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Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis? (Read 13231 times)
Lon
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #30 - 09/29/12 at 13:46:45
 
will, I've tried about five different 5U4G tubes in my CSP2+ and I just don't feel that the tonality is accurate. Yeah they're punchy but not balanced for my sources and accompanying tubes. Funny, I get plenty of dynamics with the one RCA 5Y3GT that I favor, perhaps that is coming form source components (the Rega is especially dynamic, one reason I spin as much vinyl as digital music discs lately). At least with the signal and driver tubes I have in place, and I'm not inclined to roll those.

I'm happy with my tube sets now, and I'm really loathe to go too far back into tube-rolling, so I'll stick with the rectifiers I now have in my components. May be searching for the right 5Y3GT for my upcoming ZP3 if those on hand don't quite "have it". . . .

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« Last Edit: 09/29/12 at 15:06:53 by Lon »  

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will
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #31 - 09/29/12 at 16:38:18
 
That makes sense Lon. I was thinking that it may not have been the 274B per se, but maybe the 5U4 tube type for your CSP2+ preferences. In my Torii the 5Y3GTs are nice and dynamic feeling, especially in midrange...but they seem "softer" throughout, less drive than 5U4s in general, and balanced more for the midrange and highs than for bass power (at least in my Torii). It sounds to me like it may be a notching back on the power in sort of an equal way across the spectrum creating a bit less bass, less bite, but with a really exciting sense of midrange openness that is cradled in rich and warm edges...spacious, but rich and smooth. I really like them actually, both a 1960 RCA and and early 50s Heinz and Kaufman labeled Bendix 6106/5Y3WGTA (brown base). I probably prefer the latter... richer and more atmospheric. But the RCA is really good too. I can see how they might be really good in a pre.

I don't know, my system is sounding so good lately, rectifier rolling choices removed, I could be really happy with any one of many rectifiers I have...but as is, rectifiers and the power VRs are my most rolled tubes (often together).
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Lon
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #32 - 09/29/12 at 16:43:29
 
Well, I just don't seem to hear the same things with the 274B in the CSP2+ that others seem to. Big and bold, but not at all lush, rather washed out sound with a bit of unnatural soundstaging and imaging. Clean, scrubbed sounding. Just not interesting to me.

I just don't do much tube-rolling, it's very hard to find the right tube set for my purpose of getting as many of my recordings to sound "natural" and real as possible, and I think I'm close enough and I'm just sitting pretty.
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sberger
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #33 - 09/29/12 at 17:32:43
 
I guess this is what can make a joint listening experience like Decfest a good time. I would love to sit in a room with you guys and roll different tubes and listen to different music and get to hear what preferences people have instead of just reading about it. Because at the end of the day it all comes down to personal preference. I just rolled in a pair of 1952 JAN RCA 5Y3GT's that I picked up a month ago. They were really going to be for rolling in the CSP2 which is now back full time in the system, and for good. The synergy between it and the Torii is just too overpowering to ignore. Anyway, I wanted to play with different 5Y3's in the CSP2 since that's the tube that Steve voiced  it with. Well, ended up liking a Phillips 5R4GY rec that I picked up from Upscale Audio better in it, and after this recent discussion threw the 5Y3's in the Torii.  Like it alot for the same reasons that Will doesn't care for it. Very sweet and great midrange, but yes less bottom than the 5U4's or 274B that I've had in there recently. And you know what? That's better for my system and my ears because frankly the bottom was too big in my room. Even cutting back on the bass on the Torii. So for the moment these NOS 5Y3's seem to be doing the trick FOR ME. I guess the greatest value of these threads is hearing what certain qualities various tubes exhibit in others systems, good or bad, which then helps me determine if it would be at least worth a shot to try them myself.
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will
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #34 - 09/29/12 at 17:51:19
 
Yes it is all synchronicity...room, gear, cables, tubes. With specific taste choices and so many recording qualities to work with, I suspect most of us have a pretty narrow range of acceptability in terms of changes that fit synergy needs, the differences being the subtitles of what we each find to be synergy within our given rooms, gear and and tastes.

Like Lon's preference for 5Y3GT in the CSP2+, I prefer 12AT7s (very specific ones) over 12AU7s in the Zstage, but many prefer the 12UA7. The 12AU7 can sound really good to me in the Zstage, but then I would have to play with the Torii tube set to coax the 12AU7 into working in my personal range of musical excitement. Or, if I make a notable rectifier change in the Torii, like going from a 5U4 I really love, to a 5Y3GT, I would need to mess around with the other tubes to get into my musical excitement range.

BTW sberger, this is why I got 5Y3GTs in the first place, to tame the bass of the Torii in my room and I used them and 5AR4s a lot. But after doing more room treatments, getting a better source, and introducing PureMusic's inline EQ to tune out specific bass issues, the 5U4s seem to have risen back to the top for me for the most part. But I could easily make the 5Y3GT work with a little tube play. They are sweet.

I think in retrospect, my optimized system/room synergy was sort of organically "designed" to include the flexibility of tube set shifts. But my comfort/excitement  range for what creates an engaging and exciting musical experience (while allowing all the stuff I listen to sound good), it too is pretty narrow.

I think all my tube set choices exhibit subtle variations of the same fundamental sound qualities specific to my personal sense of "real." But within that there are endless subtle variations (or not so subtle with "super ears" on) that I find very enjoyable. But then, I am a died in the wool lover of shaking up the musical experience with tube rolling. Makes it new and fresh for me, regularly awakening new excitement.
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JD
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #35 - 09/29/12 at 20:05:49
 
Glad to hear that sberger I just ordered the same Phillips from Upscale and will have them in the torii mon afternoon.  Was planning on getting an extra one to tube roll when my csp2+ comes in a month or so.
Put telefunken 7dj8's in the torii on suggestion from Kev at Upscale and haven't looked back.
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orangecrush
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #36 - 09/30/12 at 03:08:57
 
I agree with SBerger, those Russian 1957 5c3s are the best rectifiers I have had in the Torii. Everything else I find too sterile. I will have to try the shugang...
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sberger
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #37 - 09/30/12 at 04:30:52
 
They really are an incredible tube, one that I'm sure I'll be returning to, as I will the 274B. I don't know if I will ever find the "perfect" solution because frankly I don't know if I'm looking for one. Nice to be able to change sound as I feel like it, and within literally seconds. Love that about the Decware stuff.
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will
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #38 - 09/30/12 at 04:41:02
 
Orangecrush,

Can you tell us what "everything else" are....the too sterile rectifiers?
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« Last Edit: 09/30/12 at 04:43:04 by will »  

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orangecrush
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #39 - 09/30/12 at 07:24:04
 
Will, I have no where near your experience with tubes!

But, I knew right away I did not like the Ruby rectifiers that came with the Torii. Dry and brittle. So I found some nice 1950's RCA 5U4G-STs. Much more what I was looking for, but still lacking the texture and depth I knew was missing. I too, was looking for that 'splash of seduction', Gopher was looking for. I tried the Shugang Treasures 6AC7's but that was not the answer. Tried various input tubes, but still not there. However, the humble 61NP-EV's brought me pretty close!

Then I decided to play with more rectifiers. I found some rare RCA made military 5R4GY's (twin bottom getters). Closer yet. Then some Raytheon 5UGB's for fun.

I read an old post on Audiocirce about the 1957 Svetlanas and it seemed to be what I was looking for. My wife and I can still remember vividly the difference. We spent a whole day going back and forth with all the previous tubes and the difference was night and day. Like Fred (Gopher) I am a texture junkie! I want gobs of texture, emotion and musicality except I don't want to sacrifice detail or transparency. I want my cake and eat it too! In fact, I bought the Zu Superfly's on Fred's recommendation to pair with the Torii with the custom 16 ohm taps. I was actually sad to hear him sell the superflys and then the Torii! However, I felt a little of what he was experiencing with both super revealing speakers and amp. The combo can sound a bit sterile. The Zu's are made to match with warmer sounding set amps in mind. The Svetlanas and 61NP-EVs in the Torii with some RCA OA3's and OC2's are a perfect match. Still revealing, but with more layers of texture and emotion. Especially with male vocals.

Keep in mind I also have V-Caps in my Torii and use a very transparent Dac direct with no preamp. My tube tastes generally follow Lon's.

Lately, I have found bliss by improving the front end with adding an Audiophilleo and PurePower battery option to my Anedio D2 dac. The sweet spot is now my entire 3 seater sofa. So organic and holographic. I feel now I am finally feeding the Torri a source it deserves to show its magic. This recent change also opened my eyes to appreciate the organic, effortless flowing beauty of Hi Rez music. I was a doubter, but now am a believer!
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« Last Edit: 09/30/12 at 09:19:07 by orangecrush »  
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will
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #40 - 09/30/12 at 15:25:59
 
Thanks for your excellent coverage of the Rectifiers and system. This makes your previous comment make sense to me. The reason I was wondering though was that the 57 Winged Cs sound good here, but are a little lacking for me, but my HR-Ones (and perhaps room) are probably warmer than your Zus and room. So there lies the question. I always like to compare tubes to tubes rather than expressing just preferences for this reason. Makes the info easier to apply to various rooms and systems.

So is it tube tastes, or is it system/room defining tube tastes, or something in between. Your explanation of what you are after sounds pretty much like I work toward.

The 5Y3GT may be just right with your system. The texture thing is really nice with them here. If you want I can try to compare characteristics of the Shuguang 274B, the 57 Winged C, and the two 5Y3s I have. I am guessing the 274B may not be for you.
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orangecrush
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #41 - 09/30/12 at 18:24:44
 
I would really appreciate that Will.

What player are you using on your Mac mini? I think I will eventually migrate that way.
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orangecrush
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #42 - 09/30/12 at 18:26:41
 
Gopher, do you like the new nano tech drivers? And have they affected your tube selection?
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will
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #43 - 10/01/12 at 03:09:46
 
orangecrush, I am using a Tranquility DAC with their less expensive USB cable, PI Audio's better power cable, AQVOX USB power supply, and DIY silver ICs from VHAudio's recipe. I love the DACs NOS 44.1 chip. They say it sounds great with hi-rez, but I could not say from experience.

I was just listening with my 55 Winged C Rectifiers...so it may not be accurate compared to your 57s. Sorry I missed it earlier saying I had 57 Winged C Rectifiers. The other tubes are Amperex OA3, Raytheon OC2, Zaerix labelled PCC88 (looks Russian), JJ6CA7.

In my system they are nice and warm but a little restricted (perhaps a little veiled/less spacious) to me...The bass is a bit flabby with these tubes, but sounds pretty real otherwise. They sound good, and I could likely tube roll to get it sounding really good, but with this set, I hear this tube in my system and my objective is not to be able to identify a tube in the sound. If my system/room were more toward the bright, and less bassy, I think I would still find these a little restricted, but that could be just me.

The Heinz Kauffman labelled Bendix 5Y3GT, after the Winged C's, are sort of like opening a window in a too close room. They are near the bottom of this page here:
http://www.nostubestore.com/search/label/5Y3GT%2F5Y3WGTA%2F6106

These are warm in the way I like warmth... no detail loss. The tube plays less bass, but it sounds authentic and good to me...solid, fresh, deep. They have very good balance, sweet midrange without affect...just sounds real... really good textures (harmonics and micro details).

The 60 RCA 5Y3GT, by comparison, still has a very nice midrange with good texture, but is a little less balanced in my system having a sloppier bass, less micro detail, and less high extension. They may be good with your speakers though, the bass and "warmth" different, but more similar to my Winged Cs...could be the Bendix are a little too clean for you....I can't say, but what a well made and even sounding tube, doing all the stuff it does exceptionally.

The Valve Art 274B are well balanced, open, really good texture, big in a very spacious way, and more push than any of the above but without being in your face. The excellent ambient information and spaciousness, with a slight warmth, and great texture, brings pleasantly rich to mind for me. I find them very detailed but not harsh. Compared to my Russian tubes, they may be too bright in your system. They sound great here.

Hope this ramble helps. This is not easy. And remember, my system/room does tend to bass, and though I have tuned it out for the most part, I have kept it close to the edge liking deep but authentic, tightish bass.

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« Last Edit: 10/01/12 at 03:16:45 by will »  

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orangecrush
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Re: Anyone tried the inexpensive Shuguang 274B rectis?
Reply #44 - 10/01/12 at 04:32:03
 
Wow, thanks Will. Nice report. I may try both tubes now!

Did you notice a big difference with the Aqvox?

I noticed no difference.
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