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Decware Torii Mk III distortion (Read 9727 times)
DaveH
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #45 - 02/18/13 at 15:56:10
 
Thanks Lon, I'm on board with that.
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Mac mini, linear ps, Audirvana +, Oppo 83 Rick Shultz mod, Prism Orpheus Dac, Synergistic tesla, Torii III stepped, V-caps, Ref 3A GV's.
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #46 - 02/18/13 at 20:25:24
 

Quote:
I have a torii III V-cap, stepped atten, stock tubes. Mac mini, linear PS, Latest Audirvana Plus, Prism Firewire Dac, Torii II, Ref 3A GV's which are 90 db at 1 watt, linear 5 ohm impedence, terrible distortion midrange and  bass. I can't get peaks much over 90 db in my room .  It sounds as if the amp were clipping. Same result when feed the dac with analog from an Oppo, firewire from the mm, or Spdif from an Oppo. The Ref 3 A's do not like feedback but I could sure use some.  Please help, need a place to start. Thank you


Quote:
Hi Lon, Thanks for your interest.  Both channels are affected, 6N1p-EV (not 2P) are in the correct sockets. On the tube it reads 6H17-EB, the box its from reads 6N1p-EV.  



if the tube reads 6h17-eB then it's the wrong tube(s) placed into the right box.


It seems the 6N1P in a Zen TORII MKII or MKIII falls right on the edge of a window of operation where depending on how the tube tests, it could actually fall outside that window causing premature distortion.  The solution is to use 6922's, or at least avoid using 6N1P's in this amp.  In recent testing we saw this in action where a pair of 6N1P's causes the amplifier to put out less than 5 watts.  What actually happens is that the input tube itself is distorting and of course the amplifier just follows along.


USE 6922 input tubes in the Zen TORII amplifiers.

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will
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #47 - 02/18/13 at 23:53:33
 
I can't say if my MkIII has always done this or not because i started with 6DJ8 and 6922s, and Steve and I have talked about it...but 6N1P definitely clip in my Torii...I believe one of that first pile of seven we saw on the website for a while when the new bass knobs were being introduced...... One of my tube sellers graciously sent me a variety of 6N1P to try, cryo'd and not, and none make it into my favored listening window without breaking up. This explains it.
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Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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Rivieraranch
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #48 - 02/19/13 at 00:04:27
 
That's funny because the new ZENSE84CKC is too much for the 6922; DECWARE cautions to use a 6N1P in there.

Now the 6N1P-EV is too much for the mighty TORII MK III to handle.

I suppose I will have to dig into the tube drawer for some 6922's.
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DECWARE CSP2+, TABOO MK III; SE84CKC; HR1; TRAPEZIUM DESKTOP SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 turntable; Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CD player; MARANTZ 2226B, 2216B receivers; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
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C.E.
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #49 - 02/19/13 at 00:19:19
 
I got my hands on a "stash" of 6N1P's a couple of years ago after I decided on that particular tube. 1960's from the original Reflektor factory- I think. Never had a clipping problem....

What's weird is that at first I thought that your clipping was probably related to speaker sensitivity (or lack of)...then the comments about the lack of treble...hmmmmm. My treble is backed off considerably.

I tried the 6922's and they just sounded "thin" to me...but that's what makes this amplifier so wonderful.
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Mac Mini (Amarra)>DIY (TDA 1541A, Ian FIFO) USB Dac (Tube Output)>Torii III(V-Caps, Attenuator)>Zen Styx>C3-L Monitors/Model H Sub (plate amp)
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will
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #50 - 02/19/13 at 00:41:10
 
Now THAT depends entirely on the 6922...I am running some 60s Amperex SQ pulls right now, and they are really sweet. 6922 do tend to be tighter in general though, more neutral, stronger...being the more "accurate" of the 6 types, and tending more toward a solid state sort of "feel"...but there are the very nice sounding ones to be sure. If you want more sense of harmonics and a less tight sound, the 6DJ8 and 7DJ8s will help there, the nicer NOS ones fitting somewhere between the 6922 and 6N1P (actually referred to as 6DJ8 type). The output of all these tubes is notably higher than the 6N1P as well, and it may be you will prefer different Rectifiers or VRs to balance and different treble bass settings (I realize I use these all the time for fine-tuning tube sets and don't know how I did without it!).....but being used to the 6N1P in your Torii, you don't have the issue anyway.

Wink
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Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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C.E.
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #51 - 02/19/13 at 00:48:53
 
OK....let's just say I MAY audition a different tube. What's your choice for the smoothest 6922 NOS that's not going to break the bank?...

Thanks Will.
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Mac Mini (Amarra)>DIY (TDA 1541A, Ian FIFO) USB Dac (Tube Output)>Torii III(V-Caps, Attenuator)>Zen Styx>C3-L Monitors/Model H Sub (plate amp)
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orangecrush
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #52 - 02/19/13 at 01:06:36
 
I would like to hear Will answer that as well, just in case. But, so far my experience is same as you C.E.. No issues with the 61NP in my Torrii but I am using 16 ohm 100 dB speakers with 16 ohm taps on the Torii. My treble is turned  down as well. About 11:00 o'clock.
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« Last Edit: 02/19/13 at 01:15:12 by orangecrush »  
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C.E.
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #53 - 02/19/13 at 01:08:50
 
I think my amp has 4 and 8 ohm taps.
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Mac Mini (Amarra)>DIY (TDA 1541A, Ian FIFO) USB Dac (Tube Output)>Torii III(V-Caps, Attenuator)>Zen Styx>C3-L Monitors/Model H Sub (plate amp)
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Lon
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #54 - 02/19/13 at 03:00:57
 
Interesting. I have never liked 6922 tubes in the Torii; I've been using 6N1P since I have had the amp and have had no issues of distortion. I may be lucky. The supercryo'd from cryoset.com certainly work well.
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« Last Edit: 02/19/13 at 03:03:19 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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DaveH
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #55 - 02/21/13 at 14:18:28
 
Wow, glad I opened a can of worms, I was ready to sell my amp.  The input tubes that I received appear to read(tuff, not clear) either 6H17 or 6H11 EB. However, the dates read 11-81, and 07-84, also "OTK1" on the tubes. Steve mentioned the 6299's that would be sent as replacement for 6N1p's are either Solvteks or EH's. Is it possible the quality of the input tube has little effect on the the sound? Maybe not as much as a tube "type" issue.  Seems unlikely but no experience here yet.  Not to break the bank, but I am waiting for a matched pair of Jan/Philips 6922's to test the waters and will chime in again. If anyone would suggest a 6922 with open, live sound I would appreciate it.   Hope this won't start me rolling off the deep end. Pun intended.    
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Mac mini, linear ps, Audirvana +, Oppo 83 Rick Shultz mod, Prism Orpheus Dac, Synergistic tesla, Torii III stepped, V-caps, Ref 3A GV's.
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Hipfan
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #56 - 02/25/13 at 20:31:58
 
Interesting. Just reading this thread now. I recently purchased a new LP and the amp seemed to clip at volume. I thought it was just the recording. I just checked my input tubes and I think they are 6N1P, although it looks like 6H1n-EB stamped on the tube, but the box is labelled 6N1P. Looking for suggestions on a common 6922 replacement, that is on the warmer side.
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Torii MK3, Icon Audio PS2, Rega P5, azur 640C V2, Klipsch Forte II (Crites), PS Audio Duet, MAC cabling
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Lon
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #57 - 02/25/13 at 21:00:25
 
Yes, you have 6N1P, that on the tube is the Cyrillic equivalent.

I have no suggestions for 6922 as I prefer 6N1P and have never run into distortion issues.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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JD
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #58 - 02/25/13 at 22:28:03
 
Hipfan,

my favorite 6922's have been nos mullard and ediswan in that order. national 7dj8's worked well and were less inexpensive. good info on the torii III forum

JD
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Hipfan
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #59 - 02/25/13 at 22:32:25
 
Thanks JD. I will have a look there. I have never felt that my Torii MK3 had the crankability it should and now I "think" I know why.
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Torii MK3, Icon Audio PS2, Rega P5, azur 640C V2, Klipsch Forte II (Crites), PS Audio Duet, MAC cabling
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