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Decware Torii Mk III distortion (Read 10229 times)
MichaelHiFi
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Decware Torii Mk III distortion
02/10/12 at 16:24:43
 
I just received a used Torii Mk III. I'm still on the list for a new one with the V-Caps and stepped volume control. But being ampless I was able to procure a Torii from a good guy who had issues with his house electricity and 101db efficient speakers.

Now I have music. Unfortunately along with what appears to be spectacular sound is also a puzzling distortion, especially noted in the lower midband. When I put my ear close to the speaker it sounds as though the sound is being played underwater. It sounds this way on both channels. I rolled various tubes but other than changing the tonality, the distortion remains.

I played the Torii through my Allnic preamp as well. But regardless, pre or no pre the distortion remains. I tried different cables and out of desperation, last night i inserted a pair of Def Techs 8060's, removing the Tyler Decade's out of the picture. The Def Techs were unlistenable.

Torii has no hum, dead silent and is being fed from a dedicated 20amp circuit, Oyaide outlet and carbon fiber cover.

I know there's brilliance behind the Torii, we can hear it. We've spent a few evening enjoying music but would often cringe, usually with male vocals and noted as well that there seems to be a lack of clarity in general. Bass especially is although far fuller and deeper than my Pass X350.5 it's somewhat of a mess.

I'm hopeful to bring the Torii to another home/system but all I'd be eliminating at this point is the house and its associated AC.

Any ideas?
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Tyler Acoustic Decade D1's
Decware Torii Mk III
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Oppo BDP95
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Lon
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #1 - 02/10/12 at 16:35:05
 
Interesting. Could it be that there is energy in a frequency range that is energizing your speakers in a way previous amps haven't? Possibly revealing a speaker defect or distortion? (This happened to me once in the past).

Seems to me that may be unlikely but it might be a possibility? Have you any other speakers to try?

Congratulations on the Torii purchase, and having one on the way (slowly)!
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« Last Edit: 02/10/12 at 17:52:46 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,
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will
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #2 - 02/10/12 at 17:38:46
 
Michael, Have you rolled different tubes types on the inputs and power tubes in particular? What tubes are you using?

I get distortion with 6N1Ps but not with 6DJ8, 6922, 7DJ8s. I have rolled all the tube sets and determining that the 6N1P is the culprit. I can't recall exactly, but I think I must have used the 6N1P when the amp was brand new for a little while with no issues. But now somehow the 6N1P must be overloading the power tubes?
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MichaelHiFi
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #3 - 02/10/12 at 18:53:35
 
Thanks for the responses. I tried my set of Def Tech speakers with same results.

In so far as tube rolling, even though I've been doing performance audio - forever - this is my first tube amp, so I'm a newbie of sorts. I have a generous amount of tubes to try from the previous owner and might have a tube other than the 6N1P to try, but I'm not sure. That's a great starting point though!

These are some of the tubes I have at my disposal.

RCA 5u4g rectifiers
RCA OA3's
RCA OC2's,
Amperex 6922's,
6ca7's
russian el34's

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Tyler Acoustic Decade D1's
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will
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #4 - 02/10/12 at 19:30:53
 
Nice tubes. The RCA Voltage Regs OA3, and OC2 are probably pretty invincible. Likely the same with the RCA 5U4Gs. For starters, how about rolling the 6922s into the inputs, replacing the 6N1P and see what happens. If there is still distortion, maybe leave the 6922s and everything else as is, and try changing out the 6AC7 or EL34s for the other quad.

If the RCAs you listed are extras, and the above does not work, you could continue rolling one tube type at a time, and this would rule in or out tubes as part or all of the issue.

Just in case you have not had a chance to figure all the tubes out yet:

6N1P, 6922, 6DJ8, 7DJ8 all work in the input socket (outside fronts), with different characters by type and also by vintage and make within a type.

The RCA 5U4G can go where the Ruby 5U4Gs are, or if something else is in there, they are the tubes toward the center from the back power tubes. There are several other rectifiers that work here. 5U4GB, 5AR4 (GZ34), 5Y3GT... each type and individual within a type having particular character.
The OA3s are just inside the 5U4Gs and can be subbed with OB3, OC3, OD3, again all different tonal tendencies, and varied also by ST (coke bottle) or Straight bottle.
The OC2s, the tall narrow tubes in the middle front can be subbed with OB2. If stock Raytheon's are in there, you will find the RCA a little different tonally.
JJ or Shuguang 6AC7 and EL 34 are interchangeable.

Good Luck. I hope it is a tube and not the amp!
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« Last Edit: 02/10/12 at 20:16:35 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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MichaelHiFi
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #5 - 02/10/12 at 21:41:16
 
Thanks will. I greatly appreciate your help.

We are so anxious to hear what this amp is capable of. I just want to get on with the sound of music!

I'll roll some of those tubes when I get home.
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Tyler Acoustic Decade D1's
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will
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #6 - 02/10/12 at 21:50:38
 
You're welcome. I hope it solves your problem. To me, after getting my system/room tuned, this amp is so good it is sort of unbelievable.
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Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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Lon
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #7 - 02/10/12 at 22:14:34
 
I agree. This amp will show you everything. . . which is great, and can also be expensive as you'll be tempted to upgrade every aspect of your system. . . Wink
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MichaelHiFi
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #8 - 02/10/12 at 22:20:05
 
I'm assembling a pair of GR-Research Super V's. My current reference are the Tyler Decade D1's which didn't sing well with the Pass. The Super V's are a 97db efficient free air speaker. I'm excited to get these built. The panels are painted with automotive color, at a body shop, and the rest I've dome myself.

I'm hopeful to get the Torii dialed in before inserting the Super V's. Should be a good "sound off".
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Tyler Acoustic Decade D1's
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ski bum
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #9 - 02/11/12 at 02:11:29
 
Michael-

Nice choice with the Super V's.  I'm familiar with those and the Venuette, which I've considered building myself.  Danny has a knack for great sounding passive networks too, although they're power suckers.

Only think I would recommend is to have GR inspect, test, and pair match the P-audio drivers.  P-audio has been known to produce a few lemons.

Did you ever figure out the issue with the used Torii?
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« Last Edit: 02/11/12 at 02:31:18 by ski bum »  
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MichaelHiFi
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #10 - 02/11/12 at 04:11:48
 
Changed a few tubes, the 6N1p's but no help. Don't know where to go from here other than a direct comparison with another Torii owner. Cry
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Tyler Acoustic Decade D1's
Decware Torii Mk III
Allnic L3000 preamp
Oppo BDP95
VPI Scoutmaster
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Lon
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"Love without
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Philip K. D*ck

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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #11 - 02/11/12 at 12:23:55
 
In my opinion, the next logical step would be to call Steve. . . .
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,
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will
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #12 - 02/11/12 at 15:49:55
 
I agree. If all the tube sets have been ruled out, as well as source and connections, then calling Steve will set solutions in motion. If it is the Torii causing the distortion, something is definitely wrong.
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Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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Casey
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #13 - 02/11/12 at 19:28:09
 
Michael

I am having this exact same problem with a used SE84zs (is only about 500 hours used and has vcaps).  No problem for previous owner but in my system I get this low mid / high bass distortion.  Have tried three different speakers, and three different sources but still there.  The new Kate Bush - 50 words for snow - just drove me crazy.  Yet a little Rickie Lee was just pure magic - can really see the potential of this amp.

Have swapped output tubes with no change.  Have tried tube dampers no change.  Have tried a preamp no change. So have ordered a replacement rectifier and input tube.  I also have written to Decware with no reply so they may be scratching their heads as well.  

Will watch for your solution.

David
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Rivieraranch
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #14 - 02/11/12 at 19:51:15
 
Your experiences demonstrate the value of having the seller send the piece back to DECWARE for a look-see and renewal of the factory warranty. It is well worth the small fee involved.
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