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Mini Torii's best iddle-time power status strategy (Read 4505 times)
Fireblade
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Mini Torii's best iddle-time power status strategy
01/23/12 at 16:40:57
 
Hi! I thought I would ask proud owners of the Mini Torii how you go about the power status of your amp during iddle time.  Do you keep it on stand by? Off? On?  How long before you start listening again do you power it on?

I checked the owner's manual on line but there's not a straight answer to this question.  If I've missed an existing thread discussing this very topic I apologize.

Thanks for your support.
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ZYGI
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Re: Mini Torii's best iddle-time power status strategy
Reply #1 - 01/23/12 at 19:08:06
 
Fireblade...

 To my knowledge, the Mini Torii doesn't have a standby switch. Maybe this is why is there isn't a straight forward answer to the question. I know my unit does not have a standby switch...it is the very first one ever built my volume controls, are my on/off switches. But I'm sure that none of them have standby.

I leave it on most of the day, if I know there might be a chance I can back to listening. Sometimes I've left it on all night. I've also turned it on and off as much as ten times with in an hour with no ill effects.

Bullet proof as always.....

Zygi
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini Torii's best iddle-time power status strategy
Reply #2 - 01/23/12 at 19:36:53
 
Thanks, ZIGY.  I ask because I just remembered with my VTL 225 Deluxe monoblocks I had to turn them on about an hour before being able to start listening, as by then they were warm enough for their best amplification.  As I recall, they also had a standby state switch which was on all the iddle time (kept the circuits ready for operation and prevented humidity problems).

Also, I could not leave them powered on indefinitely because the heat was significant (too many EL34 tubes, in a 225 W/c Push-Pull arrangement).  It is understandable that a low power unit like the Mini would not create heating or energy-wasting problems.

Take care now ...



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Fireblade
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Re: Mini Torii's best iddle-time power status strategy
Reply #3 - 01/23/12 at 19:38:38
 
I'm sorry I mispelled your forum name, ZYGI.
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Rivieraranch
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Re: Mini Torii's best iddle-time power status strategy
Reply #4 - 01/23/12 at 22:54:03
 
I am told it takes 20 minutes for the MINI TORII to sound its best, but I don't notice. Mine sounds great to me right after the tubes light up.
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ZYGI
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Re: Mini Torii's best iddle-time power status strategy
Reply #5 - 01/24/12 at 01:05:23
 
Fireblade...No problem on the spelling, I get that all the time. My actual name on the forum, the name in which I sign in under is actually Ziggy but shows up as Zygi. I changed it after my dad passed, when I found out that was how he spelled his nick name. I guess growing up, I had never noticed.

My little 12 watt Torii can heat a room nicely in winter, and it sounds so good while while I enjoy the music and the warmth.

With either of my Torii's, as soon as they start making music, its good. Sure it might get better after an hour or so, but it still sounds great the first five minutes.

I had a ZSLA line stage Steve sold a few years back, when the wife and I bought a new house, and I got the stereo hooked up, I turned on the line stage and it remained on for nearly six years., Then when we moved to NC I packed it up and it has been packed for almost 5 years now. I should get it out and try it again.

Zygi
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini Torii's best iddle-time power status strategy
Reply #6 - 01/24/12 at 01:16:08
 
It's good to hear, Rivieraranch, thanks.  One less issue to consider!  

May I ask you, what do you think would be better for classical orchestral music (i.e., symphonies, concerts, etc.), as well as classic 50's & 60's jazz listening preferences, a SEP like the Mini or a SET like the SE34i.3?

By what I've been able to gather so far, conceptually, the Mini should get the upper hand in said musical scenarios (bass and slam), whereas the integrated (SET) would excell in more acoustical jazz and classical chamber music, for example (more detail at mid to high ranges).

It's similar to opposing spectra from an equalizer.  I know Steve's design on the Mini has managed to get sort of the best out of both worlds, or at least that's what transpires from the literature in the site.  But with the advent of the revised SE34i.3, I wonder.

Just your opinion, please.  Even if you have not had the SE34i ever, I'm sure you have already conceived an idea about those two topologies in general, from the point of view of a Decware user (Mini and other).

I'm sorry if I'm imposing on you, but I need to know this before I try to swap my Mini order (pending for delivery) for a SE34i.3 order (if Steve suggests, of course).  And I thought my decisions were all covered ... Ha!

Take care now, thanks ...

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Fireblade
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Re: Mini Torii's best iddle-time power status strategy
Reply #7 - 01/24/12 at 01:39:40
 
Hey Ziggy, thanks for sharing that.  I lived four and a half years in NC myself (Chapel Hill).  Nice place!  Where I live now, though, we don't need any more heat, actually.  So I guess it's good that the Mini Torii is relatively low heat producing (low power).

I understand preamplifiers (line stages) are relatively simple circuits, so there's not much heat creation.  Their tubes also tend to last much longer than amps', so I'm not surprised with your experience, especially being Decware.

Take care now ...

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Rivieraranch
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Re: Mini Torii's best iddle-time power status strategy
Reply #8 - 01/24/12 at 03:39:49
 
It seems that the news of the updated SE34I.3 has rekindled the lust for one. But you were chasing specs in the beginning, perhaps.

I believe that since then, you have thought it out thoroughly. The SET design has its allure with its unique reproduction of simple music, while the SEP handles more complex music better.  If I were in your position, I would still tilt towards the MINI.

I have a ZEN amplifier, which when paired with the TRAPEZIUM speakers really shines. However, the ZEN can occasionally run out of steam. But not in my office setup. The demand for volume is not there in that setting.

My MINI TORII at home has never run out of steam on anything. Not on my Bernard Hermann soundtracks, not on "Carmen" or RCA Living Stereo classical discs. I find you have to hold the volume down because it can get too loud. Even at lower volumes the detail is still there.

Don't forget the advantages of tube regulation. The MINI has it, but the new SE34I.3 will not - unless something changes. The tube regulation cleans up the power and enhances the sonic capabilities.

You can speak to DECKERT about this again and you should; but I suspect that his advice for the MINI will remain the same; it is too good.
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Lon
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Re: Mini Torii's best iddle-time power status stra
Reply #9 - 01/24/12 at 11:57:45
 
I'm going to stand up for the Integrated a bit. It's unfair to infer that because the little Zen runs out of steam that the Integrated will, there's a big difference in those two amps and not only in power output. The .2 version of the Integrated had its fair share of bass slam and dynamics and I played classical music of all stripes on it with satisfaction. The only time I really ran out of steam was in a rather large room and with a very low voltage source, and with HR-1s which are not as db efficient as FB's speakers.

I love my Torii very much. I will say however that there is something in the SET (or perhaps the way Steve had it wired it's better to say "SE Psuedo-Triode") sound that I'd really rather have if I could also have enough power. Ultimately I chose my speakers (especially the fantastic ERR) over the amp. . . . If an Integrated could handle the ERRs in this larger room with lots of headroom, I'd have the Integrated instead just for that extra single-ended magic.

Anyway FB you can't go wrong with any of these amps as long as your speakers are happy. And I'm not sure there'd be an appreciable difference between the Integrated and the Mini in that manner. Steve is your best source of real comparisions.
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini Torii's best iddle-time power status strategy
Reply #10 - 01/24/12 at 13:54:22
 
Hi guys, thanks so much for your kind assistance.  

I reckon both of you have brought to the table very valid arguments.  Rivieraranch reflects it's appreciation for the dynamic/bass characteristics of the Mini, whereas Lon remembers the special, typical Triode sound on the Integrated.

IMHO, the power issue is not an argument anymore, though, as the Integrated has 5.8 W/c at 4 Ohms.  Granted, not being powered by beam tubes it may not behave as dynamically as the Mini, regardless of the absolute power.

So there we have it, the eternal dichotomy: The unique sound of a SET vs the dynamics of a SEP.  The problem compounds itself if you factor in my delight for both types of music, for the same reasons.  Nothing like a well played cello piece and nothing with the martial force of Beethoven's symphonies.  Different styles, both amazingly thrilling!

I guess the point brought by Rivieraranch may be crucial:  Power regulation stages.  I'm in no position to invest in a PS Audio regeneration plant, so an isolation transformer will have to do.  Therefore, voltage regulation in series (working as as a filter, in Steve's Mini design) may make an important difference.

I suspect this is the way Steve is thinking about it, as he stressed that out to me when we talked over the phone last time.  Evidently, with a PS Audio plant (for the Integrated), both amps are at the same sonic levels due to the Lucid Mode, but that is a condition I won't be able to meet anytime soon (I'd rather get the Torii MK III for that kind of money).

So, I'm going in a circle and getting back to my senses again, I guess.  I really appreciate your ideas, as these have proven invaluable to help me get the overview back again.  I apologize for the bother.  Take good care now ...










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Lon
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Re: Mini Torii's best iddle-time power status stra
Reply #11 - 01/24/12 at 14:05:25
 
I don't know what makes you feel that a Decware SET Integrated lacks bass and dynamics. They don't.

But I don't think you'll find bass and dynamics lacking with the .3, I'd be very surprised if it's any different in that regard to the .2.

Also, I think this "cleansing" of the power is a bit over-stated. I really haven't noticed it to be that big an improvement, the real improvement is in altering the sound via tube-rolling in these points of the circuit, which may or may not be a good thing. I hate spending half of my time looking for tubes and playing around with tubes. I personally feel that the Toriis I have with the "cleaning" power regulation still benefit greatly from power conditioning and IMO weren't significantly different in this regard to the Integrated. I had both without power regeneration. And on top of that, the .3 may have the same "cleaning" regulation.

I won't say any more about it. I'll recommend another conversation with Steve and bow out of it.
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« Last Edit: 01/24/12 at 14:13:07 by Lon »  

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Fireblade
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Re: Mini Torii's best iddle-time power status strategy
Reply #12 - 01/24/12 at 14:14:01
 
Oh, I agree it may be the case.  The point I'm making, though, is that dirty power from the mains really affects the sound, imparting grainy textures, as this was indeed stressed by Steve last time.  He said literally: Without a PS Audio Plant I would not recommend the SE34i.2 these days.

Nothing has changed with the Integrated in this sense, as no voltage regulation mods have been listed in Steve's description of the new amp.  So I had forgotten this point which I feel is crucial in my case.

Your point is well taken, though.  I'm sure the Integrated coupled with the PS Audio would make one hell of an amp.  Thanks, Lon.
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Lon
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Re: Mini Torii's best iddle-time power status stra
Reply #13 - 01/24/12 at 14:19:04
 
My point is I had the Integrated with an isolation transformer and it was a helluvan amp. I don't know why Steve is stressing what he was stressing, but it's not an absolute necessity for the .2, I owned one for a few years, used it for some time as my main amp in my house with really shitty power coming out of the wall.

Anyway, I'm out of the discussion.
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Fireblade
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Re: Mini Torii's best iddle-time power status strategy
Reply #14 - 01/24/12 at 14:21:33
 
I've also asked Sarah by eMail, as a favor, to ask Steve to reconsider his original suggestion and confirm it, or else to suggest the new amp.  I'm waiting for her reply.  Thanks for your interest, Lon.  I really appreciate it.
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