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SE84C+ missing parts (Read 3307 times)
clowkoy
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SE84C+ missing parts
05/09/12 at 02:32:05
 
I just installed V-caps in my amp. While looking at the circuit inside, I noticed that it's missing the the two 3.3uf Solen poly caps as well as the two 10K resistors in series with the 47K resistors going to the plates. The 47k resistors are just tied together on one end and goes to the + side of the 20uf capacitors. I don't know if Steve is omitting these caps in newer models (mine was made in Feb this year).
I already emailed Steve but he hasn't responded yet.
Thank you.
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clowkoy
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Re: SE84C+ missing parts
Reply #1 - 05/13/12 at 21:02:53
 
Anybody know the purpose of those missing parts?
I sent a second email to Steve but still no reply.
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Lon
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Re: SE84C+ missing parts
Reply #2 - 05/14/12 at 13:53:24
 
As Steve seems to have missed your message I would email sarah@decware.com to ask him for you. . . .
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clowkoy
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Re: SE84C+ missing parts
Reply #3 - 05/14/12 at 23:37:12
 
Thanks Lon. Actually , I forwarded my email to Sarah yesterday.
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MattG
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Re: SE84C+ missing parts
Reply #4 - 06/11/12 at 20:28:56
 
Hi clowkoy, did you get an answer to this??
If so, pls share!  :)
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clowkoy
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Re: SE84C+ missing parts
Reply #5 - 06/16/12 at 05:37:47
 
Steve said that the 2 Solen caps and resistors are not needed in the new Zens. He didn't say why.
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Rivieraranch
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Re: SE84C+ missing parts
Reply #6 - 06/16/12 at 13:21:08
 
Probably to remove excess gizmos from the signal path. The Hazen Modification was a significant improvement in this amp and the others it is used on. No doubt these "missing parts" are an additional change that went along with the mod.
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clowkoy
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Re: SE84C+ missing parts
Reply #7 - 06/19/12 at 02:38:13
 
I think it's more of a cost-cutting measure.
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Steve Deckert
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Re: SE84C+ missing parts
Reply #8 - 06/20/12 at 12:39:01
 
Hi guys,

The change in the SE84C+ had nothing to do with cost cutting.  We don't do that here.  Specifically, it was done because it makes the amp sound better.  By increasing the plate resistor to 56K and eliminating the last section of the power supply filter (10K and 3.3uf 400V Poly caps) there is a noticeable increase in musicality.  The reason for this is speed, a function largely controlled by the power supply.  This mod slows down the front end of the amp slightly compared to how it was.  So why was the Zen designed with the poly caps in the first place?  Because the original Zens, back in the day, were designed around a Hammond Power transformer.  In those amps it was a better sound.  We have since made our own proprietary power transformers here in the USA and they are a superior product compared to the hammond. A few years ago we re-designed the power transformers and gained a far better efficiency as a result of using even higher grade steel.  We made the discovery with the SE84C+ this year by mistake, after all these years of building zens with the upgraded power transformer, we never thought to make such a serious change to it's design.  Just goes to show, you change even the smallest thing, a power transformer with nearly identical specs, and everything must be re-voiced.   In fact I remember this was the reason for the TORII MKIII.  After improving our power transformers for the third and final time I lost the voicing on the TORII MKII and had to completely redesign and re-voice it.  It was impossible to get it to sound the way it was, because it wanted to be something better.

So basically if you have an SE84C+ in the white chassis using our latest power transformer shown below and it was built prior to this Spring, we can modify your amp in the same way.



As you can see, the newest power transformer can be identified by the end bells which now wrap slightly around the sides.  It also has a textured powder coat finish.


Steve

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« Last Edit: 06/20/12 at 12:42:57 by Steve Deckert »  
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Lon
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Re: SE84C+ missing parts
Reply #9 - 06/20/12 at 13:57:27
 
Steve, very ineresting! Thanks for letting us know.
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clowkoy
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Re: SE84C+ missing parts
Reply #10 - 06/22/12 at 01:08:31
 
Steve,
Thank you for taking the time explaining the changes.
I got my unit in January and it still has the 47K plate resistors and the tranformer that doesn't have the curved ends.
Will changing the 47k to 56k plate resistors make a difference?
Second, the 2-20uf series capacitors already make for a slow power supply from which the plate resistors get its tap (although I've changed mine to a single 10uf Solen poly cap).
I've opened up all your products I bought either to change the coupling caps, power supply caps to non-electrolytic or change the potentiometer to Alps.
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MattG
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Re: SE84C+ missing parts
Reply #11 - 06/23/12 at 20:18:32
 
Steve, yes, thanks for the explanation!

I'm about to box up 2 zkit1s as monoblocks - how does the recommended Edcor power transformer stack up with the original Hammond and new design?? Should I remove the 10k resistors and 3.3uF caps, change to 56k plate resistors?

clowkoy, if I understand the sequence of events, you did not A/B this change, you have 47k plate resistors, no 10k/3.3uF, original transformer?

Thanks!
-Matt
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clowkoy
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Re: SE84C+ missing parts
Reply #12 - 06/23/12 at 22:59:40
 
Honestly, I'm confused with Steve's statement. If my unit doesn't have the 10k resistors and solen caps, then why is the plate resistor still the same (47k instead of 56k).
Yes, I didn't do A/B comparison.
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