Ok your going to love this one . I have a number of decware amps , a toriimkiii, 2  zen selects a black one and a white one, and a zen se84c+. I have a small room 9x13 . oh and until yesterday a TS mini beast ,(had to find out what OTL was all about). Well I find myself going back to the se84c+ constantly. using the zcd200i exclusively. in the case of the torii, I think its just too big sounding for the room . Im using the most revealing speakers I could build for the buck. common sense  super 8's in 2.8 cabinets . Read though the decware 8's are the way to go. (Will the deware 8's have same bolt holes as common sense super 8's???) Anyway since my se84c+ was in a fire  that destroyed my house almost a year ago, and sounds so great . i think I'll be purchasing another one . Chassis got beat up by the fire....... but not the sound!!!!!!!

Riverranch its an 018sn white select that was at decware for a going over . the zen is , or was brand new 1054sn just months before the fire . is a select that much better than the zen? or supposed to be . I bought the white select used . should not matter,its the newer model . ???????????

I hope to audition a ZEN, a SELECT and the ZEN MONOBLOCKS one day. It is basically the same ZEN circuit, with the SELECT being slightly modified and the MONOBLOCKS representing the end point of the ZEN design, with tube regulation.

riverranch do you use the csp2+ with your taboo,all the time

The TABOO is out of rotation right now. I did use it extensively with the CSP2 preamp.

Riverranch so your telling me the taboo is outdone by the mini torii..... maybe the taboo can be converted to a select , since your not using it. i have my select in the system now and . i may retract my thought on going  back to the regular zen . dont know what Steves thoughts are on this .  I say its  a compromise once again. probably the taboo is just a matter of changing it to triode.  have you heard a zen in your system ?may not have the power you need but man it maybe more magical than anything out there. being 58 years old may be wearing on my ears . but these amps are veeeery special.

I have no reason to convert my TABOO to a ZEN SELECT. I doubt it could be economically done.  More than that, my TABOO has V-caps, which make the unit sound "sweet." It also has a headphone modification with a speaker cutoff switch, which allows it to be used solely as a head amp.

Each amp has a "hook." I think the MINI TORII's hook is the black backgrounds, high gain, extreme tube versatility and treble control. The ZEN SE84C+ has the hook of the insane imaging and holographic presentation. However, there is not as much you can do with it. I would not want to divest of either of these amps.

You can drive a ZEN into distortion and enjoy it; however, the MINI TORII would be too loud before it distorts to ever try that.