Fireblade wrote on 06/06/12 at 22:16:36:


Well, yes, I know about the science of cryo'ing metal, but my personal experience is limited to tubes and those two instances of cabling. The interconnects are clearly right for me, not sure if the cryo'ing has any bearing on the results.

By cabling, yes I mean all of the cabling.

Yes, I've had the Decware speaker cables for years now. The damned things took forever to really come into their own (were really bass-shy for months) but when they did they became the best speaker cables I've ever had and I've not been tempted by other cables since. I've practically changed everything else and they have shown me every change and stayed musical and detailed (in the right way, I am NOT a detail freak, but I don't like things hidden either).

If the Decware interconnects are working well with your source right now I wouldn't worry about them til you make other changes and access them again. They served me very well for years, and it really wasn't until I made big changes in power and source that I began to feel I needed different interconnects. They made really good recordings sound fantastic but I couldn't relax into the bulk of the recordings I have the way I wanted to. I'd hang with them right now and maybe you will even longer, they're a great design.

I have no complaints from the IC's, so this confirms one less cable to replace.  I've heard at least another reliable opinion on Decware's speaker cables and that is absolutely positive too, so we'll be saving for those instead.

On the voltage regulation issue, I forgot the Torii also has those, and I see your point.  I just would like for other Torii owners (I think Greg has everything, and this is wonderful, but not representative) to confirm this, that may not share the same atypical house electrical infrastructure that you describe as a possible factor.  

I'll also check on the duet power centers as a more affordable alternative. BTW, I'm sure Steve's recommendations included the isolation transformer and good power cords, underlying the benefits of the amp's voltage regulation stages in cleaning the noises imbedded in the mains.  This may had not taken into account improvements beyond the de-coupling/filtering attributes, that you have found.

Lon, I thank you for giving me a perspective.  I think you're right on the money on cabling and power treatments (aside from the affordable anti-vibration gadgets) as priorities.  I'll leave the power plant for the future and concentrate on those other more basic (and affordable) weak links.

The way my gear is sounding (progressively better with time), I think I will reconsider the ZStage and other components and straighten out the basics discussed, instead.

I'm appreciative of your insights, Lon.  Have a nice evening.

Fireblade. I agree with Lon and Pale Ryder that cables, power cleaning, and vibration isolation are all intelligent steps, each having "significant" positive results once you get into the finer details of the last 5-10 percent. And Pale Ryder makes an excellent point about the actual effects of good power improving every bit of the electronic path.

But relative to the origins of this thread. The Isocups...feet also effect every electronic part of your gear. Every foot I have used has a different sound, and depending on the piece of gear, the differences are greater or less, but always discernible. I played for hours over several days refining the feet, and foot placement even under my Mac Mini. Subtle, but not subtle if you know what I mean. Here I am not talking about 5%, but the difference between very real and very, very real. Definitely worth the effort to optimally isolate the Mini.

HerbiesAudioLab feet are really good, as are his tube dampers, indicating that he is a serious developer with good ears. Though I got tenderfeet for my lighter gear (and like them for my ZDAC and Zstage), I tried them under the Torii, and did not like the sound, or under the Tranquility. Too soft. But they were the soft tenderfeet, and as Lon suggested, the more dense ones might work very well. The isocups on the other hand, once I found the right arrangement and adapted to the way they reduced vibration and effected the sound, I like them a lot under the Torii. Detailed, extended, smooth and neutral.

The Torii is heavier than the MiniTorii, but I suspect you could get similar results as the rest of us with Herbie's highend bases, frosted isocups and lampblack balls under your MT. It seems three would be plenty for it. I could tell the difference between three and four on the Torii, enough to be glad I got the fourth, but three was really good, and  the Torii is heavy.

Since Steve @ Herbie's is the expert, it may be worth an email conversation with him about the sound characteristics of his newer, and slightly less expensive Isocups and Hardballs. Here is a quote from a post of his on AudioCircle " Frosted Clear Iso-Cup has been replaced in our product lineup with a newly-formulated black Iso-Cup and SuperSonic Hardball. The new Iso-Cup achieves a sonic result equal to or better than the Clear Iso-Cup w/Lampblack Ball + Hi-End Base, without needing the Hi-End Base."

Not having tried these, I can't comment, and as we have seen, there is the gear synergy thing, but the ones I have are really good. Isocups under the MT, and some tenderfeet under your DAC might be a really good, cost effective next step.

As to power, I have a Pi Audio UberBuss with a Brickwall in front, with a bunch of Alan Maher boxes spread around, and a couple Kemp boxes. This all came in a long progression. Not having tried the PS stuff, I can't compare, but my sound is off the charts all day, unaffected by power line variations. It actually was quite good before the Uber, but the Uber sealed the deal! Interestingly, the UberBuss rendered the Kemp and Maher electronic RFI/EMI cleaning boxes notably less important, but I kept them in in different, more subtle positions, now around the room, instead of in with the gear.

Pi now makes a little surge suppressor Buss (two years development, an effort to add surge suppression without negative sonic impact..the Uber has no surge suppression) that looks interesting, and is supposed to improve sound some too. In a little search I found the following posts indicating (if the time comes for you) that there may be good ways to go rather than the costly, though effective PS power regenerators.

http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=2124.0
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?raccs&1249671575
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=176

Perhaps some fun territory to explore.

Could any of you using the isocups post a pic I'm having a hard time seeing how these would look under the torii.  I know Herbie's has some great products just not sure I would fing this combo visually appealing.

FWIW I recently found a mint Power Plant Premier for more than 60 % off retail so the deals are out there. My first real attempt at addressing my power issues. Haven't received it yet and have no idea how it will help as I have no idea if my power needs help. But figure it was a good price and it can't hurt.

Thanks Lon. Yes the cables made and continue to make a very nice improvement. I really am looking forward to seeing what the PPP will do in my system but for sure if nothing else it will help with power cord orginization. Again can't be a bad thing.