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New Torii owner - help with tube rolling. (Read 24950 times)
orangecrush
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Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #15 - 04/28/12 at 23:43:56
 
Your right Will, I have not burned in any of these tubes yet!
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orangecrush
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Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #16 - 05/03/12 at 01:25:43
 
Received a pair of 1957 Svetlana's 5U4G's and right out of the box they took that very slight remaining edge off on some music. (e.g. Bob Dylan's harmonica) They also really tightened up the bass on the Zu Superfly's. The Zu's put out all the bass you could want with the Torii. My Torii has 8 and 16 ohm taps but actually I like the 8 ohms better with the Zu's. More weight and fuller sounding. Vocals have more presence.

Lon, you were right about those ruby's. I think most people who don't want to tube roll could change that one pair and be done with it. Steve's stock shipping tubes are voiced very well. If I did not have the Zu's which are famous for getting 'in you face' at times, I probably would have just rolled with the stock tubes.

Now waiting for the 1950's RCA 5UGB's and the 6N1P's  :)

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« Last Edit: 05/03/12 at 01:26:50 by orangecrush »  
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Lon
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Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #17 - 05/03/12 at 03:08:05
 
Glad you are enjoying the sound that much! The amp will be even better sounding as it seasons.
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will
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Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #18 - 05/03/12 at 03:21:28
 
Great news on the rectifiers. I have found that individual tubes have particular sound attributes in the Torii, but as usual, it is finally synergy. And the magic synergy sometimes arrives in unexpected ways.

I had been running National 7DJ8s with Hytron OC3s, Mullard OC2, 50's RCA 5U4G-ST and cryo'd JJ 6CA7s. Then I got a pair of 60s Philips/Amperex SQ 6922 pulls, and Dylan and trumpets and the like began to hurt a bit on top...too bright. The rest sounded good but a bit warm and dense by comparison to the high mids up.

I started by rolling in some 50's Westinghouse OB3s (same as 50s Tungsol as far as I can tell) for a bit more body and weight, then began wandering through 5U4Gs. First I tried 55 Svetlanas and top was pretty sweet, but a bit bright still, while below, they sounded too thick and thunky. With a few previous tube sets, I found the Svetlanas to bias a bit toward the upper mids up with a slightly less articulate bass compared to my particular 50s RCA 5U4G-STs, but with better balance than with this set.

Then I started trying my favorite 5U4GBs, ones I typically consider extended, balanced and spacious.  After several busts, I arrived at an unexpected pair, some Raytheon 5U4GBs (I think 40's) with flared bases. I thought of these tubes as ones I could use to open the mids to top, but with this combination, the sound is warm, liquid, yet open, with deep articulate bass, and lovely clear but smooth highs. And these tubes cost about 20 bucks delivered from Ebay!

I love this sort of discovery.
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orangecrush
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Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #19 - 05/03/12 at 05:55:38
 
Thanks Will, you are amazing! I am going to look for those Raytheon 5U4GBs.
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will
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Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #20 - 05/03/12 at 19:20:38
 
Hard to say what they might do for your system/room. I like these particular Raytheons in the right setting, but they are typically an occasional use tube for me. In this set, particularly with these warmer inputs, they are awesome. The bases flare out from the bottom, the relatively fat bottle glass set into the wider top part of the base. They have dual top rectangular getters on the sides.

There are other Raytheons (I believe 50s), fat bottle, medium height, standard bottom, dual top rectangular getters, and these tend to sound very slightly less solid, and little warmer in the low mids, with open and fresh upper mids...interesting too. It looks nearly identical to a pair of Tungsol I have. Seems that at least in the 50s, with OB3s and 5U4GBs I have, that Tungsol and Raytheon are the same.

I really like 5U4GBs as a choice, and since they can be had inexpensively, I have a number of pairs. The distinguishing characteristic for me is a sort of hard to explain, spacious and textural midrange.

The Sylvania tall bottles I have are nicely balanced and lively, and a pair of early RCAs with vey long bottles and inner construction like 5U4G-ST, with no bottom mica....these are amazing in their extension, spaciousness, and transparency, but in my system, they can be demanding, needing just the right balance to warm them up a bit.

The thing I found looking around Ebay for these tubes is to look carefully at the pictures to see that they are just the same construction....same bottle size, mica, getters...as well as test scores. Then even they have different labels, you have something useful to play with.

Fun and games! Wink

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« Last Edit: 05/03/12 at 19:29:40 by will »  

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orangecrush
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Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #21 - 05/09/12 at 01:35:59
 
Ok, I have had a chance to play with all the new tubes. The verdict is surprising:

I prefer the 1950's Svetlana's 5U4G's over the 1950's RCA 5U4G's. Both are the coke bottles.

I also prefer the 6N1P-EV's over the National 7DJ8 (upscale).

The reason is the Zu's. They are so dynamic, imediate and transparant that they need taming with the Torii which is just as dynamic, immediate and transparent. This tube combo gives much more rich layers of texture to the music without any loss of detail. Emotionally addictive and seductive without losing speed and dynamics. I have found audio nirvana for my system.

Now I understand why Gopher was looking for input tubes with a touch of seduction as he had the Zu's as well. This tube combo is the answer.

Right now I am using the JJ output tube as I had a defective Treasure tube, so when I put back in the Treasure I will need to evaluate again.

Thanks Lon and Will for your great help in finding a good combo for my room and system.
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« Last Edit: 05/09/12 at 05:50:48 by orangecrush »  
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Lon
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Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #22 - 05/09/12 at 01:45:29
 
Sounds like a great combo! I'm a big fan of the 6N1P in the Torii. I can easily imagine you enjoying your listening immensely!
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will
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Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #23 - 05/09/12 at 04:14:44
 
Quote:
I have found audio nirvana for my system.


Nirvana!  Great news!
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sberger
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Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #24 - 05/10/12 at 21:09:43
 
FWIW just rolled in a quad of EH 6ca7 fat boys from Upscale Audio and they sound incredible. I've read great reviews about them for awhile now but finally got around to getting some. At $22/tube these are really a great value. Best the Torii has sounded yet.
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will
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Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #25 - 05/10/12 at 21:32:45
 
Thanks for the tip sberger. I have been wondering about those tubes too. Would it be possible to give us some context for your likes and dislikes. Maybe describe what it is that you think is better about the EHs compared to other power tubes you have used...  and what you are using for the rest of your tube compliment???

Thanks,

Will
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sberger
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Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #26 - 05/10/12 at 22:04:47
 
Sure. Been using Treasures, and had a bad one so had the JJ's that came with the amp in for awhile. Loved the Treasures but not going to be spending the serious $$'s that they ran again. The JJ's are a really nice tube, good extension and dynamics, although not in the same ball park as the Treasures. But the EH's are imo. Right out of the box clean detailed top with just the perfect amount of slam and body. I work while I'm listening to music. Was listening to some Booker Ervin sides that I am very familiar with. When a particular hot segment came on I had to put down my work and simply gawk at my speakers. Something new and exciting was happening with my Torii. As great as it has been since day 1 these tubes just clicked. They just do everything well. The other tubes are Amperex 6922 PQ's, Raytheon OC2's, the OA3's that came with the amp, and 50's TungSol 5U4G's picked up a while back in the classifieds. Hope that helps.
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Lon
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Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #27 - 05/10/12 at 23:10:43
 
Thanks Sam. Cryoset.com has them in matched quads, so I'm going to give them a try.
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will
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Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #28 - 05/10/12 at 23:16:03
 
Thanks sberger. Sounds like a nice tube in your nice set! Also, cryoset.com has cryo'd at 85 for a quad if anyone is interested. I almost bought some, but got scared by the description saying it was a tetrode design, and since the Torii write up talks about the Pentode design of EL34s, would this particular 6CA7-EH utilize the Hazen grid mod???

And since I know absolutely jack about this, I just didn't go there. Since they work so well for you sberger, Hazen mod, or not, I am re-tempted.

Any thoughts?
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sberger
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Re: New Torii owner - help with tube rolling.
Reply #29 - 05/10/12 at 23:16:15
 
Cool. BTW Lon you raved so much about Cryoset's IC's that I went ahead and bought me some to stick between my pre and the Torii. Should be here next week. Using some Decware IC's now that I'll have to put somewhere else I guess, unless for some reason the Cryoset's don't work out like I anticipate.
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