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A small horn speaker kit and the Mini Torii (Read 2784 times)
erik2a3
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A small horn speaker kit and the Mini Torii
05/30/12 at 00:08:57
 
Doubtless the Mini Torii is a great match for many of Decware's own speaker designs.  I wanted to mention two others that I have found to be not just good but exceptional.  I had commented on an extremely satisfying combination with the Kipsch Heresy, and, having had just completed another DIY...really partial DIY horn project, wanted to describe it here.  Madisound speaker components, who I have purchased parts from for the past nearly 20 years or so, sells a small horn kit based on a small Fostex full-range driver.  This is like a miniature version of our much bigger Lowther horns, but is a better impedance match for the Mini Torii than the Lowthers.  The Madisound kit is complete with all panels for a stereo pair of speakers pre precision cut, and includes drivers.  For under $400 for the pair and a little work, these are awesome sounding speakers for lower power amplifiers.  Of all the amps I own, the Mini Torii had for me a unique synergy.  

The horn kit comes with polyfil acoustic stuffing for use in the compression chamber right behind the driver, but, for me at least, it's addition really took the life, clarity, and presence out of the spound.  Obviously subjective, but it sounded terrible with the polyfil on the cabinet.  I found the same thing with padding and Deflex I used in our Lowther horns, and prefer nothing in the way of dampening material of any kind.  6F6 outputs in the MT have become a faorite of mine.
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« Last Edit: 05/30/12 at 00:10:06 by erik2a3 »  

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erik
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Fireblade
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Re: A small horn speaker kit and the Mini Torii
Reply #1 - 05/30/12 at 00:57:00
 
Interesting speaker alternative.  Re the 6F6 output tube, it would be good to report the rest of the tube set, to account for possible interactions, especially the driver tube spec you're using.  Thanks!
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erik2a3
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Re: A small horn speaker kit and the Mini Torii
Reply #2 - 05/31/12 at 01:21:22
 
Sure -- 12au7.  I'm in the middle of building three other amps, and finding the mini torri great just as it is.  I've found it's possible to analyze to the point of...well, just kind of too far out there.  Hope you're enjoying your amp!
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Fireblade
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Re: A small horn speaker kit and the Mini Torii
Reply #3 - 05/31/12 at 01:58:08
 
Thanks for the info.  I wonder what essential differences would there be between the 12aU7 and my 6N1P-Ev drivers, when matching them with the 6F6 you appreciate so much.  I guess is just a matter of trying them.  

So far I have the following short list of other M-T owners' well reviewed output tube families that do not require any mods or adaptors to run in the Mini Torii:

- Valve Art 350B
- 6Y6
- 6F6
- 6L6

Of course, all theoretically compatible with the M-T, but with varying current and voltage demands on that circuit (especially, 6L6 and the 350B, naturally).

In my case, I can't just yet start rolling, because I don't know how my amp is going to sound after break-in.  Then I'll ask around for some characteristics that I may find are lacking and correlate that with the most likely tubes to try first.

BTW, theoretically the M-T's topography can be imitated by someone familiar with amp building.  The trick is probably getting those trannies to work exactly as the original ones.  Or not?

Good luck with those other 3 amps  :)

PS:  I'm sure enjoying my gear very much, even more every so often when it surprises me with some tangible new evolution plateau!  
 
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« Last Edit: 05/31/12 at 02:06:05 by Fireblade »  

Laptop-Foobar2K-ASIO Direct//WD 2.0Tb HDD//Audio Gd USB cable//Audio Gd NFB 3 (2014) DAC//Decware Silver Ref IC's//Decware Mini Torii SE//Kimber Kable spkr cbls//Decware DM945's//Velodyne DLS 3500//BJC SUB Cbls//Tripp Lite 500 Isolation Trnsf.//Jellyfish Pwr Cord
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erik2a3
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Re: A small horn speaker kit and the Mini Torii
Reply #4 - 06/02/12 at 00:07:40
 
I used the 6N1p several years ago for a pair of parallel feed output 2a3 amps I designed.  This used an interstage transformer and direct coupling between the driver and output stage.  It's good in this application for its low output impedance, and worked just as as well in a single ended pair of 300B monoblocks I designed.

I'm working on completing a second pair of 300B amplfiers, using two sections of the 6sn7 direct coupled (which always sounds very good to me) and a regulated 5 volt filament supply formthe directly heated cathodes of the 300B.  Being a filamentary triode, AC heating can be a problem, thugh I built a pair using AC filaments three years ago with vanishingly low 60 cycle hum.

The other amp I'm working on is a complete upgrade and renovation of a push-pull 6l6 organ amplifier that uses 12ax7s in the front end.  I did the same thing to another identical organ amp I had last year, and sent it to a very appreciative friend.  So, after years of doing this, I keep saying I'm going to stop, but I tend to have schematics for amplifiers and possible designs drift through my brain at night.  Sweet dreams. Smiley. Have fun with your MT, it's a neat little amp!
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« Last Edit: 06/02/12 at 00:13:22 by erik2a3 »  

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erik2a3
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Re: A small horn speaker kit and the Mini Torii
Reply #5 - 06/02/12 at 00:12:16
 
By the way, the output iron is not such a mystery.  Adhere to a few basic parameters, as well as available chassis space, and quite a bit of experimentation can be done.  The nice thing would be to have options for various secondary impedances.  I have a couple of candidates in mind if I find the need to do that.  It's not a difficult modification to make, but the MT is pretty nice just the way it is.
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Fireblade
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Re: A small horn speaker kit and the Mini Torii
Reply #6 - 06/02/12 at 01:11:53
 
It sure sounds like you're having some fun building amps, good for you.  They say a natural vocation cannot be avoided.  Keep building those amps, as you may surprise us one of these days   Smiley

Regarding specs differences across compatible output tube alternatives, I get the point, thanks.  Take care now ...
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Laptop-Foobar2K-ASIO Direct//WD 2.0Tb HDD//Audio Gd USB cable//Audio Gd NFB 3 (2014) DAC//Decware Silver Ref IC's//Decware Mini Torii SE//Kimber Kable spkr cbls//Decware DM945's//Velodyne DLS 3500//BJC SUB Cbls//Tripp Lite 500 Isolation Trnsf.//Jellyfish Pwr Cord
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erik2a3
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Posts: 95
Re: A small horn speaker kit and the Mini Torii
Reply #7 - 06/02/12 at 23:56:50
 
You take care as well FB, glad my explanation was clear.  Do wear a helmet.  Regards, erik
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hifitubes
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Re: A small horn speaker kit and the Mini Torii
Reply #8 - 06/13/12 at 13:57:17
 
Get some E80CC in the MT; "authorized" by Steve.

Makes a huge difference.
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Fireblade
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A.L.Tennyson

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Re: A small horn speaker kit and the Mini Torii
Reply #9 - 06/14/12 at 01:58:05
 
Hey hifitubes,

Thanks for the tip.  Could you elaborate a little bit on the strengths of these input driver tubes in the M-T?  They are supposed to be double the filament current than the 12aU7.  My amp uses 6N1P-Ev instead of the 12aU7.  Would that make a difference? Thanks again for the insight.
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« Last Edit: 06/14/12 at 12:21:19 by Fireblade »  

Laptop-Foobar2K-ASIO Direct//WD 2.0Tb HDD//Audio Gd USB cable//Audio Gd NFB 3 (2014) DAC//Decware Silver Ref IC's//Decware Mini Torii SE//Kimber Kable spkr cbls//Decware DM945's//Velodyne DLS 3500//BJC SUB Cbls//Tripp Lite 500 Isolation Trnsf.//Jellyfish Pwr Cord
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erik2a3
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Posts: 95
Re: A small horn speaker kit and the Mini Torii
Reply #10 - 06/15/12 at 13:48:37
 
Hifitubes: when you say this tube "makes a huge difference," would you share what you mean by that?  My favorite so far has been the ecc81 in every application (except for headphone use) because of moderately higher gain.  Erik
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Les Lammers
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Re: A small horn speaker kit and the Mini Torii
Reply #11 - 06/15/12 at 14:42:37
 
Erik,

We are on the same page when it come to suggesting/ recommending tubes. There is no 'best'.  ;)

However, I used E80CC's in place of 12AU7's in a Cary SLP90 preamp and they were very good. It was OK'd by Cary. They can be a super 12AU7 in some circuits. YMMV.

I read that the Mini also responds to different voltage regulators. I found
some Visseaux OD3's for a good price and got a pair. I'm a recovering tubaholic.  ;D I recall a post that stated the E80CC and OD3 was a nice combo. The nice thing is that these tubes are  affordable.

http://www.tubezone.net/0D3-OD3-VR150-Visseaux-France-Tube_p_291.html

Appears that Tubezone is run by Ned Carlson from the old Triode Electronics.
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erik2a3
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Re: A small horn speaker kit and the Mini Torii
Reply #12 - 06/16/12 at 14:53:55
 
Hi, Florida Boy: totally relate to rolling of parts, though in my case it was with coupling capacitora, resistor types.....just kind of crazy after awhile...but I am interested in trying the combo mentioned above, and haven't done anything as far as regulators.  This amp is just amazingly good with our Lowther horns, as well as Klipsch Heresies, which to me seemed like an ideal match.  Thanks for the information - have a great weekend!  Erik
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