Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Decware Audio Forums
10/23/14 at 04:32:15


Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
EL 84's (Read 2902 times)
KMokc
Senior Member
***




Posts: 53
EL 84's
11/18/12 at 03:35:05
 
I have now tried a pair of RCA Grey plates and Mullard EL84's both have suffered from have very little volume and so muffled the music sounds terrible. †I have also tried a pair of Valve Art EL84's and they don't have this problem. With that said the Valve Art's don't hold a candle to the stock Russian tubes.

Does anyone have any ideas why these tubes sound this way? Bad ????????

Thanks,
Kevin Sad Embarrassed
Back to top
 
 

Sys 1:Decware Zen Select,Blumenstein Deluxe Orcas,Teac UD-501,MacBook Pro,Kimber USB,Mac RCA's I-Pad Mini as remote. Sys 2:Quicksilver Mini Mites,Passive Pre,Madisound BK-12 w/Fostex FE126-en,Teac UD-501,Mac Mini,VPI Traveler TT w/Dynavector 20x2 H ,Grover Huffman
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7687
Re: EL 84's
Reply #1 - 11/18/12 at 12:46:45
 
Kevin, have you any idea what values these tubes have, have you tested them?  Low output and a muffled sound would lead me to think that those tubes are past their prime and worn out.
Back to top
 
 

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,
PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
  IP Logged
Rivieraranch
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1274
Re: EL 84's
Reply #2 - 11/18/12 at 13:25:20
 
The Zen will light up an EL84 but the amp won't sound good at all. I suspect nothing is wrong with the tubes; you are hearing exactly what I heard when I popped EL84's into mine. Get them the hell out of there and use only good SV83 or 6P15P-EV tubes and you will be fine.
Back to top
 
 

DECWARE CSP2+, TABOO MK III; SE84CKC; HR1; TRAPEZIUM DESKTOP SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 turntable; Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CD player; MARANTZ 2226B, 2216B receivers; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
  IP Logged
KMokc
Senior Member
***




Posts: 53
Re: EL 84's
Reply #3 - 11/18/12 at 15:32:24
 
Hi Lon,
Supposedly check out good on a Knight KG 600B tester. I would have to agree about being bad. Question is can a tube check out good and sound bad? I would have to say yes? My only other test is the Valve Art EL 84's and they play however they just don't have any magic. Don't get we wrong they sound clean but that is it - BORING.

Kevin Shocked Huh

PS Best so far is a Philips 5R4GYS (from Upscale Audio) Stock SV83's and a Ediswan CV2492/6922 Cryo (from Upscale Audio). This setup really makes the JM Labs Micron Karats sing just not quite loud enough for anything other than nearfield.
Back to top
 
 

Sys 1:Decware Zen Select,Blumenstein Deluxe Orcas,Teac UD-501,MacBook Pro,Kimber USB,Mac RCA's I-Pad Mini as remote. Sys 2:Quicksilver Mini Mites,Passive Pre,Madisound BK-12 w/Fostex FE126-en,Teac UD-501,Mac Mini,VPI Traveler TT w/Dynavector 20x2 H ,Grover Huffman
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7687
Re: EL 84's
Reply #4 - 11/18/12 at 15:55:46
 
Hey, sure they could just be bad sounding tubes. And there's truth to what Jim says above, although I think EL84s can still sound good in the amps. When I bought my first Decware amp (#27, before any A, B or C revisions) it was designed around the EL84 and EL84s sounded very good in them. I sent it back a bit later for the first revision, A, which was to implement 6N1P and SV83 tubes, and the EL84s didn't sound as good as SV83s in the amp then. The same was true with the Select I later bought. EL84s sounded more old school and quite polite. Good for some source material.

Have you tried 5U4G rectifiers? The EL84s liked the juice from those in my amps. Woke them up and they smelled the coffee.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 11/18/12 at 16:04:54 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,
PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
  IP Logged
KMokc
Senior Member
***




Posts: 53
Re: EL 84's
Reply #5 - 11/18/12 at 16:48:20
 
H Lon,
Thanks for the input. I took out the 5R4GYS and put in the stock 5U4G tube. That obtained some more volume however they (both RCA & Mullard) EL84's sound is so muffled its terrible.

Thanks,
Kevin Embarrassed
Back to top
 
 

Sys 1:Decware Zen Select,Blumenstein Deluxe Orcas,Teac UD-501,MacBook Pro,Kimber USB,Mac RCA's I-Pad Mini as remote. Sys 2:Quicksilver Mini Mites,Passive Pre,Madisound BK-12 w/Fostex FE126-en,Teac UD-501,Mac Mini,VPI Traveler TT w/Dynavector 20x2 H ,Grover Huffman
  IP Logged
Rivieraranch
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1274
Re: EL 84's
Reply #6 - 11/18/12 at 17:23:23
 
Save the EL84's for when you get a TABOO.
Back to top
 
 

DECWARE CSP2+, TABOO MK III; SE84CKC; HR1; TRAPEZIUM DESKTOP SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 turntable; Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CD player; MARANTZ 2226B, 2216B receivers; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7687
Re: EL 84's
Reply #7 - 11/18/12 at 17:30:55
 
Alright. Well that tube type just doesn't sound good in your amp. Let the world now know! Smiley
Back to top
 
 

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,
PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
  IP Logged
Rob
Senior Member
***


I love YaBB 1G -
SP1!

Posts: 69
Re: EL 84's
Reply #8 - 01/16/13 at 01:11:43
 
I  FAR prefer  SV83/6N15Ps  TO EL84S....  for  most  things.

I  like the EL84s paired  the  higher-gain 6N2Ps   for  some  classical  music  though.
Back to top
 
 

(2) SE84C-Selects
HDTs w/Aurum Cantis Ribbons on home-made 2" solid maple plinths
Sunfire True Sub(x'ed@42hz/o gain)
Shanling CDT100(hot-modded)
PSAudio 600
Custom 99.999% silver sprk cables & ICs
Decware silver/teflon "Y"
Lots-a-tubes,cones & spikes
  IP Logged
meraklya
Verified Member
**




Posts: 29
Re: EL 84's
Reply #9 - 04/06/13 at 13:55:29
 
I purchased a pair of premium NOS Tungsram EL84's, from a reputable tube store. The tubes were tested and matched prior to shipping.

I had the same results with them as the OP: very low volume and muffled sound (and this ain't subtle!!!)

Question is, the original post is from November 2012. Do the designers read these forums at all? If so, why is the amplifier still claimed to be fully "EL84 compatible"?

The only reason why I decided to purchase this particular Decware amplifier (rather than a more powerful one such as "Rachel") is so that I could have "EL84 sound" I fell in love with when I had my Miniwatt N3.

Excuse me for not being a fanboy, but I'll have to say this is just a huge omission on Decware's part.
Back to top
 
 

Decware SE84ZS, Yamaha AS2000 as phonostage/pre, Rega RP6, Teac UD-501 DSD DAC, MacBook Pro/Audirvana Plus, Yamaha CD-S1000 for SACD, Focal 806v
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7687
Re: EL 84's
Reply #10 - 04/06/13 at 15:08:07
 
Interesting. In my Rev. A SE84 and my Select EL84s did NOT sound as good as SV83 tubes, but didn't sound awful. Have you tried any other EL84 tubes in the machine besides the Tung-Sol?  I have not used Tung-Sol EL84s in the past, but I've never been too impressed with the Tung-Sol sound in other tube types. . . .

I don't think the claim to be totally compatible with EL84 is wrong, but the machines I had shine with the SV83 tube and are optimized for that.
Back to top
 
 

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,
PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
  IP Logged
Pale Rider
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1272
Re: EL 84's
Reply #11 - 04/06/13 at 16:03:47
 
Quote:
Question is, the original post is from November 2012. Do the designers read these forums at all? If so, why is the amplifier still claimed to be fully "EL84 compatible"?
<SNIP>
Excuse me for not being a fanboy, but I'll have to say this is just a huge omission on Decware's part.

I dunno. The fact that a couple of NOS tubes don't sound great doesn't strike me as any sort of glaring omission. And while the amp is obviously designed to work with the EL84, I did not see anything on the website that says "will sound great with every EL84 tube made." In fact, the website and Steve are quite plain that this amp will sound its bestóby a wide marginówith the SV83, and he explains why.

Don't get me wrong, I understand your frustration. But just for fun, I threw a couple of JJ EL84 tubes in my ZS, and they worked just fine. Didn't sound great, but they weren't muffled and underpowered. They glowed and produced decent, if constrained sound, with a narrow perspective on the soundstage and somewhat hardened vocals and guitar, but nothing like the SV83 (granted, no break-in time, but obviously "working").

FWIW, I use my ZS as a center channel amp for a single ERR speaker. I played AIX BluRay discs of Rita Coolidge and Moonlight Acoustica for this little check. Signal tube was a National, rectifier is the Phillips of which Upscale is making such a fuss.
Back to top
 
 

Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
  IP Logged
meraklya
Verified Member
**




Posts: 29
Re: EL 84's
Reply #12 - 04/23/13 at 15:34:51
 
OK, here's the deal. The SE84ZS is NOT compatible with any European EL84 tubes due to slightly different internals.

I installed a set of Preferred Series EL84 from The Tube Store (originally premium long life Russian military tubes), and was blown away. The warmth, the lush sound... the sound slowed down a bit compared to SV83 but I hear more details and the instruments have wonderful tonality and just sound more real to my ears...
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 04/23/13 at 22:15:27 by meraklya »  

Decware SE84ZS, Yamaha AS2000 as phonostage/pre, Rega RP6, Teac UD-501 DSD DAC, MacBook Pro/Audirvana Plus, Yamaha CD-S1000 for SACD, Focal 806v
  IP Logged
Rivieraranch
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1274
Re: EL 84's
Reply #13 - 04/23/13 at 21:10:36
 
These are 6P14P-EV tubes, which closely correspond to the 7189.
Back to top
 
 

DECWARE CSP2+, TABOO MK III; SE84CKC; HR1; TRAPEZIUM DESKTOP SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 turntable; Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CD player; MARANTZ 2226B, 2216B receivers; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
  IP Logged
meraklya
Verified Member
**




Posts: 29
Re: EL 84's
Reply #14 - 04/23/13 at 22:13:57
 
So you're saying they're not EL84?
Back to top
 
 

Decware SE84ZS, Yamaha AS2000 as phonostage/pre, Rega RP6, Teac UD-501 DSD DAC, MacBook Pro/Audirvana Plus, Yamaha CD-S1000 for SACD, Focal 806v
  IP Logged
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print