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Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomorrow! (Read 7571 times)
ZYGI
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomorrow!
Reply #30 - 05/21/12 at 12:41:03
 
FB,

Glad you're finally getting a handle on things, but you are far far from break-in. To be honest I can't even think about how bad it could get breaking in a complete system, or at the very least, in my opinion, the two main components in a system, amp/speakers, at the same time. I listen to brand new speakers all the time, but always on well seasoned gear.

The tweeter does sound like your trying to force cookie dough out of it for the first 100-200 hours, the Mundorf cap seems real dark for the first 100 or so hours. Right from the get go, and even though the Mundorf's sound a bit dark, I think the realization for me, that there is no glare which seems to make top end to be more prominent and always wanting to attenuate  the tweeter. Some pieces of music that I had previously thought were just poorly recorded, or that the mics had been overloaded during the recording process are as smooth as silk.

Now onto your room....When I built my room, and it was pretty much purpose built for audio, yet at the same time, I've aways had a desk in the right rear corner. At first it was just a typical desk, then transforming into an armoire desk with a flip down writing surface. A few weeks ago the wife and I did some room re-arranging and out went the Armoire, which means my room is totally audio. Back in February, Chris K from the forum had come down for a few days and he thought that my room was one of the best imaging rooms he had ever been in. This weekend, I flip flopped the room and everything from imaging to bass response has gotten so much better, its just like a changed my whole system. The side walls haven't changed, as it has Decware diffusers down both walls. The only thing that has really changed is that the live end of the room (no treatment what so ever)  is now behind the speakers and the rear wall is diffused and bass trapped. Has me wondering why I didn't try this 4-1/2 years ago?

So give the whole system a good chance to break in, then start adding other components until you are in audio bliss!

I wouldn't worry about what other people say is the best way to set up a set of speakers. Like Lon said we all live in different rooms with different gear. What ever you like, is the best way to set up your system, period!!! I sometimes have to laugh at reviews, they show this list of some of the most expensive gear that they used for the review, then show a picture of the set up, which could probably be the worst sounding room in existence, and they are reviewing a piece of audio gear.  Then I read where one speaker manufacturer wont allow anyone to review his speakers, unless they go to his place to review them. He also won't show his speakers at audio fest and the like because he knows how bad some of these rooms can sound. At the same time, he can diss a simular pair of speakers that he heard at one of these fests, without the disclaimer that the room could have had something to do with wat he had heard. Then argue it to the n'th degree.

Well enough ranting from me. Back to getting Steve's  beautiful SE34-I amps bases Wink There is something about the dimensions and the gauges on this amp that are just so right...Hard to explain, its just right!

Zygi
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Les Lammers
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomorrow!
Reply #31 - 05/21/12 at 12:58:54
 
FB,

*I* would not change cables, the DAC etc. until there are plenty of hours on your new components. Resist the urge. Smiley

FB
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomorrow!
Reply #32 - 05/21/12 at 13:52:15
 
Hey Zygi,

Thanks for the inputs.  I can't even imagine how this gear is going to sound after break-in, as right now I'm simply so impressed with it, with only three days using it.  If the result of breaking-in is a tangible improvement over the current state, it is going to be something beyond all my original expectations.

I'm glad you brought out break-in as a definitive variable in the possible issues with my upper registers, although, as I reported, now I feel very comfortable with the overall sound, partly due to initial break-in progress and partly due to the speakers' new placement.

Like I described earlier, I only have one side wall without reflection blockage.  This wall, though, is at double the distance from the speaker than on the other side (which has drapers).  This is probably why I can have the speakers facing straight ahead without apparent audible issues.

Your earlier advice on tilting-up the speakers was also right on the money, as these are resting in Teak ramps taylor made to the same footprint of the speakers and featuring a 1 inch height difference front to back (on an 18" high furniture table).  The direction of the linear sound waves hit my ear level as I seat on the sweetspot.

Let me congratulate you on the finish and esthetics of the speakers also.  These are simply great.  Of course, the Mini-Torii looks so nice  between them, like a jeweled crown.

Voices are coming out very natural and conveying physical presence.  Every tongue movement, whisper, breath passage on the singer (in close mic audiophile recordings) can be heard quite distinctly.  So are the squeaking sounds of fingers rubbing the cords on a guitar.  Just amazing!

I listen to plenty of classical music also, and until now the mix of many instruments at the same time was just typically a mess.  This for me is the most critical task demanded from a speaker-amp system, along with the bass line. Although not perfect yet, the difference in those passages is amazing.  I'm betting a mature break-in process will improve this aspect further.

I'm setting the cross-over on my active sub woofer at about 65 Hz, at relatively moderate volume levels, and the blending of this with the bass from the speakers is flawless.  I suspect the M-T preamp driving that sub-woofer is definitely responsible.  I will eventually test several other cross-over points to check where the best combination lies.  These speakers have plenty of bass, just missing on the very low registers, naturally.

I apologize for the length of this message.  I thank you for your terrific support from the get go.  Keep up the excellent work!
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomorrow!
Reply #33 - 05/21/12 at 13:57:24
 
Hey Florida Boy,

I hear you.  I Agree.  Besides, the wife would probably not buy my 'optimizing the initial investment' arguments anymore   Grin

Seriously, you are going to be a happy camper with this amp.  Whatever the waiting period, is worth it.
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Les Lammers
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomorrow!
Reply #34 - 05/21/12 at 16:34:56
 
FB,

The point is that making 'changes' will be chasing your tail until the new stuff is settled in. *I* just try to not listen critically until then. I doesn't work...but I still try. Wink

I'll just be patient and wait for mine. I am in no hurry and by the time I get it my speakers should be fully burned in. I confess that I have picked up quite a few tubes though and they were not expensive. I do suggest that you get a pair of Mullard or Amperex EZ81's and be happy for a long time. You can find Mullards relabeled RCA on fleabay. They sell for less but are still Mullards.

I can tell you are stoked!

FB
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomorrow!
Reply #35 - 05/21/12 at 19:30:55
 
Interesting tube suggestion.  I thought I would eventually try some output tubes to vary the amp's signature a bit, but had not thought of rolling rectifying tubes.  I keep thinking about the Valvo 350B as an alternative to my 6V6 S's.  Why would you start with the rectifiers?

BTW, the stock tube set on the Mini-Tori includes OA3, OC2, 6N1P-Ev, 'JJ' EZ81 and 'JJ' 6V6 S.  The 6N1P-Ev replacing the original 12aU7 for some reason.  It could well be the gain issue.  I've gone beyond the middle of the volume dial (to a max of around 1:00 o'clock) without any distortion in spite of my 2.25 V DAC output.  So, I suspect the new driver choice may have to do with taming the sensitive gain?

Anyway, like you said, it's too early to think about rolling tubes.  Now I'm more interested in conditioning my listening room somewhat and optimize the speakers' placement.

You're right, I'm having a lot of fun with my new toys Cheesy
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Lon
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomor
Reply #36 - 05/21/12 at 20:21:25
 
The rectifier is the lifeblood of the input stage. Finding the right "symbiotic" relationship between the input tubes and the rectifier tube goes a long way towards getting the entire "picture" right.

I love the 6N1P tube. Over the years I've tried a lot of other tube types in my Decware amps. . . but that one is the one that sticks.
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« Last Edit: 05/21/12 at 20:22:12 by Lon »  

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Doorman
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomorrow!
Reply #37 - 05/21/12 at 21:23:51
 
Yes, the 6N1P is a very fine tube IMHO, well worth a try.
don
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomorrow!
Reply #38 - 05/22/12 at 00:48:40
 
Well, I'm happy I got that one in the stock tube compliment.  But for tube rolling (eventually), wouldn't you say the output tube should be the first to try out?
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Lon
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomor
Reply #39 - 05/22/12 at 04:04:43
 
They're all going to make a difference. I find that for my purposes and with my intention to make the bulk of my collection sound good (rather than make my best recordings sound fantastic) I settle upon an input and rectifier combo, then find the right output tubes, and then experiment with voltage regulation tubes.
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Les Lammers
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomorrow!
Reply #40 - 05/22/12 at 14:46:06
 
Roll the rectifier. The JJ EZ81 is prone to failure. Google Jim McShane..he has fully tested RFT EZ 81's. *I* don't know what works best in the Mini but I have Mullard, Amperex and Tungsram EZ 81's acquired a long time ago.

I did get a pair of Valve Art 350B's about $50 shipped. Kevin prefers the 6BG6 but you need an adapter. Remember, his unit was used and already burned in...See first paragraph...IMHO start there. Smiley
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« Last Edit: 05/22/12 at 14:47:06 by Les Lammers »  
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomorrow!
Reply #41 - 05/22/12 at 20:28:21
 
I see, hmmm ... aside from the fact that JJ's are geting a bad rap (justifiably so), and that it makes sense to have an extra pair of reputable brand rectifiers, I think Steve has chosen this particular tube compliment as a set he finds sounds great.

I definitely cannot go through a trial-and-error frenzy without any tube rolling experience, so I agree on getting those rectifiers pronto, but would hesitate to change input tubes, for example.  I'm assuming changing the rectifier brand will still meet Steve's criteria for the whole set, so I see no point in replacing input tubes together with the rectifiers.

I understand the reasons in your case, Lon.  I just don't have your experience to be aware of what I'm looking for, to start with.  When it comes to output tubes, though, it seems easier.  Having a good compliment set backing those, you are only testing for output tube sound differences.  

Any internet sites of your preference to get those rectifiers and possibly output tubes?  Thanks guys.

P.S.: Tubes sound interactions is something that will take me forever to learn, so I'm sticking with Steve's basic approach (except for the 'JJ' rectifier quality issue) and eventually try some output tube like the V.A. 350B)
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Rivieraranch
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomorrow!
Reply #42 - 05/23/12 at 00:17:06
 
I was unaware that the 6N1P tube is being used in the inputs. When did this happen.
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ZYGI
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomorrow!
Reply #43 - 05/23/12 at 00:49:55
 
I don't know when it changed, as I was wondering why they were using the EZ81 rectifier tube where my amp uses the 6X4 or EZ90 rectifier, then I see they are rolling 6 volt tubes, where my amp uses the 12 volt tubes.

RR did you ever try the 12AV7 tubes in your Mini-T, they are a little to much for mine, which is a shame, they sound so good everywhere I can use them!!!

Zygi
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Rivieraranch
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomorrow!
Reply #44 - 05/23/12 at 02:55:04
 
The 12AV7 tubes were too bright in my TABOO, so I did not try them in the MINI.

The MINI product page does not reflect the changes to the 6N1P and EZ81.
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