamp (and headphone amplifier) the CSP2+ would match up wonderfully with your current amp, and allow you switching between two sources.
Back to top	Decware:ERR,HR-1,Styx,ZP3,CSP2+(2),Torii Mk III PS Audio PWT and PWD Mk II,PowerBase (2), PPP,AC-12 pc Sony BPD-S5000ES Denon DCD-A100 Rega RP3+TTPSU,white belt and Exact2 Cryoset, VooDoo AudioICs Mapleshade Samson v2+v3 and 4"platforms Herbie's Audio Lab p IP Logged

Mark

Seasoned Member

Posts: 177

Re: Loudness imbalance in speakers:
Reply #27 - 11/27/12 at 14:23:39

Just realized that... Thanks... Idea: Instead of adding wall treatment that takes away sound / reflections, why not add a floor-standing panel to the LEFT of the left speaker?... I could make it out of 5/8" firecode drywall, just like my current walls... I could even put little wheels on it to roll it out of the way when not in use...

My concern is that I'm right at the margin right now as far as amp power, and any wall treatment that takes away SPL might put me below the margin... (m.)

Back to top

If a rabbit defined intelligence the way man does, then the most intelligent animal would be a rabbit, followed by the animal most willing to obey the commands of a rabbit. -Robert Brault, writer (b. 1938)

IP Logged

jpv Seasoned Member Cause inside everyone is a heavy metal kid Posts: 110	Re: Loudness imbalance in speakers: Reply #28 - 11/27/12 at 14:40:32 Mark, I don't think other thean a heat issue placing the system in the corner would be that bad. I would add loudness. Where do you sit when you listen? Is the table in front of you?
Back to top	VPI Scoutmaster, Grado Sonata1, Counterpoint pre amp and amp (modded by Altavista Audio), Proac sp. and home made subs. Lots of room treatment. Anti-cable sp cables, Decware IC, ZKit 1. IP Logged

Mark

Seasoned Member

Posts: 177

Re: Loudness imbalance in speakers:
Reply #29 - 11/27/12 at 14:50:06

J: I usually sit way off, about 10 ft. from the whole system, out in the room somewhere [not in photo]... The table shown is very close to the system, and that is why I used a taller table to set the speakers on, which also serves to house the system...

I just don't think the corner thing would work, long-term... It might be good to just try to see what's going on... Although the corner thing would work well if I got dedicated speakers stands... That might be good... (m.)

Back to top

If a rabbit defined intelligence the way man does, then the most intelligent animal would be a rabbit, followed by the animal most willing to obey the commands of a rabbit. -Robert Brault, writer (b. 1938)

IP Logged