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Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis? (Read 13525 times)
Gopher
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Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
09/27/12 at 05:23:40
 
My Torii is sold and long gone, but I recently discovered the cheap Shuguang rectifier, which is a Western Electric 274B clone, in my new amp (Melody AN211) and I'm very impressed with it.  It piqued my curiosity as to what it could have done for my Torii...   I bet things could be been voiced really nicely with them in play.

Are you guys using 'em?
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Lon
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #1 - 09/27/12 at 12:31:58
 
Steve sent me one of the Valve Art 274Bs (probably Shuagang sourced) with my CSP2+. I didn't put a lot of hours on it but I wasn't really happy with the sound in the preamp, too big and bold, didn't seem realistic to me with my reference recordings (recordings of bands I played in and recorded in my then garage apartment; well-recorded selections of acoustic instruments) and I went back to the 5Y3GT type for that preamp. I didn't have two, and haven't tried them in the Toriis.
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« Last Edit: 09/27/12 at 14:05:06 by Lon »  

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sberger
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #2 - 09/27/12 at 14:25:59
 
Not sure the 274B is acceptable in the Torii. No mention in the manual as there is for the CSP2. Maybe Steve can comment. I liked it a lot in the CSP2 but ultimately a 5Y3GT sounds better.
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will
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #3 - 09/27/12 at 15:21:19
 
Gopher,

I tried Valve Art 274Bs in my SE34I.2, and ended up with NOS 50's RCA...can't remember what it was about the 274B that I did not like as well. Like Lon, I think we are talking about the same tube? The Valve Art looks just like the Shuguang and is cheap. I have not tried them in the Torii. Listening with them now to Shakuhachi flute and they sound open, rich, and atmospheric, but this record has a hard time sounding bad.

I will check it out more and get back.

Thanks for your idea.
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will
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #4 - 09/27/12 at 16:51:48
 
So what do you say Mr. Steve Deckert??? Any issues with the Shuguang/Valve Art 274B in the Torii MkIII?
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sberger
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #5 - 09/27/12 at 16:58:23
 
Found Steve's thoughts on the 274B and his amps from July. Doesn't mention the Torii specifically but it would seem to apply. For what it's worth decided to drop my 2 Valve Art 274B's in the Torii this morning after this thread started and so far am really liking the sound. Big, full, and yes lush:

Decware amps typically use between 33 ~ 47uf caps as the first section of the power supply filter after the rectifier tube.

In the case of the SE34I.3 the value is 47uf.

So far all the 274B's I've looked at ( and I haven't looked at all of them ) would like to see less than 10uf as the first section of the power supply filter.  Going beyond the value could cause flashing upon startup.  That said, many people ignore the warning and use it anyway, claiming the sound is worth the potentially short-lived tube.

Steve
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Gopher
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #6 - 09/27/12 at 17:03:57
 
Awesome to hear, Steve!  It is cool to see you're having good results with my suspicion...  Kinda makes me want to buy an inexpensive Decware amp to revisit with that rectifier.

In my Melody AN211 the improvements I noted were in terms of tonal beauty, depth, dimensionality, microdetail and microdynamic shading--it just got luster, more beautiful and more emotional for me.  Bass impact could have taken a step back, but it is already great with my Zu Definition speakers.

I was thinking if those attributes could have been matted to the Torii I used to have, that would have made things really special.  It wasn't a subtle difference to me.

Here's a link I just googled: http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/?p=2642  

Seems Jeff Day was really enjoying these things till he was cautioned against them.
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« Last Edit: 09/27/12 at 17:07:10 by Gopher »  
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sberger
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #7 - 09/27/12 at 17:19:54
 
Sounds like Steve is actually warning against 274B's in his amps(although not the pre's if he's shipping them with the CSP2+). While they do sound good in my Torii this morning I really don't want to risk them failing and taking the power supply with them. Been there done that. So unless I head definitively from Steve that using them in the Torii is ok I'm going to stick with my Tung Sol and RCA 5U4's.
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Gopher
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #8 - 09/27/12 at 17:37:49
 
Were you having flashing on start up that is causing you concern?  Just being careful?  Hmm...   I'll be interested in what Deckert chimes in.
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sberger
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #9 - 09/27/12 at 17:59:58
 
No flashing, but as it's been said, they can work for awhile and then potential disaster depending on what kind of caps are being used. I liked the smoking analogy in the thread that you provided the link for. So unless Steve says there is no problem with using them I'm not going to risk it. You would think that if he didn't specify in the manual that you could use them that alone kinda tells it like it is. But we'll see.
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will
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #10 - 09/27/12 at 18:43:10
 
I am trying them now and liking them also. With the tube set I have in, first impressions are good though not earth shaking. They seem big but open...classic sounding in their "tubey" presentation...liquid and smooth, with clarity, but also nice body across the spectrum.

It has been a long time, so I can't say for sure why I got them for the SE34I.2, but it seems I would have been chicken to try them without knowing they would not hurt the amp.

Steve's description for the SE34I.3 indicated to me not that they might blow the power supply section, but that the tubes might ware out fast.

Maybe the Decware penchant for seriously overbuilt power supply components will allow this tube as part of our tube play.

Hopefully Steve will notice this thread and let us know.

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sberger
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #11 - 09/27/12 at 19:39:51
 
Hope you're right Will and I don't care about blowing a few of the 274(mine are Valve Art, not Shuguang...different?) because at $15 per I really don't expect much but just don't want risk anything else being affected so until I hear from Steve gonna stick with the Tung Sol 54UG's I have lying around here and be more than satisfied.
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will
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #12 - 09/27/12 at 20:16:37
 
Good idea. Take the cautious approach.
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sberger
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #13 - 09/27/12 at 21:20:12
 
FWIW I haven't completely gone the conservative route. Just got in a shipment of Russian 1957 5c3s, another 5U4 sub and stuck those in. Lovely. Also big and bold. They came in with a pair of 1961 6n1p-v's that I picked up at the same time because of Lon's endorsement of that variety. Everything sounds great but needless to say hard to get the Torii to sound anything but these days.
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #14 - 09/27/12 at 23:26:48
 
The danger with any rectifier tube is most present during startup when the power switch is first turned on as evident by arcing inside the tube that you can clearly see.  Often an arc inside the tube will blow the fuse.

The expensive 274B's out there do not recommend us in amplifiers with more than 8 uf caps so that is why I have never been able to recommend them even though many customers use them anyway.

These ValveArt tubes do not exhibit the problem and my theory is that they are really just the same 5U4's that we've always used from Sugang, but just in a fatter bottle...  I can tell no difference other than the additional getter at the base.  

I am shipping the tubes with our new SuperZen's so if there is a problem I'll find out within 90 days.

Steve
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sberger
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #15 - 09/27/12 at 23:44:26
 
Steve thanks. Great information.
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Lon
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #16 - 09/28/12 at 00:10:04
 
Yes, thanks. Interesting that you think they are basically the same as the 5U4G tubes. I am not very fond of those either.:)
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sberger
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #17 - 09/28/12 at 00:20:26
 
Lon what rectifier are you using these days?
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Lon
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #18 - 09/28/12 at 00:34:49
 
A pair of rectifiers I bought from Mike months ago, RCA 5U4G (bottle type, the first pair of this type I've liked) from the 'fifties.
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sberger
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #19 - 09/28/12 at 01:05:25
 
Ah ok. Thought you were using 5U4G's but then after your comment wasn't so sure.  Glad you found a variety that's working out for you.
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Lon
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #20 - 09/28/12 at 03:47:14
 
I just meant the 5U4Gs that Steve was referencing that he had been sending with the amps that he felt were similar to the Valve Art 274B, the latter being he surmised the same works in a bigger bottle. I never liked the rectifiers shipped with the amps, I always replace them, usually with RCA 5U4Gs. I generally prefer straight shoulder ones, but these from tgarden are different, work very well with the JJ 6CA7s.
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tgarden
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #21 - 09/28/12 at 17:05:20
 
Hi Lon,  

I'm glad you like the RCA 5U4G's you bought from me some months ago.

Were those top getters or the older style bottom getters?  

Mike in Seattle area
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Lon
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #22 - 09/28/12 at 17:59:39
 
Mike, bottom getter. Very nice tubes, I like what they contribute.
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #23 - 09/28/12 at 22:22:26
 
Thanks for letting me know.  The bottom getter RCA's preceded the top getters (I think the change happened around '49-50) and are tough to find.)

I have not tried the couple pairs I kept for myself, but after hearing your comments, I'm hanging on to mine.

Any idea when your ZP3 will arrive?

Mike
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Lon
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #24 - 09/28/12 at 22:34:53
 
My order was in August 20, so I have time on the clock yet. Though looking at the pending orders, there are less than earlier this year and maybe it will be a bit shorter. . . but my guess is six more weeks or more.

Interested to hear what you think if you try those rectifiers.
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will
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #25 - 09/29/12 at 01:04:44
 
Interested in Steve's comments, I looked carefully at the Valve Art/Shuguang 274Bs I have, and they look a lot like the Shuguang 5U4G to me too. Also, they are not arcing at all after a few days of use. They seem to light up at the same pace and in the same way as the 5U4Gs.

Then I decided to test the sound, especially since I, like Lon, did not particularly like the Ruby/Shuguang 5U4Gs, especially compared to many NOS 5U4GB and STs.

Well with my present Torii MkIII tube set (Raytheon/Westinghouse OB3-ST, Zaerix labelled 7Dj8s that look like Russian 6N23P, but sound like really nice 7DJ8s, Raytheon OC2, cryo'd JJ 6CA7...and with NOS Russian K40Y-9 PIO coupling caps), I heard a distinct family resemblance, but my copies of the 274B are great sounding tubes...open, deep, clarified, dynamic, solid and well organized bass, excellent ambient/spacial information...they are atmospheric and a little lush feeling without detail sacrifice opening the sound stage nicely... spacious and convincing.

Alternately, the 5U4Gs sound like they are trying to do all the same stuff, but can't quite get there... making them sound leaner, edgier, less spacious, less balanced, and subsequently, they are less convincing and restricted/contracted feeling by comparison.

All in all the balance of the 274Bs is very good with this setup and this pair, and I too find them convincing and engaging.

Clearly with the copies I have, if all else is equal between these 5U4G and "274B", the big bottle and the extra getter make an OK tube a really good one.
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will
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #26 - 09/29/12 at 01:16:05
 
Lon,

It does not surprise me that you did not like the 274B in your CSP2+ if you prefer a 5Y3GT. I have some nice 5Y3GTs and they are generally distinctly more low key than a 5U4G in my Torii...They can be rich and sweet, but less push. I used to use them to reduce bass and create a bit more smoothness and spaciousness, but always missed the dynamics and "bite" the 5U4Gs or 5AR4s gave by comparison. So if the CSP2+ is great in your setup with the 5Y3GT you are using, I would think any 5U4 might be a bit big and pushy. I wonder...have you checked that out.
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Gopher
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #27 - 09/29/12 at 02:37:46
 
Great to read, Will.  I'm glad these little cheapies are impressing you.  I'm selling my NOS rectis in favor of this $10 current production over achiever.

Anyone else tune in:  give 'em a try.  My prejudices against chinese tubes would have said 'junk 'em' as well, but they've proven to be excellent.
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will
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #28 - 09/29/12 at 06:45:21
 
Yes, thanks for the tip Gopher. That weird bottle looks cool too!

I have not done testing with different tubes, but with this set, the synergy is really nice. I should see how they hold up with various inputs...one of these days...
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sberger
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #29 - 09/29/12 at 07:46:33
 
Well after reading Steve's comments stuck them back in as we'll. The Russian 5c3S are fantastic but the bottom end is almost too much. The 274B gives me a more natural even tone while not losing any of the grandness of the Russian tube. And yeah they do look swell. Fun times.
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Lon
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #30 - 09/29/12 at 13:46:45
 
will, I've tried about five different 5U4G tubes in my CSP2+ and I just don't feel that the tonality is accurate. Yeah they're punchy but not balanced for my sources and accompanying tubes. Funny, I get plenty of dynamics with the one RCA 5Y3GT that I favor, perhaps that is coming form source components (the Rega is especially dynamic, one reason I spin as much vinyl as digital music discs lately). At least with the signal and driver tubes I have in place, and I'm not inclined to roll those.

I'm happy with my tube sets now, and I'm really loathe to go too far back into tube-rolling, so I'll stick with the rectifiers I now have in my components. May be searching for the right 5Y3GT for my upcoming ZP3 if those on hand don't quite "have it". . . .

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« Last Edit: 09/29/12 at 15:06:53 by Lon »  

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will
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #31 - 09/29/12 at 16:38:18
 
That makes sense Lon. I was thinking that it may not have been the 274B per se, but maybe the 5U4 tube type for your CSP2+ preferences. In my Torii the 5Y3GTs are nice and dynamic feeling, especially in midrange...but they seem "softer" throughout, less drive than 5U4s in general, and balanced more for the midrange and highs than for bass power (at least in my Torii). It sounds to me like it may be a notching back on the power in sort of an equal way across the spectrum creating a bit less bass, less bite, but with a really exciting sense of midrange openness that is cradled in rich and warm edges...spacious, but rich and smooth. I really like them actually, both a 1960 RCA and and early 50s Heinz and Kaufman labeled Bendix 6106/5Y3WGTA (brown base). I probably prefer the latter... richer and more atmospheric. But the RCA is really good too. I can see how they might be really good in a pre.

I don't know, my system is sounding so good lately, rectifier rolling choices removed, I could be really happy with any one of many rectifiers I have...but as is, rectifiers and the power VRs are my most rolled tubes (often together).
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Lon
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #32 - 09/29/12 at 16:43:29
 
Well, I just don't seem to hear the same things with the 274B in the CSP2+ that others seem to. Big and bold, but not at all lush, rather washed out sound with a bit of unnatural soundstaging and imaging. Clean, scrubbed sounding. Just not interesting to me.

I just don't do much tube-rolling, it's very hard to find the right tube set for my purpose of getting as many of my recordings to sound "natural" and real as possible, and I think I'm close enough and I'm just sitting pretty.
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #33 - 09/29/12 at 17:32:43
 
I guess this is what can make a joint listening experience like Decfest a good time. I would love to sit in a room with you guys and roll different tubes and listen to different music and get to hear what preferences people have instead of just reading about it. Because at the end of the day it all comes down to personal preference. I just rolled in a pair of 1952 JAN RCA 5Y3GT's that I picked up a month ago. They were really going to be for rolling in the CSP2 which is now back full time in the system, and for good. The synergy between it and the Torii is just too overpowering to ignore. Anyway, I wanted to play with different 5Y3's in the CSP2 since that's the tube that Steve voiced  it with. Well, ended up liking a Phillips 5R4GY rec that I picked up from Upscale Audio better in it, and after this recent discussion threw the 5Y3's in the Torii.  Like it alot for the same reasons that Will doesn't care for it. Very sweet and great midrange, but yes less bottom than the 5U4's or 274B that I've had in there recently. And you know what? That's better for my system and my ears because frankly the bottom was too big in my room. Even cutting back on the bass on the Torii. So for the moment these NOS 5Y3's seem to be doing the trick FOR ME. I guess the greatest value of these threads is hearing what certain qualities various tubes exhibit in others systems, good or bad, which then helps me determine if it would be at least worth a shot to try them myself.
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #34 - 09/29/12 at 17:51:19
 
Yes it is all synchronicity...room, gear, cables, tubes. With specific taste choices and so many recording qualities to work with, I suspect most of us have a pretty narrow range of acceptability in terms of changes that fit synergy needs, the differences being the subtitles of what we each find to be synergy within our given rooms, gear and and tastes.

Like Lon's preference for 5Y3GT in the CSP2+, I prefer 12AT7s (very specific ones) over 12AU7s in the Zstage, but many prefer the 12UA7. The 12AU7 can sound really good to me in the Zstage, but then I would have to play with the Torii tube set to coax the 12AU7 into working in my personal range of musical excitement. Or, if I make a notable rectifier change in the Torii, like going from a 5U4 I really love, to a 5Y3GT, I would need to mess around with the other tubes to get into my musical excitement range.

BTW sberger, this is why I got 5Y3GTs in the first place, to tame the bass of the Torii in my room and I used them and 5AR4s a lot. But after doing more room treatments, getting a better source, and introducing PureMusic's inline EQ to tune out specific bass issues, the 5U4s seem to have risen back to the top for me for the most part. But I could easily make the 5Y3GT work with a little tube play. They are sweet.

I think in retrospect, my optimized system/room synergy was sort of organically "designed" to include the flexibility of tube set shifts. But my comfort/excitement  range for what creates an engaging and exciting musical experience (while allowing all the stuff I listen to sound good), it too is pretty narrow.

I think all my tube set choices exhibit subtle variations of the same fundamental sound qualities specific to my personal sense of "real." But within that there are endless subtle variations (or not so subtle with "super ears" on) that I find very enjoyable. But then, I am a died in the wool lover of shaking up the musical experience with tube rolling. Makes it new and fresh for me, regularly awakening new excitement.
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #35 - 09/29/12 at 20:05:49
 
Glad to hear that sberger I just ordered the same Phillips from Upscale and will have them in the torii mon afternoon.  Was planning on getting an extra one to tube roll when my csp2+ comes in a month or so.
Put telefunken 7dj8's in the torii on suggestion from Kev at Upscale and haven't looked back.
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #36 - 09/30/12 at 03:08:57
 
I agree with SBerger, those Russian 1957 5c3s are the best rectifiers I have had in the Torii. Everything else I find too sterile. I will have to try the shugang...
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #37 - 09/30/12 at 04:30:52
 
They really are an incredible tube, one that I'm sure I'll be returning to, as I will the 274B. I don't know if I will ever find the "perfect" solution because frankly I don't know if I'm looking for one. Nice to be able to change sound as I feel like it, and within literally seconds. Love that about the Decware stuff.
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #38 - 09/30/12 at 04:41:02
 
Orangecrush,

Can you tell us what "everything else" are....the too sterile rectifiers?
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« Last Edit: 09/30/12 at 04:43:04 by will »  

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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #39 - 09/30/12 at 07:24:04
 
Will, I have no where near your experience with tubes!

But, I knew right away I did not like the Ruby rectifiers that came with the Torii. Dry and brittle. So I found some nice 1950's RCA 5U4G-STs. Much more what I was looking for, but still lacking the texture and depth I knew was missing. I too, was looking for that 'splash of seduction', Gopher was looking for. I tried the Shugang Treasures 6AC7's but that was not the answer. Tried various input tubes, but still not there. However, the humble 61NP-EV's brought me pretty close!

Then I decided to play with more rectifiers. I found some rare RCA made military 5R4GY's (twin bottom getters). Closer yet. Then some Raytheon 5UGB's for fun.

I read an old post on Audiocirce about the 1957 Svetlanas and it seemed to be what I was looking for. My wife and I can still remember vividly the difference. We spent a whole day going back and forth with all the previous tubes and the difference was night and day. Like Fred (Gopher) I am a texture junkie! I want gobs of texture, emotion and musicality except I don't want to sacrifice detail or transparency. I want my cake and eat it too! In fact, I bought the Zu Superfly's on Fred's recommendation to pair with the Torii with the custom 16 ohm taps. I was actually sad to hear him sell the superflys and then the Torii! However, I felt a little of what he was experiencing with both super revealing speakers and amp. The combo can sound a bit sterile. The Zu's are made to match with warmer sounding set amps in mind. The Svetlanas and 61NP-EVs in the Torii with some RCA OA3's and OC2's are a perfect match. Still revealing, but with more layers of texture and emotion. Especially with male vocals.

Keep in mind I also have V-Caps in my Torii and use a very transparent Dac direct with no preamp. My tube tastes generally follow Lon's.

Lately, I have found bliss by improving the front end with adding an Audiophilleo and PurePower battery option to my Anedio D2 dac. The sweet spot is now my entire 3 seater sofa. So organic and holographic. I feel now I am finally feeding the Torri a source it deserves to show its magic. This recent change also opened my eyes to appreciate the organic, effortless flowing beauty of Hi Rez music. I was a doubter, but now am a believer!
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« Last Edit: 09/30/12 at 09:19:07 by orangecrush »  
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #40 - 09/30/12 at 15:25:59
 
Thanks for your excellent coverage of the Rectifiers and system. This makes your previous comment make sense to me. The reason I was wondering though was that the 57 Winged Cs sound good here, but are a little lacking for me, but my HR-Ones (and perhaps room) are probably warmer than your Zus and room. So there lies the question. I always like to compare tubes to tubes rather than expressing just preferences for this reason. Makes the info easier to apply to various rooms and systems.

So is it tube tastes, or is it system/room defining tube tastes, or something in between. Your explanation of what you are after sounds pretty much like I work toward.

The 5Y3GT may be just right with your system. The texture thing is really nice with them here. If you want I can try to compare characteristics of the Shuguang 274B, the 57 Winged C, and the two 5Y3s I have. I am guessing the 274B may not be for you.
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #41 - 09/30/12 at 18:24:44
 
I would really appreciate that Will.

What player are you using on your Mac mini? I think I will eventually migrate that way.
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #42 - 09/30/12 at 18:26:41
 
Gopher, do you like the new nano tech drivers? And have they affected your tube selection?
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #43 - 10/01/12 at 03:09:46
 
orangecrush, I am using a Tranquility DAC with their less expensive USB cable, PI Audio's better power cable, AQVOX USB power supply, and DIY silver ICs from VHAudio's recipe. I love the DACs NOS 44.1 chip. They say it sounds great with hi-rez, but I could not say from experience.

I was just listening with my 55 Winged C Rectifiers...so it may not be accurate compared to your 57s. Sorry I missed it earlier saying I had 57 Winged C Rectifiers. The other tubes are Amperex OA3, Raytheon OC2, Zaerix labelled PCC88 (looks Russian), JJ6CA7.

In my system they are nice and warm but a little restricted (perhaps a little veiled/less spacious) to me...The bass is a bit flabby with these tubes, but sounds pretty real otherwise. They sound good, and I could likely tube roll to get it sounding really good, but with this set, I hear this tube in my system and my objective is not to be able to identify a tube in the sound. If my system/room were more toward the bright, and less bassy, I think I would still find these a little restricted, but that could be just me.

The Heinz Kauffman labelled Bendix 5Y3GT, after the Winged C's, are sort of like opening a window in a too close room. They are near the bottom of this page here:
http://www.nostubestore.com/search/label/5Y3GT%2F5Y3WGTA%2F6106

These are warm in the way I like warmth... no detail loss. The tube plays less bass, but it sounds authentic and good to me...solid, fresh, deep. They have very good balance, sweet midrange without affect...just sounds real... really good textures (harmonics and micro details).

The 60 RCA 5Y3GT, by comparison, still has a very nice midrange with good texture, but is a little less balanced in my system having a sloppier bass, less micro detail, and less high extension. They may be good with your speakers though, the bass and "warmth" different, but more similar to my Winged Cs...could be the Bendix are a little too clean for you....I can't say, but what a well made and even sounding tube, doing all the stuff it does exceptionally.

The Valve Art 274B are well balanced, open, really good texture, big in a very spacious way, and more push than any of the above but without being in your face. The excellent ambient information and spaciousness, with a slight warmth, and great texture, brings pleasantly rich to mind for me. I find them very detailed but not harsh. Compared to my Russian tubes, they may be too bright in your system. They sound great here.

Hope this ramble helps. This is not easy. And remember, my system/room does tend to bass, and though I have tuned it out for the most part, I have kept it close to the edge liking deep but authentic, tightish bass.

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« Last Edit: 10/01/12 at 03:16:45 by will »  

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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #44 - 10/01/12 at 04:32:03
 
Wow, thanks Will. Nice report. I may try both tubes now!

Did you notice a big difference with the Aqvox?

I noticed no difference.
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #45 - 10/01/12 at 05:40:24
 
Yes, so hard to say how the tubes will translate to your system, but hopefully my attempts at comparison tube to tube will give a sense of the differences in them, at least pointing to what you could expect in your system. My speakers/system/room seem relatively tolerant of various tube signatures, especially since I have a nice selection of all the tube types, so synergy can happen pretty easily.

I did notice a difference with the AQVOX, bringing out some space and micro detail from these already excellent qualities in the Tranquility. Perhaps too much on first impressions, but I tuned it in to the system and really like it finally. Being a texture freak too, and loving ambient accuracy close and far, and the associated sense of soundstage density and dispersion that can come from excellent micro detail and ambient information...it can bring such a nice sense of the instrument in this room.

I wonder if your DAC has somehow isolated the USB power internally, or maybe the computer not being in your equation makes a difference. I was surprised at the difference in mine (at least in serious listening mode), especially since the DAC was sooo good at these things to start with. This is part of why the Tranquility is so stripped down and fundamental parts-wise, the makers having ruled out async and upsampling as causing sound issues.
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #46 - 10/05/12 at 14:49:00
 
Hey OC,  how goes it?

Just a point of clarification--I didn't sell the Zu/Torii combination because I felt it to be sterile, I was having major room issues which I couldn't cure at the time.  I came home from work one day to find my wife had re-organized the living room in a more baby-friendly manner and I couldn't get my Superflys to give me their magic in that configuration.  I tried for months and finally a friend helped me re-nail it and I was on cloud 9....

Then we re-arranged the room a bit more as my son got more mobile and I lost it.  Out of frustration I sold the Zu speakers and bought Von Schweikert VR-33s which had an efficiency rating of 90db (so I could keep the Torii) and could be placed against a wall with little thought going into placement...    Despite seeming OK on paper Torii was a miserable match to it and led to me selling it.

One other point--I wasn't a big fan of the Torii by itself.  I think it really shined when I used it as a power amp behind an Audion Premier preamplifier.

---  

As for the nano-tech drivers, they're very impressive.  I've heard them in a Superfly (totally different speaker!) Omen Defs, Def 4s and in my own upgraded Definition 2s and they're just really transparent, nimble, resolved and expressive while maintaining Zu's tone density and meatiness.  

The downside is that they will highlight  fault in your chain.  Having the stock 211 power tubes in my amp for example left my system almost unlistenable--getting it right elevated it to mesmerizing....

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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #47 - 10/06/12 at 01:27:35
 
Thanks Fred, I am excited about the driver upgrade. That's great Zu offers the upgrade at a pretty reasonable cost. Your the first person I have heard mention the difference in sound.
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #48 - 11/09/12 at 06:18:40
 
Received my Shugang 274B Preffered Series today fom TubeStore. Right out of the box I am impressed. I have to agree with Gopher and Will. Also, SBerger is dead on, they have everything I like in the 1950's Russian Svetlanas, but just more. The bass is not less, just more tight, less muddy, with a bit more air and that euphoric quality that is very seductive. Yet, all the detail is still there. Texture which the Russian tubes excel in, is even better. Very nice. How many hours to wait for a more accurate impression?

Btw, I hear no similarality with the stock ruby, which I also do not like.

Edit: My wife and I did some serious listening and comparisons today. The Svetlanas have slightly more attack and impact which we like, but that comes at the expense of midrange vocals. The 274B favor midrange, and a sweet midrange it is. Vocals are more prominent. We like both, but so far the 274B is really attractive.
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« Last Edit: 11/10/12 at 01:07:15 by orangecrush »  
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #49 - 11/16/12 at 01:24:56
 
All the praise you folk are singing about this tube made me order another so that I could try them in the Torii Mk III. Well, I sure don't like one in the CSP2+ but I am enjoying them at the moment in the Torii. I miss a bit of warmth that the RCA 5U4Gs have been giving me, but so far I like them otherwise quite well. Only have a few hours on them.

I may put the RCAs back in tomorrow when the ZP3 arrives just for the "familiarity factor."

EDIT: to add: trying to get used to the bigger image and sound stage, that's my one hurdle with these tubes in the Torii after 12 hours. It could be a bit darker, but it's really the seeming exaggeration of the size of things that is getting to me. We'll see. Impressive tubes for the price.

I changed OC2 tubes to my RCA pair which has helped reign in the somewhat excessive "wetness". . . .
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« Last Edit: 11/16/12 at 12:38:57 by Lon »  

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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #50 - 11/17/12 at 23:22:36
 
Yeah, it is a huge sound stage! For my taste its not exaggerated but more front row. I think it depends where you want to sit. I do agree  some music it can be bit in your face but, I usually just turn down the volume a tad. It seems to be louder. The highs are so extended yet so smooth.
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« Last Edit: 11/18/12 at 06:01:22 by orangecrush »  
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #51 - 11/17/12 at 23:32:30
 
Yes, I like the highs. I'm not as fond of the lower frequencies, wish there was a bit more heft. The soundstage does seem a bit exaggerated to me. Anyway, I'm not a first row fan, so it's taking me some time to get a grip.

I'm getting used to these and like them a lot. Once I get about 150 hours on them or so I'll decide whether they'll be a back up pair or my steady diet. At this point I'd recommend them to any Torii user, they may not end up being a favorite (I miss several pairs of RCA 5U4Gs right now myself, just for that imaging and sound stage "neutrality". but they should be tried out, they're got a lot to offer, and don't seem to be electrically stressed.
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« Last Edit: 11/17/12 at 23:48:18 by Lon »  

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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #52 - 11/18/12 at 06:05:54
 
Sorry along I can't remember anymore, are you using RCA 5U4G coke bottles or the straight shoulder ones?

I found the ST coke bottles to be light in the bass department, but never tried any of the regular straight shoulder types.
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #53 - 11/18/12 at 12:51:59
 
I've actually used both and have had good bass from both types. Had been using some excellent coke bottle types until one won't play in the right channel of my Torii III which has issues with bube contact, and I have two pair of straight shoulders that I like to use in both Toriis. I find these tubes give a touch of lower mid, upper bass warmth that I'm very used to and like very much and the Valve Art don't yet exhibit.

Maybe I'll get over it. Putting the Power Plant Premier into "multi-wave" mode helps a bit. More likely after I hear how these Valve Arts sound after 150 or 200 hours and they aren't significantly changed I'll keep them as a back up pair or use them in the Torii II.
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #54 - 11/19/12 at 19:32:19
 
The Valve Art 274B pair had about 80 hours on them and I decided to put them in backup status for a while. I put the RCA 5U4G rectifiers that I had been using just before and signed a bit of relief. These present just that little bit of warmth that I had been missing the last few days. The output dropped a bit, which surprised me a little. I think the 274B will be in again in time, but right now with the ZP3 being broken in I'm happy and familiar with this sound and have one less thing to critically listen to / for.
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« Last Edit: 11/19/12 at 19:36:48 by Lon »  

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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #55 - 01/18/13 at 20:51:26
 
Anyone enjoying these valves and want to try them cryo'd I pulled Ron Sheldon of cryoset.com's coat tails towards them and he has some cryo'd now.
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #56 - 01/20/13 at 00:42:02
 
Thanks Northery heads up Lon. I will order a set.
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #57 - 01/20/13 at 00:43:04
 
Thanks for the heads up Lon. I will order a set.
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #58 - 01/20/13 at 02:07:55
 
Cool!  The Torii Mk2 that I just acquired came with the Valve Art version of the 274B, sounds good.  Might grab some of these for future use.

- Michael
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« Last Edit: 01/20/13 at 02:08:21 by Italia64 »  
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #59 - 01/20/13 at 05:14:58
 
Thanks also Lon. Ordered some today.
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #60 - 01/20/13 at 19:25:01
 
I have the Valve Art 274Bs that came with my Torii Mk2 (modified to run these).  I was noticing a bit of sibilance, decided to try the NOS RCA 5U4Gs that I have, and the issue disappeared.  They are relatively new, so it could be that they aren't burned in yet, but wondering if anyone has compared the Valve Arts to the Shuguangs?  

- Michael
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« Last Edit: 01/20/13 at 21:16:18 by Italia64 »  
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #61 - 02/24/13 at 21:30:48
 
PaleRider (Greg), did you try the 274B yet?
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #62 - 02/25/13 at 06:12:05
 
Sorry, not yet. I had hoped to do so this weekend, but I just ran out of time.
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #63 - 02/25/13 at 14:04:24
 
Italia64 wrote:
Quote:
I have the Valve Art 274Bs that came with my Torii Mk2 (modified to run these).

Italia64, maybe you have mentioned this elsewhere, but what modifications were made to your Torii for the 274B tubes?
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #64 - 02/25/13 at 14:11:06
 
Yes, I'm running these for the nonce in my Torii Mk II and Mk III (cryo'd in the III) and no modification was necessary. They're more like 5U4G than other 274Bs.
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« Last Edit: 02/25/13 at 14:54:35 by Lon »  

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Philip K. D*ck

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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #65 - 02/28/13 at 14:04:44
 
I'm liking the cryo'd version of this considerably more than the non-cryo'd. There's a mellowness and a richness, a slight darkness as well, which was what I needed from this tube in my system. The soundstage is still more forward than I like. . . but I'm acclimating and the positives are convincing me to leave these in.

I got a pair of matched RCA 5Y3GT however to try, I'm burning them in as part of a complement in my Torii Mk II before putting them in the Mk III. Maybe over the weekend. . . . Preliminary listening there makes me think they'll sound great. It's one tube type I have not yet tried in the Toriis.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Pale Rider
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #66 - 03/04/13 at 20:35:26
 
I finally got a chance to try the Preferred Shuguang 274B that I ordered from The Tube Store, and compare them to the Philips 5R4GYS I obtained from Upscale Audio.

I tried each in my recently returned Ultra, and in my front side Torii. It's a bit of a toss-up in the Ultra, where I perceive the soundstage to be a bit wider, and the background blacker, but in the Torii, the Philips exhibits better and tighter mid-bass and bass control. On double bass, the difference is not subtle. For half the price, though, the Shuguang 274B is a bargain.

I have not yet tried the ValveArt 274B from Cryoset, but I am going to. As I understand it, it is the same maker/make as the Shuguang. Getting it cryo'ed from Cryoset even cheaper is just sweet.
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Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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