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HR-1-Zen Omni's (Read 11831 times)
Donnie
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HR-1-Zen Omni's
11/03/12 at 21:21:23
 
I just noticed on the Decware home page that the HR-1's are now up for sale.
As I know that I absolutely HAVE to have a pair in Koa wood, it looks like it is going to be a real crappy Christmas for family and frends. Sorry everyone, I have to pay Donnie first.
I want the speakers to match the floors in our upstairs family room, so I can't cheap out at this point, I will man up and pay the extra.
The wood floors look like this,
No that isn't my floor, I don't own a camera or even a cell phone to take a photo of mine, but it sure looks a lot like my floor.
I'm betting that ZYGI can make 'em compliment each other.
I'm going into full austerity mode so that I can get these baby's ordered early next spring.
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Mark
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #1 - 11/03/12 at 23:35:36
 
Hi: I would get a wood finish that has some contrast with your floor... It looks better to the eye...
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Donnie
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #2 - 11/04/12 at 02:11:36
 
Mark,
The speakers will be down in my fortified bunker, not in the family room.
I just wanted Koa for continuity throughout the house.
The big problem is figuring out how to hide the true cost from my wife. She thinks that my current computer-DAC-Torii-MG944's setup cost around $800 total. I feel somewhat bad about not telling her the complete truth, but what she does't know won't kill me.
Does anyone else have to resort to "cooking the books" for their hobby?
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Mark
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #3 - 11/04/12 at 03:52:50
 
There should be a patron saint of audio guilt...
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If a rabbit defined intelligence the way man does, then the most intelligent animal would be a rabbit, followed by the animal most willing to obey the commands of a rabbit. -Robert Brault, writer (b. 1938)
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Lon
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #4 - 11/04/12 at 04:27:15
 
What we need is a tax deduction.
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Rivieraranch
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #5 - 11/04/12 at 13:04:25
 
I don't have to cook the books because I have a track record of buying and selling DECWARE gear - which usually holds it value very well. Unlike those Gucci purses priced at $349.00 to $449.00 that I saw at a table at Costco yesterday . . .
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Donnie
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #6 - 11/04/12 at 14:29:17
 
I don't like bringing up the purse cost factor up in conversations with my wife. It got real ugly when I pointed out that a Walmart sack would serve the same function as the Coach bag she was carrying. Bad move on my part.
I guess that I could sell my MG's to help with the funding of the HR-1's, but in the back of my mind I'm toying around with the thought of giving them away at the next 'fest come October. Just a idea.
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Lon
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #7 - 11/04/12 at 15:36:53
 
The counter to the purse argument is hard to defend from the purse owner's viewpoint. . . wouldn't a receive and speakers from Target serve the same purpose as the Decware ones?
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #8 - 11/04/12 at 16:00:47
 
Lon:

The answer to your question is "no." The Target receiver and speakers will "wallpaper" the music and the DECWARE gear will involve you in the music.

This is much like why somebody would reject a ten buck quartz computer watch and embrace a timepiece with a fine case and Swiss-made mechanical movement; even thought the latter would technically keep more perfect time. You are buying the Swiss made mechanical timepiece to represent your relationship with time; not necessarily as the most accurate time keeper.

The purse argument is easily won on an economic analysis. used DECWARE gear keeps 60-90% of its original value; used, the purse is worth bupkus.
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Lon
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #9 - 11/04/12 at 16:21:50
 
You know different women than I do. I don't quite agree with the success of your defense; they'll offer the same sort of argument on the purses.

What has worked for me is I let my gal have what she wants. My lover girl wants Brahmin purses of Italian leather, and I have to confess they're as functionally beautiful as a Decware product is. Sure a ten dollar bag will hold the same things, but they don't look this way, feel this way, or make HER feel she looks like a million bucks and has a piece of art on her arm. She has five. . . and I know there will be more. In turn, she lets me have my audio art. We both enjoy what we have, together and separately.

Donnie, I hope you have a pair, AND keep the MGs as a back up, or for use elsewhere in your domain.
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« Last Edit: 11/04/12 at 17:31:32 by Lon »  

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Mark
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #10 - 11/04/12 at 16:30:58
 
I guess a worse case would be if your wife found out what you really payed for your audio gear AND that you gave the MGs away for nothing...

I would hope that there's nothing heavy in that purse... (m.)
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Chris K
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #11 - 11/04/12 at 17:01:45
 
"Oh Happy Day!"  ;D
At long last these fine speakers are officially "outed" by the Zen Master himself! This is a wonderfully welcomed update. This speaker is the only type of its kind. It is singular in its combination of cabinet shape/design omni directional driver and forward firing mid woofer/tweeter combination. No one but the designer himself has more experience with than me, and I say that with all humility and selfless approbation to Bob and Steve both. Listening to this speaker over a long time period has without a doubt been the most enduring and pleasant audio experience I have ever had in 40 years of listening. IMHO nothing is the end all/be all in high fidelity (read my MG944 review) but these diminutive obelisks do things so wonderfully across the spectrum that render music that "sings" to me every time I turn them on. In a word they make everything "better". They show every nuance that is in the recording yet have an uncanny ability to make average electronics sound so much better. When you put high end amps and sources on these it gets so stupidly good I shake my head and wonder how. The bass authority is astounding. They image and soundstage ANYWHERE! In a treated listening room there apparently just is no speaker in the room. At just under a yard tall and a one square foot footprint the WAF factor is off the chart. In wood or paint stunningly beautiful. The price point is multiples below what these compete with in sound quality. Thanks again Bob and Steve. My best and heartfelt hope is for these to fly off the craftsman's table by the dozens!
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« Last Edit: 11/04/12 at 17:35:33 by Chris K »  

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Lon
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #12 - 11/04/12 at 17:09:37
 
Have to agree. I'm listening to my pair now, and just love them. I love my ERRs as well, I think my ideal speaker would be another fusion of the two, but in this case I have two fantastic pairs of speakers that blow me away.

The bass from the HR-1s is stunning.I think this is the speaker that could put Bob's artistry on the map in the high end world if they could only find it. Here's to a big success!
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« Last Edit: 11/04/12 at 17:10:06 by Lon »  

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Donnie
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #13 - 11/04/12 at 17:55:32
 
The HR-1's became a must own to me within moments after hearing them. They just sounded "right" to me. Kind of like my MG's, but with something more.
In listening to them back to back with the Zen Open Baffles really pointed out what I liked about them. The ZOB's are what I originally thought I would want for my next speakers. But the HR-1's just were so warm and inviting to me. The sparkle of the treble is what really sold me.
I'm a sucker for high range openess, that and women who like expensive purses.
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Lon
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #14 - 11/04/12 at 18:48:38
 
:)
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #15 - 11/23/12 at 11:02:34
 
What makes these speakers so much more expensive then the rest of the tower from decware?
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #16 - 11/25/12 at 00:52:40
 
Quote:
What makes these speakers so much more expensive then the rest of the tower from decware?


The radial driver is hand made, hand voiced and hand matched for these speakers.  The cabinets are uniquely complicated, the top containing the drivers decoupled from the bottom of the cabinet make it difficult and time consuming to build.  Frankly these could early retail for $10.000 and still be better than most of the 10 grand speakers out there which was our intension.  The value for dollar spent ratio is exceptionally high.


Steve


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Donnie
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #17 - 11/28/12 at 23:18:44
 
I went to a local HiFi establishment today just out of curiosity to see what was what. I asked if they had somthing a little better than the surround sound systems that were in the main showroom.
They took me back into their "highend" room. Macintosh and B&W mostly, pretty nice looking stuff. They asked what I had, and from the blank look that they gave me it was obvious that Decware wasn't even on their radar.
Anyway, they fired up the best of what they had, sorry Charlie, pretty good but not near what I am used to.
Their $7500 speakers didn't sound as good as my MG944's and weren't even in the same zipcode as the HR-1's.
Truthfully, at that moment I became fully aware of how lucky we are to have people such as Steve and Bob building these wonderful products.
My brother, who is not into stereo's at all, was with me, and remarked how that my stereo sounded much better than what we had just listened to.
I'm offically a Decware junky now. I need to get enough money for my next fix!
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Lon
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #18 - 12/11/13 at 19:36:06
 
The HR-1 Zen Omni speakers NEED a forum of their own!

My second pair ships today. Man, to own two pairs of these and a pair of ERR. I'm living like a king! Cheesy
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Lonely Raven
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #19 - 12/11/13 at 19:51:18
 

I'm quite jealous. I really like those HR-1; they are just out of my price range for a while.
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #20 - 12/12/13 at 06:16:51
 
Quote:
Lon said,
The HR-1 Zen Omni speakers NEED a forum of their own!

My second pair ships today. Man, to own two pairs of these and a pair of ERR. I'm living like a king!


Wow, are you serious?  I'm so freaking jealous! Grin

What color did you get this time?  I belive the last ones were a hot-rod sort of color correct?
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #21 - 12/12/13 at 10:55:24
 
My original pair were one of the last prototypes before production models were made. They are a pewter sort of color. The new ones will be maple veneer. They'll go into my second system for thousands of hours. The ERRs in that system will go over to my Dad's system hopefully.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #22 - 01/29/14 at 07:58:10
 
I am so pleased with my ZMA (only in its 39th hour today).

I need to have the HR-1 for my ZMA, SE84CS and CKC. This means I have to cancel my Torii IV order to get the HR-1. I can't afford both this year. It will have to wait a year or two to hear the IV.

I read what Steve wrote, Chris K., Donnie & Lon. Lon you have two pair, so quite the endorsement! -S
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« Last Edit: 01/29/14 at 08:02:04 by stone_of_tone »  

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Lon
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #23 - 01/29/14 at 10:46:11
 
Yes, I have to send one speaker back, there's some distortion at higher volumes, but I love these speakers, and so will you. My oriiginal pair are ver well-seasoned and sound stunning. The Mk III and HR-1 combo are all I need.
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #24 - 01/30/14 at 20:00:51
 
The pricing on these speakers has seemed to double over the last few years since they were first introduced. is that right?

How well would they work in a 19x21ft room where they are about 2 feet from the back wall (long wall) and 9 ft away from my listening chair?
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« Last Edit: 01/30/14 at 20:04:22 by stellablues »  
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Lon
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #25 - 01/30/14 at 20:04:02
 
You weren't supposed to notice! Smiley

In my opinion they would not be all that they can be in that location, it would be best to get them further out from the wall.
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« Last Edit: 01/30/14 at 20:04:56 by Lon »  

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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #26 - 01/30/14 at 20:11:18
 
Yeah, I need a new space eventually but I enjoy saving the money to spend on the toys.

This is essentially a 250square foot studio and it holds my whole life. Tv, couch, bed, entryway, sitting area, office is in half the closet.  :-)  

At least its in a house so I can play at realistic volume into the night.

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Lon
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #27 - 01/30/14 at 20:54:16
 
Well, I lived like that years ago. I won't say happily, but I did. Didn't have that great a stereo then, but still had fun.

Don't get me wrong, the HR-1s will sound great, but are not going to image and sound stage the way they could in that arrangement.
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #28 - 01/31/14 at 06:15:03
 
Well, this is san diego. a house is $2500 and an apartment with no garage, neighbors on all sides and shared laundry is $1700. ususally with a 45 minute commute.

So I take my small space in exchange for playing jazz at realistic volumes any night of the week and a zma in the mail and 5 minutes to work. we all make sacrifices for our music addiction.
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #29 - 01/31/14 at 15:30:44
 
I can understand living that way, I just no longer could do so. Too much stuff, and even though I winnowed it down to move from Texas to Ohio to care for my parents, too much stuff, and I don't want to lessen what I have, the bulk of which is instruments, music and books I want to keep.

So I can't live in San Diego I guess. Good to know. Wink

I know you would love the HR-1s and I follow your logic. In time perhaps your ship will come in and you could get them room to breathe.
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #30 - 01/31/14 at 17:06:24
 
Stellablues, Depending on what you find, if you need to chill the bass and/or midbass due to close wall proximity, you may be able to adjust with speaker tuning...simple damping and/or strategically plugging the passive radiator vents.

The HR-1 is a great speaker.
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #31 - 02/05/14 at 20:42:06
 
I ordered a Pair.

12, 14 or 16 weeks out...I understand.

Question for Lon & Will? Is their an external Resistor used as found on the ERRx? Or, is their an internal Resistor and/or minimal crossover used because of the blending of the different drivers on different axises.

I ordered my HR-1's in Maple!  -Stone = Happy.
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #32 - 02/05/14 at 20:47:41
 
Awesome Stone!

I have my new pair in maple and they're LOVELY. My speaker sent back to Bob should be returnign to me soon. A bit of crud had gotten into (I think) the radial voice coil.

My two pair are different: the older pair has an external wire wound resistor, the new pair does not.
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will
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #33 - 02/05/14 at 21:34:17
 
Stone. I look forward to your new speakers! You are going to have quite a collection to compare!

I had mine built with the caps and resisters outside on the recessed binding post panel. If Bob is still offering this as an option, and you don't mind seeing the caps and resister, and if you want adjustability on the tweeter tone and balance, I would recommend it.

You obviously don't want to work too far out of the design in values, but there are a lot of "flavor" shifting possibilities with different caps, very low value bypasses, and resistors. I experimented a lot and kept up with Bob about what I was hearing. I don't know what he is putting in now, but my experiments changed the speaker for the better here, and Bob may have used some of this.

Mine sounded really good from the start, but I had to explore! I think I recall that hey shipped with Clarity Cap SA 3.3s and I believe a 3 ohm Wirewound resistor. I settled on 3.3 Mundorf Supreme caps with one Russian PIO .1 K40Y-9 bypassing altogether...from the hot speaker wire direct to the hot tweeter post. Also I have a .047 K40Y-9 wired parallel with the Mundorf 3.3....these come in after a Mundorf 2.7 resistor. All broken in, the sound is as clear in general as the original, but more smooth and refined by my ear, with less grain and more micro detail.

Be interesting to find out how Bob is wiring them these days. I bet they sound great.
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« Last Edit: 02/05/14 at 21:37:45 by will »  

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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #34 - 02/05/14 at 21:59:52
 
Bob mentioned to me that he is using Mundorf, I didn't go any further in discussion with him but he said tha the major difference between my older pair and the new is the use of the capacitors that were a result of your explorations.

I still personally prefer the older pair, but the new pair still have far fewer hours on them, less than a thousand I think, than it would take for them to really be all they can be.
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« Last Edit: 02/05/14 at 22:00:08 by Lon »  

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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #35 - 02/06/14 at 15:50:16
 
Thanks guys!

Sounds/looks like your awesome explorations Will...lead Bob/Zygi to implement the best Caps & Resistors on the inside cover of the Speaker binding posts....and leave it at that!

With your 2nd pair Lon having them (caps & resistors) internal/and chosen to be the best sounding of many combinations...I bet they burn in and sound as sweetly as your 1st pair. Is Bob doing a pretty quick turn-around for the one distorting Speaker? I bet the Maple is stunning too!

I am loving my ZMA. I now have 79.5 hours on it and counting. I went an Listened to all 49 minutes of the ZMA with the HR-1 Omni's from the the Zenfest Video. As best as can be discerned through my Beats Audio internal Speakers on my HP TouchSmart Desk Top....I like what I heard and seen. .......now the wait has begun.     -S
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« Last Edit: 02/06/14 at 15:55:43 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #36 - 02/06/14 at 15:53:35
 
Yes, he'll be shipping them back soon, probably in his hands less than a week. He got them Monday and has corrected the problem.

The two sound different which is not a bad thing. When fully burned in (personally I think we're talking about 2000 or more hours) I expect them to sound really good, and still different. Not that that is a bad thing.
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #37 - 02/06/14 at 16:00:37
 
True Lon, one caps/resistors version vs. the other. It will be interesting to hear which ones you prefer, say...come late fall this year....with many hours on them.
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #38 - 02/06/14 at 16:17:24
 
Yes. Definitely a first world problem!

Interestingly enough so far I prefer the new HR-1s with the OLD Mk III and the old HR-1s with the NEW Mk III.
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« Last Edit: 02/06/14 at 16:36:50 by Lon »  

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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #39 - 02/06/14 at 17:07:15
 
Very interesting.

I plan on calling Bob, when I get the "Build" stage email (understandably-probably in late May).

I hear that....our first world problems.
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #40 - 02/09/14 at 12:03:36
 
Well, my HR-1 speaker repair was a lot more extensive than initially thought, a driver needed to be replaced. Sigh. Now I'll need breakin in the second system for quite some time again. Should have it back tomorrow.
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #41 - 02/09/14 at 13:46:28
 
Now that Bob is done with your speaker, maybe he'll start building mine.  On the build list there is one pair of ERR's ordered in August then My HR-1s ordered in September.  So it shouldn't be long, unless Bob decides to torture me by building all 7 pairs of ERRs  ordered before starting My speakers. Mark.
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« Last Edit: 02/09/14 at 16:25:00 by mark58 »  
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #42 - 02/09/14 at 13:50:47
 
Here's hoping he gets to yours soon Mark! You're going to be very happy when they arrive. . . and after.
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #43 - 02/10/14 at 03:03:53
 
sorry if this has been mentioned previously. why the long wait on the speakers?

at 5k you would think they would like to get customers their order asap? if you make speakers then make speakers. if you don't then get stop offering a product...

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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #44 - 02/10/14 at 03:12:50
 
Well, the past year Bob had a heart attack and that set him back. He's catching up. As far as I know it's a two man father and son outfit, and care is taken to do them right, it's not a factory. I've always been satisfied with the product when received, view them worth the wait.
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #45 - 02/10/14 at 03:45:32
 
Understood. I was not trying to be insensitive just curious. even at 80 hours in a work week for two people, you would think that they could produce 1-2 speakers per week. but I have never produced any speaker myself so I wouldn't know what it takes.
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #46 - 02/10/14 at 14:05:40
 
It takes a lot of time to produce a speaker, depending on the speaker. On the outside they look like a box, but on the inside, its a different story. The HR-1s are not just a simple box. I make speakers for fun and last time I made some back loaded horns using the Fostex plans it took me 6 months, and that is just to put the box together. This did not include the finish which was a simple laquer with wood accents. Bob's speakers are a work of art. To this day I still don't know how he gets his veneer perfect in the corners. I have tried and you can still see the fine line seperation in the corners between the veneers. On the HR-1s I received I closely inspected the corners and they are perfect like the wood was painted on. Bob is a true craftsman and the HR-1s are a special speaker. The best speaker I have heard. They are worth the wait.
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #47 - 02/11/14 at 01:02:14
 
stellablues....I hear you, in fact I think the same thing sometimes.

A simple six sided box like the DM945's are what we call onion skinned where a "V" cutter crosscuts the MDF right to the veneer, with an over cut "V" grove then hot melt glue is used to wrap the speaker into a box. Many of these can be produced in a week this way. Steve has these done by a company in Cali which is why there are no options I think just cherry and black. This has taken those off my plate. I also was building amp bases, which don't show up on the order page that everyone gets to see. Since my heart attack, like Lon mentioned, these are also being done by the company in Cali., except for the custom woods, which I still do.

John AKA the deucekazoo, thanks for the compliment...

Lon, it is just two of us, but right now its my brother-in-law and my self.

I guess I'm a picky prick to work for, as I find it hard to find any help, right here in the middle of the largest us furniture manufacturers.
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #48 - 02/11/14 at 03:15:07
 
One of these days I am going to have to get around to hooking up mine!
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #49 - 02/11/14 at 03:20:51
 
BTW, I am the second owner of a pair of prototype HR-1's.  The first owner did not include resistors for the tweeters.  Does anyone know what values and which brand to use?  Thanks in advance for any help.
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #50 - 02/11/14 at 03:48:41
 
I use porcelain or cement wire-wound resistors, 10 watt variety with a high wattage. You may want to try 10, 20 and 30 ohm versions, not sure brands make much of a difference. . . .
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #51 - 02/11/14 at 04:03:46
 
Mine came with 3, 6, and 10 ohm 5w wirewounds as choices. I use 2.7 ohm mundorfs (they do not have 3 ohm). They sound smoother and more solid than Wirewounds.
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« Last Edit: 02/11/14 at 04:04:35 by will »  

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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #52 - 02/11/14 at 14:27:35
 
Got my speaker back yesterday. The pair are going back into "breakin' mode in my second system as it turns out one of the drivers had to be replaced. I'll see how long I can resist putting them back in my main system. My original pair are just blowing me away lately so no real need to hurry!
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #53 - 02/11/14 at 14:29:33
 
Will, you're not using sandcast right? You're using the metal oxide?

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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #54 - 02/11/14 at 19:00:14
 
Lon,

Sorry Lon. I am using 20 w M-Resist Supremes. I got 2R7 and 3R3.  They need breakin time....surprised? Research at the time led me to them, but can't remember details. They were worth it to me though over the original boxy ceramic sandcast ones...bigger, more solid and fluid/less tinselly if I recall.

Preferring the 3R Wirewounds Bob sent, I used the 3R3 Mundorfs at first, but then ended up with the 2.7s. Subtle differences between but real. I even experimented with straight copper (no resistor) just caps with various combined values within roughly 10 percent of the original 3.3, and had nice results. Seems there is a nice margin of sound flexibility from using different caps; cap combinations adding up to the value you want, and different resistor types and resistances.

Mine now is: A 2R7 Mundorf Supreme resistor followed by a Mundorf Supreme 3.3 cap parallel with a .047 K40Y-9 PIO, equaling a slightly higher value of 3.347 uf (over 3.3 Clarities). With the .047 they sound a little more refined with micro info, I guess due to the little cap refining the areas it allows through. Then there is a .1 K40Y-9 bypassing the above, going direct from the hot speaker post to the tweeter hot, enhancing the very highs a bit.

I just tried running the 3R3s and 2R7s in parallel (presumably = 6R) and the top was receded/quieter. Too quiet for me, but very good sound and quite similar tweeter tone.

Then I tried the 3R3 alone, and the highs came forward. The tweeter is a little quieter than with the 2R7s, but in a sense it sounded brighter/thinner than with the 2R7s alone. I am thinking that with the .1 PIO totally bypassing the rest, by lowering the volume of the main caps a little with the 3R3 resistor, the balance shifted high, the bypass cap now being a little more dominant in this mix.

So I took out the .1 bypass and the balance is good again. The tweeter less powerful in the whole mix, and sounds great. A little softer, but very nice. This combo is: Mundorf Supreme 3.3 + K40Y-9 .047 with a 3R3 Mundorf Supreme Resistor before the caps.

Now back to the 2R7 resistor followed by the Mundorf 3.3 parallel with the .047 K40Y-9, and with the .1 bypass back in, I still prefer this arrangement, here anyway. The top is textured, open and detailed, but beautifully smooth. In this system, it just sounds more natural this way with my MIII and with my MKIV. It is interesting how less treble can sound brighter and more brittle if the balance of high information is not just right.

So technically I have just a bit more treble info than the original HR-1, but it is very well balanced with my system, and it enhances the rest of the sonic range beautifully...I guess it is mostly attack and decay info that does this, but wow, it just makes the voices and instruments more complete, realer.

This is not to say this setup would be best for everyone...my HR-1s are tweaked in more ways than this, and then there is the system and room thing, but it has been a revealing exploration making these really great speakers greater to me.

All that said, just changing the resistors will only introduce the qualities of that particular resistor and effect tweeter volume with different resistances. If I recall, I the smoothness of the Mundorf M-resists (and their caps), made things seem less bright. So if anyone explores these resistors, it may be a better bet to do as I ended up. If you like 3R Wirewounds, I might try a 2R7 with the Mundorfs. Or if you like a 6 Wirewound, maybe try a 5.6 M-Resist.

Just a thought Wink

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« Last Edit: 02/11/14 at 19:43:19 by will »  

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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #55 - 02/11/14 at 20:31:46
 
Wow. I'm not sure I could go through that odyssey. I scale the tweeters way back, I just can't handle all that treble. I roll the tone control back on any guitar amp as well. And as I dial the tweeter back so much I'm not sure that I will actually see much benefit from different types of resistors. But I may try.
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #56 - 02/11/14 at 21:21:10
 
Ah it was over a few months of messing around.

I could see that it could be diminishing returns depending on how much you quiet the tweeter. The caps and resistors definitely change the sound, but if the tweeter is not much in the mix.....

What size resistor do you like? And is it the same on the new and the old pair?
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« Last Edit: 02/11/14 at 21:21:37 by will »  

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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #57 - 02/11/14 at 23:36:41
 
I've been using a 50 to 100 ohm on the original pair, swapping them in and out every few months or so and adjusting with the treble cut circuit. I think the 100 stay in more often than not believe it or not. So far I haven't used any on the new pair. . . they were just briefly in the main system, i was going to start experimenting along those lines when I discovered one speaker was distorting and sent it back.
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #58 - 02/12/14 at 01:53:06
 
Posted by: Lon Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #50 - Yesterday at 03:48:41   I use porcelain or cement wire-wound resistors, 10 watt variety with a high wattage. You may want to try 10, 20 and 30 ohm versions, not sure brands make much of a difference. . .

Posted by: Lon      Posted on: Yesterday at 23:36:41
I've been using a 50 to 100 ohm on the original pair, swapping them in and out every few months or so and adjusting with the treble cut circuit. I think the 100 stay in more often than not believe it or not. So far I haven't used any on the new pair. . . they were just briefly in the main system, i was going to start experimenting along those lines when I discovered one speaker was distorting and sent it back.

Posted by Will: Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #51 - Yesterday at 04:03:46   Mine came with 3, 6, and 10 ohm 5w wirewounds as choices. I use 2.7 ohm mundorfs (they do not have 3 ohm). They sound smoother and more solid than Wirewounds.

Thanks Lon and Will,

Jim
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« Last Edit: 02/12/14 at 02:01:38 by battjim »  
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #59 - 09/27/14 at 19:11:45
 
Well will, I ended up going to the resistor odyssey to get to that elusive "last five percent" some of us (most of us on this board it seems!) seek out of our systems.

I spent some time with the 56 ohm Mundorf metal oxide resistors in place in the HR-1 which I really do like, a lot. Smoothed out what was going to the tweeters in a very appealing way, and added a rich vibrancy to the sound. I used these on the ERRs at my parents as well, in tandem with installing Mundorf Supreme caps. Wow. Perfect there, done stop don't mess with it good.

But. . . a little too much reduction of treble energy in the main system, which surprised me, but with the edge those tweeters can give off tamed with the resistor I wanted more and it seems a sort of presence that is independent of the treble controls. So after referring to this thread a few times I decided to try the Mundorf M-Resist Supreme, 20 watt 33 ohm. At first I was "oh no what have I done as it was not at all great, but a few days later it's a great choice, gives me all the energy I need and the sound is so pure. . . but also full and rich. . . sort of what I feel is the sound of the Torii coming through unfutzed.

So thanks for sharing your journey will, it has helped me inch even closer to having the Torii be the amp I want it to be for my recordings.
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #60 - 09/27/14 at 22:43:37
 
Great news Lon. I am glad you got closer! It is interesting that you could go from 56 Mundorf metal oxide to 33 ohms with the M-Resist Supreme and not have that top edge you can't handle. The 20 watt M-resists really are nice, and this seems to be a tribute to that. More to come with more hours!

Balanced detail is becoming more and more a thing for me. Like I spoke to in an earlier post here....where if the combination of resistor size, caps and bypasses was not just right, a technically less bright setup can sound brighter. But if I consider it carefully, this makes sense. If the micro information is not complete, the top will be edgy. Whereas, if letting more micro detail through balances the top information, it fills out the detail by providing more textured highs, finally softening edges.

I know the thought of EQ makes your skin crawl, but I have proven this theory with it many times, where the sound seems a little bright in a rigid/edgy way, and I add 1/3 Db at something like 10.5-11KHz high shelf, and there goes the edge..Sweeter highs.

Very small bypasses (like .047uf or .1) using fluid caps like the K40Y-9s are really a good tool for this that costs little if you ever get in the mood to try to get a little more.
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« Last Edit: 09/28/14 at 06:11:56 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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