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Decware Torii Mk III distortion (Read 3458 times)
will
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #50 - 02/19/13 at 00:41:10
 
Now THAT depends entirely on the 6922...I am running some 60s Amperex SQ pulls right now, and they are really sweet. 6922 do tend to be tighter in general though, more neutral, stronger...being the more "accurate" of the 6 types, and tending more toward a solid state sort of "feel"...but there are the very nice sounding ones to be sure. If you want more sense of harmonics and a less tight sound, the 6DJ8 and 7DJ8s will help there, the nicer NOS ones fitting somewhere between the 6922 and 6N1P (actually referred to as 6DJ8 type). The output of all these tubes is notably higher than the 6N1P as well, and it may be you will prefer different Rectifiers or VRs to balance and different treble bass settings (I realize I use these all the time for fine-tuning tube sets and don't know how I did without it!).....but being used to the 6N1P in your Torii, you don't have the issue anyway.

Wink
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C.E.
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #51 - 02/19/13 at 00:48:53
 
OK....let's just say I MAY audition a different tube. What's your choice for the smoothest 6922 NOS that's not going to break the bank?...

Thanks Will.
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orangecrush
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #52 - 02/19/13 at 01:06:36
 
I would like to hear Will answer that as well, just in case. But, so far my experience is same as you C.E.. No issues with the 61NP in my Torrii but I am using 16 ohm 100 dB speakers with 16 ohm taps on the Torii. My treble is turned  down as well. About 11:00 o'clock.
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« Last Edit: 02/19/13 at 01:15:12 by orangecrush »  
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C.E.
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #53 - 02/19/13 at 01:08:50
 
I think my amp has 4 and 8 ohm taps.
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Lon
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #54 - 02/19/13 at 03:00:57
 
Interesting. I have never liked 6922 tubes in the Torii; I've been using 6N1P since I have had the amp and have had no issues of distortion. I may be lucky. The supercryo'd from cryoset.com certainly work well.
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« Last Edit: 02/19/13 at 03:03:19 by Lon »  

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DaveH
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #55 - 02/21/13 at 14:18:28
 
Wow, glad I opened a can of worms, I was ready to sell my amp.  The input tubes that I received appear to read(tuff, not clear) either 6H17 or 6H11 EB. However, the dates read 11-81, and 07-84, also "OTK1" on the tubes. Steve mentioned the 6299's that would be sent as replacement for 6N1p's are either Solvteks or EH's. Is it possible the quality of the input tube has little effect on the the sound? Maybe not as much as a tube "type" issue.  Seems unlikely but no experience here yet.  Not to break the bank, but I am waiting for a matched pair of Jan/Philips 6922's to test the waters and will chime in again. If anyone would suggest a 6922 with open, live sound I would appreciate it.   Hope this won't start me rolling off the deep end. Pun intended.    
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Mac mini, linear ps, Audirvana +, Oppo 83 Rick Shultz mod, Prism Orpheus Dac, Synergistic tesla, Torii III stepped, V-caps, Ref 3A GV's.
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Hipfan
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #56 - 02/25/13 at 20:31:58
 
Interesting. Just reading this thread now. I recently purchased a new LP and the amp seemed to clip at volume. I thought it was just the recording. I just checked my input tubes and I think they are 6N1P, although it looks like 6H1n-EB stamped on the tube, but the box is labelled 6N1P. Looking for suggestions on a common 6922 replacement, that is on the warmer side.
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Lon
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #57 - 02/25/13 at 21:00:25
 
Yes, you have 6N1P, that on the tube is the Cyrillic equivalent.

I have no suggestions for 6922 as I prefer 6N1P and have never run into distortion issues.
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JD
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #58 - 02/25/13 at 22:28:03
 
Hipfan,

my favorite 6922's have been nos mullard and ediswan in that order. national 7dj8's worked well and were less inexpensive. good info on the torii III forum

JD
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Hipfan
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #59 - 02/25/13 at 22:32:25
 
Thanks JD. I will have a look there. I have never felt that my Torii MK3 had the crankability it should and now I "think" I know why.
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C.E.
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #60 - 02/25/13 at 23:20:32
 
So....if I (in my tiny brain) understand the "gist" of what's going on here...some of the more recent 6N1P's may have had some output issues (not enough power or gain)?

I do understand that there's always some variance in tubes, the average published gain (u) is 33 for the 6N1P, 6922, and 6DJ8 correct?
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DaveH
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #61 - 02/26/13 at 00:09:34
 
Hi Hipfan,
After being completely puzzeled by the tubes in my 6N1P box, I did some looking around. It appears that the tube in the 6N1p box is the Russian equivalent. In Russian, the N's appear as an H's and the "P" appears as a "pie" sign П п. Possibly no "P" n the Russian alphabet. The EV in the Russian tube is "EB". When I used the 6N1p, at the 8 ohm setting, my system  sounded superior to the 4 ohm, but still distorted.  Replacing it with the 6922, my system now gives me goose bumps in the 4 ohm setting. Base tight, most of the "boom"  is gone and plays at much higher db levels that are completely satifactory, 3-D clarity and transparency to beat the band and there is still quite a ways to go as this amp opens up.  I tried a matched pair of Jan/Philips 6922 and for under $60 bucks, I have something I can learn from, they sound great. The 6922 does not have as high a heater current as the 61np and as Steve indicated earlier, "It seems the 6N1P in a Zen TORII MKII or MKIII falls right on the edge of a window of operation where depending on how the tube tests, it could actually fall outside that window causing premature distortion.  The solution is to use 6922's, or at least avoid using 6N1P's in this amp."  It worked for me.  
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Pale Rider
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #62 - 02/26/13 at 01:52:26
 
Dave, glad to hear the progress. What you describe is how this amp should sound.
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Lon
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #63 - 02/26/13 at 04:30:29
 
C.E. wrote on 02/25/13 at 23:20:32:
So....if I (in my tiny brain) understand the "gist" of what's going on here...some of the more recent 6N1P's may have had some output issues (not enough power or gain)?

I do understand that there's always some variance in tubes, the average published gain (u) is 33 for the 6N1P, 6922, and 6DJ8 correct?


It does appear that Steve is saying that some tubes distort especially with age or low values on testing. I've been lucky, I've always apparently received tubes that have good values and don't distort. The last few years I've been using the super-cryo'd from cryoset.com and I trust that tubes I receive from Ron there always have been tested, matched and are reliable; I've had great success with these tubes.
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Lon
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #64 - 02/26/13 at 04:31:51
 
Dave, WHEW, so glad you are now "in the clear." Smiley
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DaveH
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #65 - 02/26/13 at 13:16:56
 
Tuff being an outsider looking in.  Finally in. Lon, missed your post, you had it, the tubes are labeled using the Cyrillic alphabet. Good info. Could, would someone comment on the significance of a 6N1P drawing more heater current than a 6299(other than the circuit being able to deliver it) as it may relate to the sound. Supposedly, these azbuka tubes have great linearity and longevity.  Can't give up on them, as said prior, maybe cryoset is the way to go.    
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Hipfan
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #66 - 02/27/13 at 22:18:46
 
OK, so I just picked up and installed a set of '63 vintage 6DJ8 Amperex Bugle Boys. It will take me a bit of time to evaluate how I like these, however the amp finally sounds like it's running on all 8 cylinders. It's amazing what a $35 set of tubes will do. MUCH better at volume and no distortion.
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Lon
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #67 - 02/27/13 at 22:38:40
 
Awesome! Those tubes have a helluva reputation, my guess is you'll find a lot of good sound in them.
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