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New Torii owner - help with tube rolling. (Read 23103 times)
Lon
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Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #45 - 05/18/12 at 14:47:47
 
Yeah, I read all that. I just don't necessarily TRUST any of it. I don't know how to evaluate the sources. There's a lot of misinformation out there about tubes. (I'm especially skeptical of what guitarists say about tubes. I've known a lot of them, played with a lot of them, and many  don't necessarily know anything appropriate about tubes). Note that tubestore doesn't seem to really know what's what with the JJ regarding tetrode or pentode.

It may well be true that JJ is pentode and EH tretrode, and there's enough of a difference in the presentation between the two tubes to suggest that it may be possible that one utilizes the mod and one doesn't. But I'd really only trust what I hear from Steve.
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« Last Edit: 05/18/12 at 15:22:32 by Lon »  

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sberger
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Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #46 - 05/18/12 at 16:07:53
 
Agree on all points.
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Lon
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Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #47 - 05/18/12 at 16:58:02
 
I followed your example, and put the JJs back in for now, and have the EH in my Torii Mk II in my bedroom system. Their slight "sunniness" in comparison to the JJs is always fine there, where due to speaker placement I have more bass than I know what to do with. I'll continue breaking them in there and enjoy the JJs out here for another spell. Have really gotten used to the JJs, really enjoy them.

Ron Sheldon at cryoset told me a few days ago he shipped your cables, so you should have those to enjoy soon! Alright!
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sberger
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Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #48 - 05/18/12 at 17:15:11
 
I got them, put them between my pre abd the Torii and put the Decware cables rhat I had there between my phono pre and pre. Have already experienced a not so subtle improvement after about 15 hours. Good stuff!
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Lon
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Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #49 - 05/18/12 at 17:51:47
 
Good news!
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sberger
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Re: New Torii owner I'll- help with tube rolling.
Reply #50 - 05/18/12 at 19:11:16
 
And now to throw another new flavor into the mix I got my quad of "Mullard" El34's today from Tube Depot and promptly put them in. On first listen a slightly warmer, less forward presentation than either the JJ's or EH's. Not bad at all. As with all of these varieties the price is right so no harm no foul in trying them out and having them around in case of a blow out. Will report back after some mileage is put on them. Have you guys tried the Mullards?
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Lon
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Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #51 - 05/18/12 at 19:30:52
 
I had a pair in my SE34 Monoblocks and my SE34I.2 and enjoyed them. Have not tried a quad yet in the Torii--in the Torii I've used Winged C EL34, Svetlana EL34, Tungsol (reissue) El34, JJ and now EH.
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« Last Edit: 05/18/12 at 19:46:18 by Lon »  

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will
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Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #52 - 05/18/12 at 20:42:28
 
I have not tried the new Mullards. I have NOS RFT labeled Brinmar, Winged C, cryoset Tungsol, cryoset Ruby's (EL34BSTR fat bottle), Groove Tube #7, "raw" JJ 6CA7, and my favorite these days, cryoset JJ 6CA7.

Both JJs sound good, and the differences in my system are not huge, but definitely notable. The cryoset JJs are more refined with more black, smoother, more open, tighter bass, more ambient details, more saturated sound stage. The raw are softer with a more fuzed together sound, a little more edgy, though the edge to me is somewhat tempered by the distortions (???) the cryoset process removes. They seem a little more forgiving and warmer to me, but I think they are just less refined. I like the the raw ones, but personally, I keep wanting the cryos after I stick in the raw ones in.
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« Last Edit: 05/18/12 at 22:20:06 by will »  

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JD
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Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #53 - 05/23/12 at 14:40:33
 
Curious to know how many of you broke the torii in with the shipped tubes versus those who tube rolled immediately after receiving the amp.  I am going to be receiving the amp in the next couple weeks and haven't decided the route to take.  I have some paired amperex bugle boys 6dj8, cryo'd quad set of mullard el34, nos tesla 6922, couple new jj's and a couple random nos rectifier tubes around.  
Patience is not a virtue of mine so would appreciate any and all comments/advice.

thanx
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will
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Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #54 - 05/23/12 at 16:02:55
 
JD,

I changed the rectifiers and input tubes right off, knowing from my previous amp that I liked the 50's RCA 5U4G-ST's over the Rubys, and I can't recall the inputs...maybe bugle boys or cryoset 6N23Ps. This tube preference was corroborated by comparing these tubes in the Torii, but my previous SE34I+ was family sound-wise.

Then since I had bass issues with the Torii's introduction to my system/room, I started playing with OB3 and OC3 Voltage Regulators and some 5AR4/GZ34 pretty fast. More room treatment, speaker adjustments, and very specific EQ in computer were bigger solutions for this, but I am glad I got these other tubes because they helped at the time and also opened a lot of doors for tube exploration and discovery. Finally (with lots of tubes of all types in the cupboard) fine-tuned synergy with various tube combinations is a lot of fun for me.

The JJ 6AC7 in my system/room took a long time to show what they were really about and to me were worth the wait. I prefer cryoset ones, but the "raw" ones sound quite good in my setup too.

Unless you have some system room incompatibility, you will be hearing great sound from the start, but you will also be burning in the amp internals, so it may be that broken in tubes could possibly help you get what you like during the breakin. Easy enough to find out. I always do whatever I can to just love the sound, be it cable or tube rolling, speaker placement, or whatever. It is so easy to roll if you choose to.

Then there are the bass and treble knobs, and the bias and impedance switches. So on the other hand, the amp is voiced well and there may be some merit to burning everything in at once as you get to know the amp.

I don't know what your old amp was, but I think the Torii is so revealing that breakin does not suck, but it is a notable deal in serious listening mode. In my system, everything perceptibly matters, especially after 200-300 hours on the stock amp. So if you do roll, I think it is relevant to consider that the sound you get from the tubes you use will change some after the amp and/or tubes burn in fully, so a subtle like or dislike now may become a different thing in several months. And this becomes even more relevant after finding system/room synergy with cables and gear. At this point, my system synergy is so complete that it will sound great with any decent tube given the right combination.

I just go for the best I can toward my personal tastes and room. But I have been called a tweaker.
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« Last Edit: 05/23/12 at 16:11:53 by will »  

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Lon
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"Love without
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Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7687
Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #55 - 05/23/12 at 16:24:10
 
My experience is very similar to will's and I thank him for his detailed response.

I broke mine in with the stock tubes with the exception of the Ruby rectifiers, I've a long history of disliking those so I put in RCA brand ones that I knew had worked well in my Integrated (like will I owned that amp before a Torii) and my Torii Mk II.

Besides the Rubys I believe that the stock tubes are a good choice and a good way to get a handle on the "basic sound" of the amp. But there's no reason to not start with your own choice of compatible tubes, as long as you keep in mind as will pointed out that there will be a change in sound as the amp and tubes season. I think this amp gets better and better as time goes by, and the owner understands how to tailor it to his own taste and listening material.

You've chosen an excellent amp! An adventure awaits you!
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JD
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Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #56 - 05/23/12 at 16:51:45
 
Thanks guys I am really getting excited/ slightly anxious...I am moving from solid state to tube so all of your advice is really helpful.  I am also going to be breaking in Zen Styx and have ERR's and the CSP2+ preamp on order.  I have been saving up for a while and I want to get full enjoyment along with the full understanding of what and how I am doing it.
Thanks again.
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will
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Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #57 - 05/24/12 at 00:50:55
 
Exciting times coming!
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Hipfan
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Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #58 - 07/23/12 at 16:56:13
 
Looking for comments regarding the RCA 5U4GB rectifiers in the Torii MK3. Also, can anyone identify the vintage, based on the following pic? There are no date codes on the tubes, just a "BN".
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RCA_5U4GB.jpg

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Hipfan
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Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #59 - 07/23/12 at 17:18:04
 
I did some digging an the BN stamp appears to be from May 1967, so I'm not sure how these would compare sonically, to the fifties vintage.
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