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HR-1-Zen Omni's (Read 12177 times)
stellablues
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #45 - 02/10/14 at 03:45:32
 
Understood. I was not trying to be insensitive just curious. even at 80 hours in a work week for two people, you would think that they could produce 1-2 speakers per week. but I have never produced any speaker myself so I wouldn't know what it takes.
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deucekazoo
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #46 - 02/10/14 at 14:05:40
 
It takes a lot of time to produce a speaker, depending on the speaker. On the outside they look like a box, but on the inside, its a different story. The HR-1s are not just a simple box. I make speakers for fun and last time I made some back loaded horns using the Fostex plans it took me 6 months, and that is just to put the box together. This did not include the finish which was a simple laquer with wood accents. Bob's speakers are a work of art. To this day I still don't know how he gets his veneer perfect in the corners. I have tried and you can still see the fine line seperation in the corners between the veneers. On the HR-1s I received I closely inspected the corners and they are perfect like the wood was painted on. Bob is a true craftsman and the HR-1s are a special speaker. The best speaker I have heard. They are worth the wait.
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ZYGI
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #47 - 02/11/14 at 01:02:14
 
stellablues....I hear you, in fact I think the same thing sometimes.

A simple six sided box like the DM945's are what we call onion skinned where a "V" cutter crosscuts the MDF right to the veneer, with an over cut "V" grove then hot melt glue is used to wrap the speaker into a box. Many of these can be produced in a week this way. Steve has these done by a company in Cali which is why there are no options I think just cherry and black. This has taken those off my plate. I also was building amp bases, which don't show up on the order page that everyone gets to see. Since my heart attack, like Lon mentioned, these are also being done by the company in Cali., except for the custom woods, which I still do.

John AKA the deucekazoo, thanks for the compliment...

Lon, it is just two of us, but right now its my brother-in-law and my self.

I guess I'm a picky prick to work for, as I find it hard to find any help, right here in the middle of the largest us furniture manufacturers.
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battjim
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #48 - 02/11/14 at 03:15:07
 
One of these days I am going to have to get around to hooking up mine!
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battjim
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #49 - 02/11/14 at 03:20:51
 
BTW, I am the second owner of a pair of prototype HR-1's.  The first owner did not include resistors for the tweeters.  Does anyone know what values and which brand to use?  Thanks in advance for any help.
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Lon
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #50 - 02/11/14 at 03:48:41
 
I use porcelain or cement wire-wound resistors, 10 watt variety with a high wattage. You may want to try 10, 20 and 30 ohm versions, not sure brands make much of a difference. . . .
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will
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #51 - 02/11/14 at 04:03:46
 
Mine came with 3, 6, and 10 ohm 5w wirewounds as choices. I use 2.7 ohm mundorfs (they do not have 3 ohm). They sound smoother and more solid than Wirewounds.
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« Last Edit: 02/11/14 at 04:04:35 by will »  

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Lon
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #52 - 02/11/14 at 14:27:35
 
Got my speaker back yesterday. The pair are going back into "breakin' mode in my second system as it turns out one of the drivers had to be replaced. I'll see how long I can resist putting them back in my main system. My original pair are just blowing me away lately so no real need to hurry!
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Lon
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #53 - 02/11/14 at 14:29:33
 
Will, you're not using sandcast right? You're using the metal oxide?

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will
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #54 - 02/11/14 at 19:00:14
 
Lon,

Sorry Lon. I am using 20 w M-Resist Supremes. I got 2R7 and 3R3.  They need breakin time....surprised? Research at the time led me to them, but can't remember details. They were worth it to me though over the original boxy ceramic sandcast ones...bigger, more solid and fluid/less tinselly if I recall.

Preferring the 3R Wirewounds Bob sent, I used the 3R3 Mundorfs at first, but then ended up with the 2.7s. Subtle differences between but real. I even experimented with straight copper (no resistor) just caps with various combined values within roughly 10 percent of the original 3.3, and had nice results. Seems there is a nice margin of sound flexibility from using different caps; cap combinations adding up to the value you want, and different resistor types and resistances.

Mine now is: A 2R7 Mundorf Supreme resistor followed by a Mundorf Supreme 3.3 cap parallel with a .047 K40Y-9 PIO, equaling a slightly higher value of 3.347 uf (over 3.3 Clarities). With the .047 they sound a little more refined with micro info, I guess due to the little cap refining the areas it allows through. Then there is a .1 K40Y-9 bypassing the above, going direct from the hot speaker post to the tweeter hot, enhancing the very highs a bit.

I just tried running the 3R3s and 2R7s in parallel (presumably = 6R) and the top was receded/quieter. Too quiet for me, but very good sound and quite similar tweeter tone.

Then I tried the 3R3 alone, and the highs came forward. The tweeter is a little quieter than with the 2R7s, but in a sense it sounded brighter/thinner than with the 2R7s alone. I am thinking that with the .1 PIO totally bypassing the rest, by lowering the volume of the main caps a little with the 3R3 resistor, the balance shifted high, the bypass cap now being a little more dominant in this mix.

So I took out the .1 bypass and the balance is good again. The tweeter less powerful in the whole mix, and sounds great. A little softer, but very nice. This combo is: Mundorf Supreme 3.3 + K40Y-9 .047 with a 3R3 Mundorf Supreme Resistor before the caps.

Now back to the 2R7 resistor followed by the Mundorf 3.3 parallel with the .047 K40Y-9, and with the .1 bypass back in, I still prefer this arrangement, here anyway. The top is textured, open and detailed, but beautifully smooth. In this system, it just sounds more natural this way with my MIII and with my MKIV. It is interesting how less treble can sound brighter and more brittle if the balance of high information is not just right.

So technically I have just a bit more treble info than the original HR-1, but it is very well balanced with my system, and it enhances the rest of the sonic range beautifully...I guess it is mostly attack and decay info that does this, but wow, it just makes the voices and instruments more complete, realer.

This is not to say this setup would be best for everyone...my HR-1s are tweaked in more ways than this, and then there is the system and room thing, but it has been a revealing exploration making these really great speakers greater to me.

All that said, just changing the resistors will only introduce the qualities of that particular resistor and effect tweeter volume with different resistances. If I recall, I the smoothness of the Mundorf M-resists (and their caps), made things seem less bright. So if anyone explores these resistors, it may be a better bet to do as I ended up. If you like 3R Wirewounds, I might try a 2R7 with the Mundorfs. Or if you like a 6 Wirewound, maybe try a 5.6 M-Resist.

Just a thought Wink

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« Last Edit: 02/11/14 at 19:43:19 by will »  

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Lon
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #55 - 02/11/14 at 20:31:46
 
Wow. I'm not sure I could go through that odyssey. I scale the tweeters way back, I just can't handle all that treble. I roll the tone control back on any guitar amp as well. And as I dial the tweeter back so much I'm not sure that I will actually see much benefit from different types of resistors. But I may try.
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will
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #56 - 02/11/14 at 21:21:10
 
Ah it was over a few months of messing around.

I could see that it could be diminishing returns depending on how much you quiet the tweeter. The caps and resistors definitely change the sound, but if the tweeter is not much in the mix.....

What size resistor do you like? And is it the same on the new and the old pair?
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« Last Edit: 02/11/14 at 21:21:37 by will »  

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Lon
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #57 - 02/11/14 at 23:36:41
 
I've been using a 50 to 100 ohm on the original pair, swapping them in and out every few months or so and adjusting with the treble cut circuit. I think the 100 stay in more often than not believe it or not. So far I haven't used any on the new pair. . . they were just briefly in the main system, i was going to start experimenting along those lines when I discovered one speaker was distorting and sent it back.
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battjim
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #58 - 02/12/14 at 01:53:06
 
Posted by: Lon Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #50 - Yesterday at 03:48:41   I use porcelain or cement wire-wound resistors, 10 watt variety with a high wattage. You may want to try 10, 20 and 30 ohm versions, not sure brands make much of a difference. . .

Posted by: Lon      Posted on: Yesterday at 23:36:41
I've been using a 50 to 100 ohm on the original pair, swapping them in and out every few months or so and adjusting with the treble cut circuit. I think the 100 stay in more often than not believe it or not. So far I haven't used any on the new pair. . . they were just briefly in the main system, i was going to start experimenting along those lines when I discovered one speaker was distorting and sent it back.

Posted by Will: Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #51 - Yesterday at 04:03:46   Mine came with 3, 6, and 10 ohm 5w wirewounds as choices. I use 2.7 ohm mundorfs (they do not have 3 ohm). They sound smoother and more solid than Wirewounds.

Thanks Lon and Will,

Jim
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« Last Edit: 02/12/14 at 02:01:38 by battjim »  
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Lon
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Re: HR-1-Zen Omni's
Reply #59 - 09/27/14 at 19:11:45
 
Well will, I ended up going to the resistor odyssey to get to that elusive "last five percent" some of us (most of us on this board it seems!) seek out of our systems.

I spent some time with the 56 ohm Mundorf metal oxide resistors in place in the HR-1 which I really do like, a lot. Smoothed out what was going to the tweeters in a very appealing way, and added a rich vibrancy to the sound. I used these on the ERRs at my parents as well, in tandem with installing Mundorf Supreme caps. Wow. Perfect there, done stop don't mess with it good.

But. . . a little too much reduction of treble energy in the main system, which surprised me, but with the edge those tweeters can give off tamed with the resistor I wanted more and it seems a sort of presence that is independent of the treble controls. So after referring to this thread a few times I decided to try the Mundorf M-Resist Supreme, 20 watt 33 ohm. At first I was "oh no what have I done as it was not at all great, but a few days later it's a great choice, gives me all the energy I need and the sound is so pure. . . but also full and rich. . . sort of what I feel is the sound of the Torii coming through unfutzed.

So thanks for sharing your journey will, it has helped me inch even closer to having the Torii be the amp I want it to be for my recordings.
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