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10/25/14 at 10:46:26


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Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomorrow! (Read 9352 times)
Lon
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomor
Reply #15 - 05/19/12 at 22:03:17
 
Oh yes, I use the treble cut circuit. Helps with room interaction as well as electronic signal and recording differences. I do a bit of adjusting often. Steve's design is excellent, the control is not in the signal path, it just shunts the high frequency to ground bit by bit. I use them in both of my Toriis.

I'm very sensitive to high frequency energy, and a lot of my digital recordings are messy. I really should be listening to analog. Smiley This circuit and the flexibility of my ERR tweeters are two reasons I love my Decware components.
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« Last Edit: 05/19/12 at 22:14:17 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomorrow!
Reply #16 - 05/19/12 at 22:14:43
 
Got it.  Well, it may be the case I need to start using it with some of my music.  I just did not want to start curtailing what the system is capable of offering.  Since the issue is not dramatic, I could still endure it during the break-in, even without the treble control, although I will be trying it later on.

Thanks for the tip.
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Laptop-Foobar2K-ASIO Direct//WD 2.0Tb HDD//Audio Gd USB cable//Audio Gd NFB 3 (2014) DAC//Decware Silver Ref IC's//Decware Mini Torii SE//Kimber Kable spkr cbls//Decware DM945's//Velodyne DLS 3500//BJC SUB Cbls//Tripp Lite 500 Isolation Trnsf.//Jellyfish Pwr Cord
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomorrow!
Reply #17 - 05/19/12 at 22:19:02
 
I'm sure my bottleneck, system-wise, is the USB/DAC and probably my speaker cables.  Both are good but not at this level.  Eventually, I'll need an upgrade, indeed. In the meantime, I'll work on the other variables.  The sound of this amp and speakers is still amazing, though.
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Laptop-Foobar2K-ASIO Direct//WD 2.0Tb HDD//Audio Gd USB cable//Audio Gd NFB 3 (2014) DAC//Decware Silver Ref IC's//Decware Mini Torii SE//Kimber Kable spkr cbls//Decware DM945's//Velodyne DLS 3500//BJC SUB Cbls//Tripp Lite 500 Isolation Trnsf.//Jellyfish Pwr Cord
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Lon
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomor
Reply #18 - 05/19/12 at 22:25:07
 
Worth playing with during break in as well. What's the harm in curtailing some frequencies that are too much either due to break in, component quality, or room issues? Get the enjoyment you paid for! Smiley You can always turn the controls off once a day and do a "reality check."
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomorrow!
Reply #19 - 05/19/12 at 22:29:06
 
Absolutely, I meant I did not want to miss (if any) the improvements over time during the break-in, in this area.  But certaily, I'll be using the control now and then.
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Laptop-Foobar2K-ASIO Direct//WD 2.0Tb HDD//Audio Gd USB cable//Audio Gd NFB 3 (2014) DAC//Decware Silver Ref IC's//Decware Mini Torii SE//Kimber Kable spkr cbls//Decware DM945's//Velodyne DLS 3500//BJC SUB Cbls//Tripp Lite 500 Isolation Trnsf.//Jellyfish Pwr Cord
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ski bum
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomorrow!
Reply #20 - 05/19/12 at 22:56:58
 
I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that your DAC or cables are causing the issue just yet.  They may be at fault (I highly doubt it, but maybe).  First address the more fundamental room/speaker part of the equasion before fixing something thay probably doesn't need fixing.  An improved DAC and cables may make a difference, but orienting the speakers and treating the room to address the wide treble pattern the speakers throw will certainly make a difference.  

Read the setup and considerations portions of this review which discuss this in detail:
http://www.stereomojo.com/DECWARE%20DM945%20MINI%20SPEAKER%20REVIEW.htm/DECWARED...

The author reports good results using a cross-fire type orientation.  Perhaps give that a try.

And Lon's right.  Don't hesitate to adjust the treble knob, it won't adversely effect sonics.


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« Last Edit: 05/19/12 at 23:12:16 by ski bum »  
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomorrow!
Reply #21 - 05/19/12 at 23:27:24
 
Like I stated earlier, I don't think those two are the culprits in this case.  I was just stating that these are now my weakest links, relatively speaking, as now both speakers and amp are at the top.  DAC & cables could be improved, but that is not the issue right now.

So, I agree 100% with you.   I'm just a little put off by the fact that the consensus seems to be this is not related to the break-in process.  I'd have sweared that would have been the most likely cause of that incomplete or un-finished (not rolled-off) higher register.  I would call it a little raw, unpolished.

I firmly believe the system is improving gradually already.  Room conditioning is something I need to address, indeed.   I'll take a look at the link.  Thanks, ski.
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Laptop-Foobar2K-ASIO Direct//WD 2.0Tb HDD//Audio Gd USB cable//Audio Gd NFB 3 (2014) DAC//Decware Silver Ref IC's//Decware Mini Torii SE//Kimber Kable spkr cbls//Decware DM945's//Velodyne DLS 3500//BJC SUB Cbls//Tripp Lite 500 Isolation Trnsf.//Jellyfish Pwr Cord
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Lon
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomor
Reply #22 - 05/20/12 at 00:28:28
 
I think this could very well be break in, but also the amp and speakers are giving you so much signal, so much detail, and some of it is less refined right now before tweeter and amp components are fully settled in.

Definitely experiment with speaker placement, and consider room treatment, adjust the treble cut, and also try the system without the isolation transformers. I came to the conclusion that those I had were adding unwanted noise that showed up as a bit of raggidiness.
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« Last Edit: 05/20/12 at 00:31:24 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,
PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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ski bum
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomorrow!
Reply #23 - 05/20/12 at 00:36:20
 
Don't forget that YOU are breaking in during this process, too. Wink

But I think that a little toe-in, a little strategic diffusion/absorption at first reflection points, and a minor tweak of the treble control is just what the doctor ordered for that "raw, unpolished" high end.  You'll hit the sweet spot as you experiment, and soon thereafter you'll forget all about your DAC, and what happened yesterday, and what's supposed to happen tomorrow as the music engages your emotions.  Enjoy the ride!

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Fireblade
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomorrow!
Reply #24 - 05/20/12 at 01:38:25
 
Checked the link.  I had forgotten all about it, as I had read it long time ago.  Their points concerning my issues are consistent with the re-positioning and room conditioning tasks I'm facing.  

Let me clarify that I love these speakers and the only caveat I'm noticing (as described) may well be something minor, the solution of which is probably well within my reach.  

So far, I have stuck with the equilateral triangle concept in my toeing-in approach.  I guess I have all sorts of other angle possibilities open for trial and error, and I will probably find the best in my particular case.  The only real constraint is the distance from the speakers' back wall. This is limited to some 18", albeit at an angle, which may equate to some additional distance.



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Laptop-Foobar2K-ASIO Direct//WD 2.0Tb HDD//Audio Gd USB cable//Audio Gd NFB 3 (2014) DAC//Decware Silver Ref IC's//Decware Mini Torii SE//Kimber Kable spkr cbls//Decware DM945's//Velodyne DLS 3500//BJC SUB Cbls//Tripp Lite 500 Isolation Trnsf.//Jellyfish Pwr Cord
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomorrow!
Reply #25 - 05/20/12 at 01:48:24
 
Thanks, guys.  I agree.  This is so much fun, fine-tunning it will be a breeze.  I already love what I'm hearing.  I'll let you know.  And now off  for some further listening ...  ::)
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Laptop-Foobar2K-ASIO Direct//WD 2.0Tb HDD//Audio Gd USB cable//Audio Gd NFB 3 (2014) DAC//Decware Silver Ref IC's//Decware Mini Torii SE//Kimber Kable spkr cbls//Decware DM945's//Velodyne DLS 3500//BJC SUB Cbls//Tripp Lite 500 Isolation Trnsf.//Jellyfish Pwr Cord
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomorrow!
Reply #26 - 05/20/12 at 21:20:07
 
Problem solved!  Believe it or not, this morning I placed the speakers straightforward facing, no toe-in, and the higher register issue disappeared.  No more congestion, just plain wonderful sounds.  It may have been incidental to the break-in curve stage, but in this position I really love these speakers.

Contrary to what the Stereo Mojo review suggested (which seemed counter-intuitive to me anyway), it seems in my case there was some addition of high frequencies stemming from the toe-in placement.  I guess those waves overlapped or something similar, at those angles.  In any event, the dispersion now apparently has more room to propagate  without any overlapping, and those high frequency notes become pristine when listening to really well recorded material.

I can't explain the reasons, but this morning I listened for about 6 hours in a row with that placement and not once I felt the constipation issue again ... Now it seems as if the system is almost broken-in (which it's not, but to me it sounds delicious already).

The only doubt I have is if I may be missing some sound patterns given the non directionality of the speakers to the sweetspot (as in the equilateral triangle principle), but I would be nick-picking here.  So long as it sounds the way it does now, I'm happy, as I don't seem to be missing any details.

The more I dwelve into audiodome, the more puzzled and surprised I become.  Go figure!

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« Last Edit: 05/20/12 at 21:27:43 by Fireblade »  

Laptop-Foobar2K-ASIO Direct//WD 2.0Tb HDD//Audio Gd USB cable//Audio Gd NFB 3 (2014) DAC//Decware Silver Ref IC's//Decware Mini Torii SE//Kimber Kable spkr cbls//Decware DM945's//Velodyne DLS 3500//BJC SUB Cbls//Tripp Lite 500 Isolation Trnsf.//Jellyfish Pwr Cord
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Lon
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomor
Reply #27 - 05/20/12 at 22:59:29
 
Great news FB. I've used speakers with no toe in for years, and also currently use my ERRs with the toe in extreme, that is the tweeters cross a few feet in front of my ears. There's no one way to do things, because we all live in different rooms with different furnishings, and we all perceive things a bit differently.

Glad you are digging deeply!Worth the wait!
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomorrow!
Reply #28 - 05/21/12 at 00:33:43
 
Worth it indeed.  It's the best audio decision I could've made, thanks to this forum's suggestions and support, and a wise choice from Steve.  I'm enjoying it very much.  It's still too early, but the progress from friday has been amazing.  Now, I think I can finally put my arms around it in terms of my expectations from this gear, as I can hear its potential first hand.

Re the overlapping of higher frequencies from the tweeters, IMHO either they are oriented to cancel each other (i.e., in front of the presumed sweetspot), or they are provided enough space to propagate without too much overlapping (forward facing placement, as in my case).  From these alternatives, if the distance between both speakers is large enough, I would favor the latter.  But, I may be totally wrong, as it could also depend on uneven reflecting surfaces nearby and so on.

The point is, I'm having a ball with it.  Have a nice listening yourself.
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Lon
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"Love without
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Re: Mini-Torii/DM945's to be picked up early tomor
Reply #29 - 05/21/12 at 02:10:03
 
Well and a further variable is that my speakers are very different than yours, though I believe they share the same tweeters.

Glad the system is living up to your expectations.

Really enjoying some SACDs right now. But time to watch two of my favorite television shows: The Killing, and Mad Men. Time to switch the Torii input and switch the DAC to the optical input via remote! Smiley
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« Last Edit: 05/21/12 at 02:12:22 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,
PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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