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3 or 4 Isocups under the Torii? (Read 14736 times)
sberger
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Re: 3 or 4 Isocups under the Torii?
Reply #45 - 06/02/12 at 00:59:09
 
Wow that looks great. Keep us informed as to how the sound develops.

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Fireblade
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Re: 3 or 4 Isocups under the Torii?
Reply #46 - 06/02/12 at 01:40:59
 
That's cool, Lon.  I'm also not interested purely in sound quality, but to enjoy my music, good sound really helps.  So, I agree with your approach.  I just couldn't keep two different platforms concomitantly, it would drive me crazy!

BTW, that preamp sure looks simple and well built. I bet it sounds great.   Wink
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orangecrush
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Re: 3 or 4 Isocups under the Torii?
Reply #47 - 06/06/12 at 01:02:33
 
Lon and Will's posts have inspired me to get closer to the music and have it become part of my life again.
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will
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Re: 3 or 4 Isocups under the Torii?
Reply #48 - 06/06/12 at 02:02:29
 
It IS such a pleasure to have such enthralling music reproduction in the house! And kind of wild how much feet and foot placement can effect it!~
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« Last Edit: 06/06/12 at 02:05:13 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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Lon
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Re: 3 or 4 Isocups under the Torii?
Reply #49 - 06/06/12 at 02:24:21
 
Yes, it's sort of unsettling how "everything matters" when you get to a certain level of fidelity. But when it's right, the benefit is really big for musical enjoyment.

FB, this preamp. . . well it's no CSP2 or CSP2+. . . I miss a certain tonality that those preamps impart, or lack of one. This one has not quite the bass depth that the Decwares do, nor is the treble as refined. Pretty good overall, and it could arguably be still breaking in. And I might be hearing the lack of tube rectification.
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« Last Edit: 06/06/12 at 02:26:48 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Fireblade
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Re: 3 or 4 Isocups under the Torii?
Reply #50 - 06/06/12 at 15:26:06
 
Interesting, seems like you're stuck with Deckware gear, then.  I see you're enjoying your new Rega turn table, congrats, but what is the power unit you mention there for (TT PSU)?  Is that for the phono stage?

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« Last Edit: 06/06/12 at 15:28:12 by Fireblade »  

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Lon
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Re: 3 or 4 Isocups under the Torii?
Reply #51 - 06/06/12 at 15:53:24
 
I just bought this preamp for a "stopgap" use until I repair my CSP2 or receive my CSP2+ . . . when I don't need this I'll put it into the second system where its short-comings won't be so noticeable, or I'll sell it. For less than a third of the cost of the CSP2, it's quite impressive, and it's very nicely made.

The TT PSU power supply is a much larger external power supply/power regenerator for the Rega turntable itself. By all accounts I've found it creates rock steady speed control for the table (it sure has rock steady speed) and also allows switching between 33.333333 and 45 rpm at the press of a button and not a change of belt pulley. Not that I'll be doing much of that. This table came with it for a very little cost increase so I have it. (Saved about 250 bucks as opposed to buying it later). It's purported to improve the tonality as well, but I don't have a "before" to compare it to.

Photos below are internet photos, not photos of my equipment.

Rega TT PSU


Rega RP3 with Elys2 (not mine):



My phono preamp has a huge torroidal transformer within; don't think a power supply upgrade is needed for that.

PS Audio GCPH:




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« Last Edit: 06/06/12 at 16:35:43 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Fireblade
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Re: 3 or 4 Isocups under the Torii?
Reply #52 - 06/06/12 at 21:23:42
 
Right, I'd forgotten about the need to control a steady rpm on that table.  Shame about the temporary preamp's shortcomings, but beating a Deckware equivalent is kind of hard, even at higher price levels.

You know, it is hard to draw a line and say, well, here's where I stop upgrading.  Take my example: New gear, still not broken-in yet and I keep asking myself whether there's something affordable out there to make it better.

Right now, I feel great about the sound I'm getting, though.  It would probably be enough for me as it is ... Who nows?  :)  Ahh but the music!  It's just great to hear stuff I'm familiar with and still get the sensation of a new audition.  Bass lines, details, separation of multiple instruments in ensemble ... its a whole new experience I had forgotten.

The gear keeps opening up, gradually but irreversibly.  I haven't noticed bad or weird moments, only a gradual improvement over time, especially (I think) from the speakers.



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« Last Edit: 06/06/12 at 21:42:38 by Fireblade »  

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Lon
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Re: 3 or 4 Isocups under the Torii?
Reply #53 - 06/06/12 at 21:32:15
 
It's really a great preamp and sounding better today than yesterday. If I hadn't come directly from the Decware the short-comings would have been less noticeable, and I just put a better power cord on it (the cord used cost as much as the preamp) and that has helped. Also by the weekend I'll have a cryoset cable in from cryoset.com to match the others in use with the preamp and that will help. I shouldn't bad mouth this preamp because it really is something. . . and it's no shame to be a bit lacking compared to a Decware preamp.

Can't use the IsoCups under this as it has no bottom cover, and the half inch wooden frame really isn't wide enough. Using Tenderfeet from Herbie's Audio instead.
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« Last Edit: 06/06/12 at 21:39:27 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Fireblade
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Re: 3 or 4 Isocups under the Torii?
Reply #54 - 06/06/12 at 21:49:49
 
You're probably right, as the device has not even broken in yet.  How important would you say in general these vibration damping feet are, anyway?  Also, I had heard about cryo'd tubes, but cables too?

One should be able to get a disc or something, that will let you find out whats your next best bet, sort of weakest link in your chain.  It would be quite an advantage.  I guess experience brings along identifying these things, just by listening to the gear.
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« Last Edit: 06/06/12 at 21:53:18 by Fireblade »  

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Lon
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Re: 3 or 4 Isocups under the Torii?
Reply #55 - 06/06/12 at 21:50:11
 
Fireblade wrote on 06/06/12 at 21:23:42:
You know, it is hard to draw a line and say, well, here's where I stop upgrading.  Take my example: New gear, still not broken-in yet and I I keep asking myself whether there's something affordable out there to make it better.

Right now, I feel great about the sound I'm getting, though.  It would probably be enough for me as it is ... Who nows?  :)  Ahh but the music!  It's just great to hear stuff I'm familiar with and still get the sensation of a new audition.  Bass lines, details, separation of multiple instruments in ensemble ... its a whole new experience I had forgotten.

The gear keeps opening up, gradually but irreversibly.  I haven't noticed bad or weird moments, only a gradual improvement over time, especially (I think) from the speakers.





Realistically, if it's the zone of affordable you want to remain in, probably you're well set, with power regeneration and cabling being the likely next projects. I had to stretch the boundaries of what was "affordable" for me after this point as I needed a better source to achieve my goals of homogenous great sound.  I bit the bullet and spent money, big money, and got taken to a level I didn't really know could exist in my home. I enjoyed the level before, and the level before that, because I love music, it's a necessary part of my life. I think merging my audio and visual system was also a reason I went for another level. I found that changes in power and cabling were quite visible, and the visible changes led me to explore auditory ones, and also meant that the price range went up. But the pain of the spending is done, and I'm enjoying the fruits and still coping, and now this new vinyl listening component is another exciting realm of discovery, with the nostalgic boost added from revisiting the lps of my earlier life. I've got high quality digital to listen to (and watch) and high quality vinyl. I truly appreciate the situation.
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« Last Edit: 06/06/12 at 21:53:49 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Fireblade
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Re: 3 or 4 Isocups under the Torii?
Reply #56 - 06/06/12 at 22:00:46
 
Power regeneration sounds great but is too expensive (well done, that is).  Cabling is more affordable, if constrained to reasonable prices.  What about a ZStage or a Preamp, those sorts of things?  I read somewhere (may not be true) that in improving your gear the last thing you want to change is your (decent) DAC (as it brings out only subtle changes compared with other things).

Should I assume that in my chain the amp is the strongest link?  If so, what about Caps replacements for it?  Also, are there tube combinations that improve the sound (probably not, just the timbre or signature I suppose)?

Sorry for all these questions, but as you have become a sort of sound consultant, I'm trying to get advantage ...  ;)  I would like to get a recipe for my 'best bang for the buck' in my gear chain, that's all, and I'm not in a hurry as I'm enjoying this state very much.
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« Last Edit: 06/06/12 at 22:08:25 by Fireblade »  

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Lon
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Re: 3 or 4 Isocups under the Torii?
Reply #57 - 06/06/12 at 22:08:01
 
The feet can make a slight to a significant difference. It's rather situational. It's odd, if you have a great stereo rack, which takes care of a lot of your isolation from vibration needs, the feet still make a difference. I theorize that they make a significant difference for me as well because my house is 80 years old (as old as my parents!) and a pier and beam house, pretty rickety compared to a newer concrete foundation house. Just a theory. I hear less impact using the same feet at a friend's new house, but his system doesn't have the resolution mine does either.

And I don't really know much about the cryo aspect of metal cabling besides my own experience earlier with cryo'd speaker cabling--several of us years ago on the board had some wire cryo'd in a group project and compared to uncryo'd version there was a difference, a positive one. I decided to try to the cryoset cables as when I got my PS Audio transport and DAC I was able to hear the difference in cabling as I never had before, and I had many years of successful dealings with Ron Sheldon over at cryoset.com Prior to Ron's cable I had bought a cryo'd cable from Reality Cables which I found intriguingly different from other interconnects I had. Trusting Ron's ears I tried his, and I have to say these cables just have the right tone and dynamics for my system and needs, and the more I add the happier I am overall with the system.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Fireblade
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Re: 3 or 4 Isocups under the Torii?
Reply #58 - 06/06/12 at 22:16:36
 
There may be some merit to the cryo process in metals, as their crystalline structure will tighten together, further than normal and irreversibly, if exposed to very low temperatures, presumably allowing for a more solid, clean sort of 'highway' for electrons to travel through.

When you mention cabling improvements potential, are you referring to power cords, IC's or speaker cables, or all of them?  

Again Lon, thanks for taking the time to answer these nagging questions.
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« Last Edit: 06/06/12 at 22:23:09 by Fireblade »  

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Lon
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Re: 3 or 4 Isocups under the Torii?
Reply #59 - 06/06/12 at 22:21:28
 
Fireblade wrote on 06/06/12 at 22:00:46:
Power regeneration sounds great but is too expensive (well done, that is).  Cabling is more affordable, if constrained to reasonable prices.  What about a ZStage or a Preamp, those sorts of things?  I read somewhere (may not be true) that in improving your gear the last thing you want to change is your (decent) DAC (as it brings out only subtle changes compared with other things).

Should I assume that in my chain the amp is the strongest link?  If so, what about Caps replacements for it?  Also, are there tube combinations that improve the sound (probably not, just the timbre or signature I suppose)?

Sorry for all these questions, but as you have become a sort of sound consultant, I'm trying to get advantage ...  ;)  I would like to get a recipe for my 'best bang for the buck' in my gear chain, that's all, and I'm not in a hurry as I'm enjoying this state very much.  


As I said, I think affordable is a zone you may have to leave in order to make significant bumps in performance. I don't know your amp, and won't comment on it, I have no experience with the MT and it's the one Decware amp I've never been interested in owning. I have not changed any caps in any of my amps, because I just am happy with their influence on the amp's signature and I trust Steve chose them well. Also, I don't want to radically alter the nature of the amp and then reassess cabling and tubes, etc. Tube choices . . . well there's lots of talk on the MT threads about those.

And I don't know how to evaluate your source, DAC, etc. I tried computer audio and didn't like it at all, and beyond taht experience i don't have any. We all also have different tastes in tonal balance and that is a large part of the "right" source. From your descriptions I think your source is probably going to serve you well til you are willing to jump outside the zone of affordable.

I think power regeneration is probably the most significant change you can make outside of a source, and I'd save up for that. In the zone of the affordable, I'd say consider isolation, it will help to maximize what you now have, take an edge off, and will serve current and future components.. . . .Then you can build on that with cabling, power regeneration and beyond as time goes by.
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« Last Edit: 06/06/12 at 22:25:20 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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