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Herbie's Audio Lab products discussion (Read 14354 times)
Mark
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Re: Herbie's Audio Lab products discussion
Reply #30 - 10/31/12 at 15:50:29
 
Also curious here if anyone has experimented with adding mass to any given component... That is, usually a weight or weights added to the chassis somewhere... Also, if anyone uses bitumen sheets inside any components... ???...  (m.)
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orangecrush
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Re: Herbie's Audio Lab products discussion
Reply #31 - 10/31/12 at 15:54:45
 
I had one made by http://www.timbernation.com/

Solid maple, inexpensive, decent workmanship.

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Lon
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Re: Herbie's Audio Lab products discussion
Reply #32 - 10/31/12 at 16:07:55
 
My main audio rack is a Mapleshade Samson rack. Pricey, but exactly what I wanted and I love it very much; have had it a number of years now and can't imagine being without it.

If I didn't have this I would probably have the Decware stand.

These things are always more money than you want to pay, but worth it imo.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Lon
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Re: Herbie's Audio Lab products discussion
Reply #33 - 10/31/12 at 16:20:25
 
Mark wrote on 10/31/12 at 15:50:29:
Also curious here if anyone has experimented with adding mass to any given component... That is, usually a weight or weights added to the chassis somewhere... Also, if anyone uses bitumen sheets inside any components... ???...  (m.)


Mark, I've had some experience toying around with adding weight to a component top, mostly Mapleshade brass feet and Herbie's Audio Lab Sonic Stabilizers. There's a very thin line between improved sound and deadened sound is my experience, and I settled on the Sonic Stabilizers as not being overkill, and giving possibly a subtle difference.

I found this review of your amp stand and the reviewer also mentions mass loading both a component, and a stand itself without adding weight to a component:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue31/racks.htm

I've used this latter recently. I have my turntable on a extremely strong maple end table that has two shelves. On the top shelf I have my Rega RP3 on top of a 4" maple platform. On the middle shelf I have my DVR on top of a 3" maple platform, and these two platforms add a lot of weight. On the bottom shelf for a spell I just had the TTPSU power supply for my RP3, a tiny little thing that I had sitting on a 1.5" mytlewood stand I bought from ebay. Later I added a defunct PS Audio P300 Power Plant that had been in the closet for years. Not only did the added mass make a difference, imo, to the sound but I also had a great place to ground my phono preamp and CSP2+ to. I was surprised at the benefit.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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will
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Re: Herbie's Audio Lab products discussion
Reply #34 - 11/01/12 at 03:19:48
 
I find that mass, like isolation is variable and suspect in has to do with many things, not least of which, the level of vibration, the component design, the mass composition and surface relationship to the component...and whether it compliments the voicing. But generally, I think both can be good.

I use a 2lb rock on my Mac Mini, and with carbon feet, I definitely get a better sense of solidity and body. I have some of Herbie's Sonic Stabilizers on my DAC and remember liking this effect with a similar feeling.

I like Herbie's stuff in general. But I had vibration problems using a cabinet in an alcove behind my speakers to put gear in...I had resonance damping on shelves, cab walls and between shelves, hard fiberboard in it to chill/absorb the vibrations, and several bass traps and other absorption stuff built into the alcove, but Herbie's stuff improved things.

I don't know why, but I can hear everything, including location changes with the Iso-Cups under the Torii MkIII. HDJP that you (and your wife) can't hear the isolation when your amp is on the same surface as speakers, and can't hear a better cord, is definately worth lookiing into. I think you must have a bottle neck somewhere that is truncating your sound. May be speaker cables or ICs, your computer, or cables to the DAC. Are you using good software in your computer to cut off extraneous operations and as a player? Are you using a USB cable that isolates computer noise? Solving the problem (s), and being able to hear these things will make your music way better...the potential magic of Decware.

I have four of the older "high end" bases for the Iso-Cups, frosted silicone cup, and lampblack balls. I have tried the frosted Acrylic balls and find they sound good, but a little "plastic" and slightly unbalanced to me...leaner mids up, and a bit full in the bass. I keep trying, but end up finding the lampblack balls best for me...richer, balanced, and natural sounding. Location definitely matters though, and this could explain my not preferring the frosted balls to some degree. Who knows if I would like them in other locations, but I like the lampblacks where they are...under the center power tubes, and near the outside/back corners of the outside transformers.

I have used a couple sorbithane based feet, and they sound like they feel...sort of rubbery and veiled. I can't say why, but to my ear, there is no question at all that different feet sound different. I have four or five kinds and they all impart characteristic sounds.

But back to Herbie's...I use thick grungebuster cut from a sheet for cabinet shelf isolation, and to keep cables from the cabinet structure.

I use Fat Dots under the cabinet (here the difference was sort of subtle, but I had done a lot of isolation already... I did however keep them), and Little Fat gliders under HR-1s. At first I did not like these, sounding a little too smooth and warm, but more inner detail was there too...HMMMM..... if I recall correctly, later I realized the spikes sound a bit too hard and bright for me once I adjusted to the isolation, the gliders being more complete and less edgy (my floor is brick on sand, so the spikes were active with this mass).

Same sort of thing happened with RX tube dampers for me...first too "warm" and smooth, then I realized the bright edges were probably distortions....finally I got to really liking the subtle information that was under this. I use them on the inputs, rectifiers and power tubes, though like Lon, the power tubes have often left me on the fence....the undamped tubes seem a bit more textural, softer, and give more impression of brightness. Damped there is more solid/inner information, but it can get a little bit defined and a little too smooth/warm. I find that my current preference is in between for the power tubes...I damp them, but have the damper about half way down the glass. The most damping is roughly right on the top mica, so this sort of splits the difference between damping and not by my ear. Finally, I think this stuff can be a matter of degrees...if the gear is isolated well, then tubedampers become less of a thing, but I like them.

I tend not to prefer tenderfeet (they generally sound a little soft and warm to me...), I use the ones I have for my hard drive, and under my EQVOX USB power brick, though I do like them under my ZDAC...I use hardwood cones that come to a fine point under my Tranquility, but it is on top of the ZDAC, so the tenderfeet are isolating what the Tranquility is on.

I think the main thing between decoupling and isolating is they sound quite different, and presumably, to truly couple, It seems you need serious mass, and the mass is going to pull off certain frequencies. So I find isolation a little easier and like it...but I also use some half baked combinations and like it on some parts....Finally seems it must be a matter of the sound we like best.
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« Last Edit: 11/01/12 at 03:23:44 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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Lon
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Re: Herbie's Audio Lab products discussion
Reply #35 - 11/01/12 at 05:27:05
 
will, thanks for weighing in. It's amazing how the locations of the Iso-Cups influences the sound from the Torii, and the different balls as well. I had all Lampblack balls for a while, but when I moved the the AC-12 power cords on the Torii and PS Audio front ends (digital and analog) and the CSP2+ I found they were too alive for me and too bright, and I went to the Acrylic, and finally settled on the Green Moss Quartz. The Acrylic are perfect under my speakers though, where the Lambplack were brightening and thinning the sound.

Like tube rolling these products are almost like a "set." The rack, whether there are platforms, etc. all are factors. This can draw one in the way that tube-rolling can. This can be a very rewarding hobby, as well as a sometimes frustrating one.

Winding up a night of DVR and DVD watching with a friend with some Monday Michiru, everything sounds so good.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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will
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Re: Herbie's Audio Lab products discussion
Reply #36 - 11/01/12 at 16:05:45
 
I agree Lon. For tuning a system to the exemplary, and to suit our personal tastes, these are very real tools.
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Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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HPDJ
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Re: Herbie's Audio Lab products discussion
Reply #37 - 11/01/12 at 16:38:32
 
Hey Will, thanks for the suggestions...all my wires (speaker cables/IC's) minus my power cables which are stock, are from Decware. I don't use my computer at all yet for listening to my music...it's either through my Opus 21 CDP (which is being repaired) or my vintage Denon turntable with Musical Surroundings phono preamp...all into my Mini Torii, into the Trapezium speakers...so I haven't used any computer software or usb cables up to this point...I will probably explore all that terrain in the near future since I got some great advice from folks on these threads...

The Bottleneck is most likely power related, which is why I will be demoing some gear from PI Audio/Triode Wire Labs as soon as my CDP get's back....that's when I'll probably order some DAC to demo for a month as well....speaking of which, how do you like your Tranquility DAC? I'm also looking into Audio by Van Alstine's vision hybrid DAC...

Lon posted a link earlier in the thread to an article on vibration isolation etc and at the end the author notes that he only had one instance where he heard no changes to the sound of a system when he used vibration controlling mesures....that particular system did not have clean power feeding the components and the cables were all tangled up or something....I'm definitely guilty of the former so I have to experiment with that and report back. Smiley
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will
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Re: Herbie's Audio Lab products discussion
Reply #38 - 11/01/12 at 19:36:23
 
HPDJ,

Interesting thought about the power...Mine was pretty good to start with I guess, as I have always had very revealing sound. But everything I have added to improve the electronic environment, from direct power conditioning, to room devices like schumann resonators and other magnetic field "cleaners", to little boxes of crystal "semiconductors" (that draw off line noise at outlets and cable ends, to good cable configurations, it all increased resolution and revelation enough to keep whatever the device at the time I was checking out beyond the trial period for me. And as to what this thread is all about....vibration control's reason for being is vibration effects on electronic parts!

I wonder about tubes too...are you using stock MT tubes...you can very likely increase inner detail with tubes without sacrifice...perhaps just the inputs.

I really like the Tranquility, but mine is tweaked to the gills....using a tweaked Mac Mini in front, good cables all around, just the "right" feet and weight for my tastes, an EQVOX USB power adapter, tweaked Pure Music software for the player, a firewire connected external hard drive....

I have a lot of flexibility in this setup for fine tuning and I really like this. My original setup had all of the above other than the EQVOX, and it was great then too. The USB power thing bypasses computer USB power, and therefore noise. At first I did not like it...too much inner detail (in serious listening mode), but after adjusting to this voicing change, my system is more revealing, more flexible with tube and cable choices, and more musical. Very, very good to me. So much so that I am re-amazed every day.

I got an "open box" (much cheaper and broken in) and Eric Hider is an amazing and very accommodating resource which really helped me get the system optimized.

That said, if there are burned in units around, and your card can take it....why not check out both DACS when you get around to it....and really, I can't say from experience that I know a bunch of DACs...I read a lot before buying, and trusted the perspectives of most of what I read, and then got to know Eric Hider and was fully in agreement with his exploratory process, so I went for it. But this thing is leaps and bounds above my pretty seriously modded Oppo-83 and a Rega Apollo (comparatively they sound distant and like the sound is well made rather than well played!!!!), and all in all, I like the Tranquility notably better than the ZDAC. Also, I have always had a Mini, so can't speak from comparative experience there except that I believed the folks I talked with who had played the computer field, that the Mac Mini is a very musical and reliable server.

Whatever... I love my front end. The final thing is, does it sound real.... and I believe it sounds very real.

If you search this forum for Tranquility, you will find more of my thoughts on the DAC and setup. I might feel the same about many other DACs I suppose, but as I researched what is now an earlier version than mine (mine having an improved output stage from the original that improved an already great sound) the comparisons to the popular DACs of that time....made the Tranquility the one to check out for me. And thank goodness for trial periods with these innovative small companies.
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« Last Edit: 11/01/12 at 19:39:18 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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Lon
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"Love without
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Re: Herbie's Audio Lab products discussion
Reply #39 - 11/04/12 at 15:01:00
 
Got in the mail yesterday Halo tube dampers for my ZP3. Come on down ZP3! I'm hoping my ZP3 hits the bench very soon.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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orangecrush
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Re: Herbie's Audio Lab products discussion
Reply #40 - 11/05/12 at 01:29:39
 
I just ordered the RollerBlock Isolation components for my Dac and also two sets of four, for my speakers. Mike is going to machine them with a 1/4-20 threaded hole dead centre on the back of the upper cup. That why I can mount the upper cup to the speaker for more stability. I will report back on how they work. His custom racks look really nice too.


http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649025815-rollerblock_component_isolation...
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« Last Edit: 11/05/12 at 01:30:56 by orangecrush »  
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Lon
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Re: Herbie's Audio Lab products discussion
Reply #41 - 11/05/12 at 01:33:56
 
Interesting. Hope you don't have to wait long!
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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tgarden
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Re: Herbie's Audio Lab products discussion
Reply #42 - 11/05/12 at 16:17:17
 
Hi Lon,

Did you buy the titanium Halo III's for your ZP3?  I bought a pair of these for these for the 5U4's on my Torii III, and have no complaints
other than what they cost.  

Although in reference to the price, Steve H. the owner/designer of  Herbie's, told me he makes little money on these compared to his other models of tube dampers.

Considering getting a few for my ZP3, also.

Mike
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Lon
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Re: Herbie's Audio Lab products discussion
Reply #43 - 11/05/12 at 16:40:19
 
No Mike, I haven't tried those out yet. Maybe when I'm more flush. I went with the UltraSonic RX. Used those on all my input tubes before.
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« Last Edit: 11/05/12 at 16:48:25 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Lon
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"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7393
Re: Herbie's Audio Lab products discussion
Reply #44 - 11/05/12 at 21:38:57
 
And, just got notice that my ZP3 has gone into "Parts Pulled" status! Cheesy
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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