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Noisy Shugang Treasures (Read 3517 times)
orangecrush
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Noisy Shugang Treasures
09/14/12 at 21:40:01
 
When I received my amp with Shugangs, one went bad within the first couple of weeks. Sent them back and Steve sent me replacements. Now again one pair is really noisy (hiss and static). I replaced them with JJ's and can't believe how much less noise and hiss are coming out of my Zu's. My amp is quiet again! The noise just kind of crept up until I started to hear it from the listening position.

No more overpriced treasures for me! The JJ's sound so much more alive.
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« Last Edit: 09/14/12 at 21:44:11 by orangecrush »  
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Pale Rider
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Re: Noisy Shugang Treasures
Reply #1 - 01/29/13 at 03:36:41
 
OC, have not had that experience with my Treasures. I bought two matched quads from the dealer in Canada [I think], and a third quad from a nominally reputable dealer in HK, and they have performed well for me. I have the JJs as backup, but have not had to use them.
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Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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orangecrush
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Re: Noisy Shugang Treasures
Reply #2 - 01/29/13 at 05:08:26
 
Yeah, its too bad, but after going through two sets, just not worth any more shipping costs to Decware. I bought them as original upgrades.
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« Last Edit: 01/29/13 at 05:09:49 by orangecrush »  
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Pale Rider
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Re: Noisy Shugang Treasures
Reply #3 - 01/29/13 at 14:47:12
 
I hear ya. At some point, the point is to listen to the music, whatever flaws it may have, not to be waiting on, or spending money on, the UPS guy.

I have stock tube backups for every DEC item in the racks, and then some. Glad I do. I was brought down recently, though, by a lack of 250V, 5A, fast-blow, 5x20mm fuses. No more.
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Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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Pale Rider
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Re: Noisy Shugang Treasures
Reply #4 - 02/11/13 at 17:21:03
 
I noticed in the thread on the new Mono user manual, Steve has indicated that he is taking Decware out of the tube upgrade business. I think this makes a lot of sense. All the amps are well-voiced for stock tubes, as your own experience here indicates. While I have been pleased with the Treasures I bought from Grant Fidelity, that's not always going to be the case. And the buyer and the tube maker/supplier probably ought to be resolving any unhappiness.

I just received my new Psvane 6CA7-T II matched quad. Looking forward to seeing how they sound. If they sound half as good as they look..........
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Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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JAG
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Re: Noisy Shugang Treasures
Reply #5 - 02/11/13 at 20:53:11
 
Orangecrush, sorry you had a problem but I'm very glad you let it be known on the Forum.  I, too, ordered the Shuguang Treasures when I ordered my MK III, but when my Torii was ready to ship Steve was out of stock on the Treasures so I started out with the JJ's.  The Treasures arrived several weeks later and I replaced them immediately and they have probably < 100 hours on them.  I'm getting what I'll call "muted static" from my Martin Logan Vantages, but not 100% of the time and it can only be detected during soft passages (I listen primarily to classical).  I was hoping some break-in time would cure the issue, and it might, but I am going to put the JJ's back into the equation and see what happens.
Again, thanks for sharing your experience.
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JD
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Re: Noisy Shugang Treasures
Reply #6 - 02/11/13 at 22:37:19
 
PaleRider,

Curious to hear your interpretations of those they do look great. Currently waiting on the black psvane 6ca7t matched quads to arrive. I enjoy the JJ's but prefer reissued Mullards and am curious to see how the psvane's rate.

JD
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Rivieraranch
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Re: Noisy Shugang Treasures
Reply #7 - 02/11/13 at 23:14:32
 
Good that DECWARE is out of the tube upgrade business. These Shuguangs were hyped up pretty good by the Chinese but in the end they did not deliver.
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DECWARE CSP2+, TABOO MK III; SE84CKC; HR1; TRAPEZIUM DESKTOP SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 turntable; Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CD player; MARANTZ 2226B, 2216B receivers; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
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Pale Rider
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Re: Noisy Shugang Treasures
Reply #8 - 02/12/13 at 00:47:35
 
RR, I agree that Decware should not be in the tube upgrade business. But I don't necessarily share that assessment on the Treasures I bought. My experience may not be typical, but the two matched quads I bought from Grant Fidelity have/had beautiful SQ. Nor were they ever noisy. And I until I broke one a couple of weeks ago, they were performing flawlessly day in and day out. Is it worth the near-$300 differential between them and a matched JJ quad? For most, probably not. For me, the problem is the long-term ROI on a set of tubes that probably need to be replaced every year or so [as Lon pointed out elsewhere], not the actual sound or build quality. If someone has the means, and they were still available, I would encourage them to try the Treasures, or the newer T-II gray bottle successor.
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Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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will
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Re: Noisy Shugang Treasures
Reply #9 - 02/12/13 at 01:17:41
 
PR,

I look forward to your thoughts on the Psvane TII. I have almost gone there but am eager for more input. In the context of your successful Treasures, and JJ backup, unless you ran the JJ 6CA7 for 150 or more hours, I don't think you have really heard them...For me the breakin was sort of rough taking a long time for them to show themselves. Not that they might be better or worse than others, but I don't think they sounded really good for a long time. Interestingly, on reflection, the cryo'd set from Cryoset was I believe notably better in this way....
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Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, modded Oppo 83, TORII MkIV, MorrowAudio SP7 cables, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PI Audio Uberbuss...PI, VHaudio DIY, Neotech DIY, Cryoparts DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab feet and tube dampers
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Pale Rider
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Re: Noisy Shugang Treasures
Reply #10 - 02/12/13 at 02:12:52
 
Will, although I thought the JJs sounded pretty good, I don't for a minute thinbk I gave them proper break-in. And what I do know is that I gave the Treasures all the time in the world. One of the more difficult aspects of tube-rolling is that, even if one breaks tubes in, and then carefully catalogs their Time In Circuit, when you start to swap them back and forth, it is very difficult to keep a relatively even playing field between the tubes one is comparing. Even with two Toriis at my disposal, this is difficult to do, to the point where it starts to feel more like a time sink than a pleasant experiment. I try to keep notes of my listening evaluations, and I refer to those frequently, but eventually, the desire simply to immerse in the music is much more compelling.

That is why the viewpoints and experience of others with similar equipment is so important. And further why in this forum in particular, the Zen voice to which we are all exposed, the full spectrum of gear produced by Decware [not just an amplifier], and the depth of detailed experience shared, provides a rich common environment in which we can meaningfully evaluate each others' input.
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Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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will
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Re: Noisy Shugang Treasures
Reply #11 - 02/12/13 at 06:17:40
 
Greg,

I always go ahead and struggle through the burnin, on power tubes especially, those being more difficult in my book to come out. But then it is out the window...so I only keep up with knowing it is burnt in or not, then it is all sound.....

Yes, thank goodness for the thoughts of other members.

Will
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Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, modded Oppo 83, TORII MkIV, MorrowAudio SP7 cables, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PI Audio Uberbuss...PI, VHaudio DIY, Neotech DIY, Cryoparts DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab feet and tube dampers
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Pale Rider
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Re: Noisy Shugang Treasures
Reply #12 - 02/12/13 at 15:36:37
 
Will, you are a stouter man than I. I would not have the patience to swap in and out all the power/output tubes I have. Makes me wonder if I ought to have a "naked amp board," that I could leave running somewhere for burn-in. I know PG&E would like that.
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Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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will
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Re: Noisy Shugang Treasures
Reply #13 - 02/12/13 at 16:29:52
 
Ouch! That would be painful! I buy them one at a time..... adjust with other tubes for good sound through burnin, sometimes adjusting a bit as they get better, and then they are done and I understand the signature pretty well.
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Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, modded Oppo 83, TORII MkIV, MorrowAudio SP7 cables, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PI Audio Uberbuss...PI, VHaudio DIY, Neotech DIY, Cryoparts DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab feet and tube dampers
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orangecrush
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Re: Noisy Shugang Treasures
Reply #14 - 02/13/13 at 04:20:20
 
At first I thought the Treasures gave me a bit more warmth then the JJ's. Then after one tube started hissing, I sent them back and the JJ's seemed lacking. Later put them in the Tresures again when I received the replacement back from Decware and all was good until one tube started hissing again. This time when I replaced them with the JJ's, it was a revelation. They sounded so good, transparent, revealing and with a nice sparkle that was not there with the treasures. They seemed to give music life. I don't miss the overpriced Treasures one bit. I still have the set of Treasures that I will sell if someone wants them for cheap. They have less then 200 hrs on them.

I think the JJ's needed that extra time to burn in. I just ordered some of the cryo JJ's Lon and Will talk about from cryoset.com.

As for chinese tubes, I absolutely love the Shugang 274B preffered series rectifiers from the Tube Store. But, I did have a noisy one that was ringing. However, they have a 6 month guarantee and I was shipped a replacement right away. They are more and more addictive with each passing month. Really happy.
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