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Decware Torii Mk III distortion (Read 11038 times)
MichaelHiFi
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #30 - 02/13/12 at 14:27:55
 
Morgan,

You would be my savior. But as I mentioned, it sang well last night. I still want to know the cause of the distortion. Best to perform and AB comparison.

I'll bring the Allnic.  :)
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Tyler Acoustic Decade D1's
Decware Torii Mk III
Allnic L3000 preamp
Oppo BDP95
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ski bum
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #31 - 02/13/12 at 15:21:57
 
Michael, I think it was the bass adjustment control set at a spot that was not advantageous with your speakers.  As mentioned, it does not operate like a typical tone control that boosts or cuts the bass, rather it acts as some sort of damping control, from loose to tight, with the 'correct' setting dependant on the particular speaker it's hooked up to and how it sounds in your room to your ears.

How are the Super V's coming along?
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MichaelHiFi
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #32 - 02/13/12 at 15:54:17
 
I'd like to talk with Steve regarding this bass control and how it may effect SQ on some speakers. But given an opportunity to AB compare with another Torii will tell all.

Super V's. The networks are built. The side panels are painted and need to be retrieved from the paint shop. I'm hopeful they did a good job! I need to talk with the designer regarding how these speakers are wired up. There's little to no information on the overall wiring of the 3 bass drivers and the single tweeter. In fact, come to think of it, I'm still missing the plate amps.  

Listening to the Decades now, through the Torii, I would have not bought this Super V speaker kit. On the other hand, I wouldn't have bought a 26 watt tube amp either.
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Tyler Acoustic Decade D1's
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ski bum
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #33 - 02/13/12 at 17:37:52
 
I'd love to eavesdrop on that conversation.  Maybe Steve will chip in on the thread so we can all benefit.  

I suspect that the particular speaker's mechanical compliance is a big factor on what the ideal bass control setting would be.  Also, if there are any passive crossover bits in there would have an effect.  I would expect something like a FRX2 or Hoyt Bedford full ranger to benefit from a different setting than, say your proposed P-Audio via passive network.  I would expect your Tylers (those look kick ass by the way...bet they sound awesome with the Torii...green with envy over here) to interact differently that the speakers the previous owner of the Torii was using, unless he had the Tylers too.  Could be that passive network bits disrupt damping, and so the full-left/off/whatever-it-is works best with the Tylers.

Seems to me that Steve has come up with something far more useful than a simple tone control, giving great flexibility and adaptability to a wide variety of speakers.  If it is indeed some sort of 'dial-a-Q', then every speaker would benefit from a spot somewhere on the Torii's range of adjustment based on it's underlying characteristics, unique to each different speaker.  I know of no other amps that have such a thing.  That's just flat out pretty cool, isn't it?      
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« Last Edit: 02/13/12 at 18:17:20 by ski bum »  
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Morganc
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #34 - 02/13/12 at 18:15:49
 
I agree that it sounds like the bass knob, but regardless still come and bring the Pre with the Torii Smiley
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will
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #35 - 02/13/12 at 20:23:20
 
Unless it is the bass knob adjustment in concert with bad impedance matching between the amp and speakers, this would surprise me. The amp was designed using a wide range of speakers with the objective of the bass knob being an adjustment for sound taste preferences and room difficulties as opposed to driving a speaker too hard or not. But it is conceivable! I look forward to your findings.
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Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-6, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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MichaelHiFi
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #36 - 02/15/12 at 16:40:43
 
Called Decware and left a message for Steve. I have not received a call back so I'm still in the dark regarding this issue. I'm hopeful to see Morgan this week still. Would love to hear his rig and the Decware with the Super V's. Also, to clear the mystery of the health of my Torii. Should be interesting too, to here how the Allnic plays in his system.
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Tyler Acoustic Decade D1's
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MichaelHiFi
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #37 - 02/23/12 at 04:02:50
 
Following my latest thread "Wow, what happened", I think I found the problem. A failing and finally failed transformer. The Torii is on it's way back to Steve for a rebuild.

It's very quiet around here...
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Tyler Acoustic Decade D1's
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will
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #38 - 02/23/12 at 04:28:02
 
Glad you got that sorted. It is best to get a thorough look over from Steve with used gear anyway and may be he will reinstate the warranty??

Good Luck and sorry for the quiet!
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« Last Edit: 02/23/12 at 04:28:46 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-6, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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Lon
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #39 - 02/23/12 at 13:36:28
 
The mystery solved! I'm sure Steve will set you right.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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DaveH
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #40 - 02/17/13 at 18:12:17
 
I have a torii III V-cap, stepped atten, stock tubes. Mac mini, linear PS, Latest Audirvana Plus, Prism Firewire Dac, Torii II, Ref 3A GV's which are 90 db at 1 watt, linear 5 ohm impedence, terrible distortion midrange and  bass. I can't get peaks much over 90 db in my room .  It sounds as if the amp were clipping. Same result when feed the dac with analog from an Oppo, firewire from the mm, or Spdif from an Oppo. The Ref 3 A's do not like feedback but I could sure use some.  Please help, need a place to start. Thank you
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Mac mini, linear ps, Audirvana +, Oppo 83 Rick Shultz mod, Prism Orpheus Dac, Synergistic tesla, Torii III stepped, V-caps, Ref 3A GV's.
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DaveH
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #41 - 02/17/13 at 19:40:47
 
BTW, I thought it might have been my setting in my Dac,clock, Audirvanna, mac settings, just put back my Sim Moon W-5 back in, sounds brand new. Could it be the Decware??? I've done countless combo's on the Torii.
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Mac mini, linear ps, Audirvana +, Oppo 83 Rick Shultz mod, Prism Orpheus Dac, Synergistic tesla, Torii III stepped, V-caps, Ref 3A GV's.
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Lon
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"Love without
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #42 - 02/17/13 at 21:19:26
 
I'm not sure exactly what is going on. I assume this is happening with both channels?

Is it possible you have 6N2P tubes at the input? The only time I had distortion and hum from the Torii Mk III was when using those as inputs instead of 6N21P (or 6922 types, I don't like those in the Torii).
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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DaveH
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Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #43 - 02/18/13 at 15:30:30
 
Hi Lon, Thanks for your interest.  Both channels are affected, 6N1p-EV (not 2P) are in the correct sockets. On the tube it reads 6H17-EB, the box its from reads 6N1p-EV. When I read MichaelHiFi from one year ago when he states "bass is a mess", I think these would be my words exactly. Everything, midrange, very dark sounding, Treble all the way clockwise from the get go, no issues there but not the air of the SS amp, no hum, dead silent. I know the V-caps have a ways to go. Turning bass control full clockwise, more cone movement (using filtered pink noise 400 hz and down)but does not change the overall character of the issues. My audiocontrol RTA shows a at least a 3 db spike over the SS amp at 50-60 hz.  My ignorant conclusions, 1. Am I clipping the amp? Can't get much over 90 db (largish  room 16x27x12, sit 10 feet from speaker), without becoming unlistenable, 2. 2 bad tubes?, or 2 wrong tubes, 3. transformer. 4. Lastly, this is the character of the amp and its a mismatch for the GV's, maybe due to the fact it was voiced on very efficient speakers that sometimes are in need of bass. Could power going to the bass be sucking the life out of the amp allowing it to clip.?These GV's are EZ speakers to drive. BTW, 4 ohm setting, everything collapses relative to the 8 setting. What does a failing transformer sound like?  
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Mac mini, linear ps, Audirvana +, Oppo 83 Rick Shultz mod, Prism Orpheus Dac, Synergistic tesla, Torii III stepped, V-caps, Ref 3A GV's.
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Lon
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"Love without
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Posts: 7915
Re: Decware Torii Mk III distortion
Reply #44 - 02/18/13 at 15:51:21
 
Dave, something does not seem right in this. I have one of the first Mk IIIs made and I don't have the bass controls. I always have my treble reduced, partly room/house build, but it's an amp that from the git go had lots of brightness available.

I think it's unlikely that it's tubes. . . but I don't know for sure. If it were a transformer it would have to be at least two of them and that doesn't seem that likely to me.

Something is not right.

To be honest, I think a call to Steve and probably a trip back to the mother ship is the best next step. . . .
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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