Forums - NEW SE34I.3 coming soon!

stone_of_tone

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Re: NEW SE34I.3 coming soon!
Reply #105 - 02/20/12 at 05:34:29

Fireblade wrote:
"Riviera: Thanks for the confirmation. Sound-wise, have you heard/noticed big differences between, say, your Mini Torii and a Zen Triode? I'm sure these exist, just want to know if they are significant."

I'm diggin' what everyone wrote here, but:
Pentodes run in Triode with no negative feedback vs. Pentodes in PP with no negative feedback.......sound very different. I need both the SE84CS and Torii 3....and I rotate. I am deciding on which .3 to get..... . See the thread: "My SE84C & Torii are fighting" etc...in the Torii III Forum for more sentiments.

My, "Reference-keep you glued to your listening seat-system" with Contemporary Jazz to a lot of good Blues and Blues Rock is my SE84CS with Kimber Select (listed in signature) and my AA gear with remote wand driving the SE84CS direct. Plus the original SV83 Svetlana tube is very special to me (6N15NM) paraphrasing the Russian letters. Wide bandwidth video tube with delicate wiring and a very cool getter halo on top. Extended treble/nuance/decay/tone and timbre with air all around and sparkle not matched by anything else; if your front end is up to it with cables and the speakers. My Kimber Select 1030 especially takes the SE84CS to another level. Furthermore, I only have two pair of speakers out of nine pair I own that will sing with the SE84CS & Torii.....well worth the effort.

I just picked up a complete Audio Alchemy front end from Audiogon and it runs flawless. (I am still grinning over this find!) I'm using that with SState and a pair of Genesis Genre II's that have the Kapton Ribbon Planar Tweeter......very nice. Of course I also run this 2nd AA front end to my behemoth SDA SRS Polk 1.2 speakers. However, it's not the SE84CS fidelity or Torii 3.

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« Last Edit: 02/20/12 at 06:13:06 by stone_of_tone »

Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
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Fireblade

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wisdom lingers.
A.L.Tennyson

Posts: 628

Re: NEW SE34I.3 coming soon!
Reply #106 - 02/20/12 at 15:13:50

Hi stone, thanks for sharing your experiences. I get it that among LE84 pentodes, there are competing sound differences between SEP and PP configurations, in class A, and that your true fidelity reference setup is a beam tube SEP wired as a triode (i.e., SE84C+).

This has made you consider the .3 as an interesting alternative, due to its natural Triode tube (EL34) and the SET configuration, class A, assuming of course all the other elements in the chain are up to the task.

If I understood you correctly, this confirms my initial hesitation. I would like to have the fidelity (transparency, liquidity, air, soundstage, etc.) of a Triode SET, without the possible weaknesses involved, if any. Nevertheless, I know the Mini is a pentode (6V6) tube SEP wired up as a Triode and a class A (almost no feedback) amp, sharing much of those characteristics, with some tradeoffs already discussed earlier.

It would be interesting to hear your evaluation of the new integrated, compared with your current SE84C+ reference setup. I suspect the Hazen Mod plus the more linear behavior of the natural Triode would bring up some sound differences. Specifically, I would assume differences in the frequency extremes relative to the midrange and some pleasant harmonics being added.

In the end, I think having the weakest link of the total setup up to par is far more important than slight differences in these design choices, assuming they have been correctly designed and built.

Please correct me if I've come to the wrong conclusions. Thanks again ...

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« Last Edit: 02/20/12 at 17:33:08 by Fireblade »

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Fireblade

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Knowledge comes, but
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A.L.Tennyson

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Re: NEW SE34I.3 coming soon!
Reply #107 - 02/21/12 at 02:15:24

Sorry, you're right, that's a Pentode, and the 6V6 of the Mini is really a Beam-Tetrode.

In any event, I was thinking in terms of what Steve wrote back in 2000:

In a pentode such as the EL34 where the screens are not tied together internally, it is possible to wire it as a "true triode". It is the only pentode I know of that is.

So, in this sense, one can assume this tube as a Triode if wired accordingly. So much so, that many people automatically assume the EL34 will be used as a Triode in most designs.

The mistake is in my expression: 'natural Triode', which by the above, is definitely wrong. My point remains, though, in that one (EL34) is a virtual Triode while the other (EL84) resembles a Triode (pseudo-Triode), thus, having definite differences in sound.

Good point, opnly_bafld, thanks!

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« Last Edit: 02/21/12 at 02:59:37 by Fireblade »

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Fireblade

Seasoned Member

Knowledge comes, but
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A.L.Tennyson

Posts: 628

Re: NEW SE34I.3 coming soon!
Reply #108 - 02/21/12 at 14:37:48

It's not that I missed that, but it is just a generalization. What I mean is, I'm sure you would agree then, that Steve should also be making solid-state amplifiers, or less sensitive (more crossovers) speakers. Since it also depends on all the other variables anyway, according to this generalization, it could well be that a certain SS gear has the best sounding possibilities.

The point is, assuming you start with what people consider the best amp configuration for your particular objectives, means you're one step closer to get there. Whereas, you could change all the other variables in the setup and still miss the best sound because you started with a less than optimal amp for those specific goals.

IMHO, under the same conditions, an amp configuration will take you to your objectives easier than another. You'll still have to get everything else up to par with it. Just thinking ...

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Fireblade

Seasoned Member

Knowledge comes, but
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A.L.Tennyson

Posts: 628

Re: NEW SE34I.3 coming soon!
Reply #109 - 02/21/12 at 20:52:56

By the way, stone-of-tone, I read the referenced thread and have come up with a general impression (based on all you guys' described experiences), that the Mini Torii may well be in the middle of this continuum between crisp detail, sweet transparency, speed of transients (SE84C+) and high fidelity power and dynamics, complex resolution of congested passages (Torii III).

As described by Steve about the Mini Torii, 'it behaves as a Torii III' but also shares as many of the traits of the SE84C+ and company, making it, for me, the ideal amp to have in a smallish room environment for jazz and classical orchestral music listening.

And this was all set in my mind before all the talk about the new SE34i.3, which triggered my original question. I guess we'll have to wait for the new owners of the amp for impressions and comparisons, but as I said before, there are definitely tradeoffs involved, and I think for someone sticking to a single amp (for a long time, at least), the Mini Torii sounds like the best bet.

No wonder Steve recommended the Mini Torii to me, after considering my specific listening objectives. Thanks to all for your inputs.

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markv

Verified Member

Posts: 47

Re: NEW SE34I.3 coming soon!
Reply #110 - 02/21/12 at 21:28:07

Fireblade -

When you ordered your Mini Torii did you upgrade to VCAPs? The reason I'm asking is I thought I saw the VCAP option listed for the MT awhile back, but now it does not appear on the "Add to Cart" page. I've reviewed the MT forums and there is no talk of VCAPs with the MT - maybe it is not recommended? Just curious.

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Fireblade

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Re: NEW SE34I.3 coming soon!
Reply #111 - 02/21/12 at 22:41:26

Hi markv! When I ordered the Mini Torii, there was not that option, nor have I learned of it's possible existence until your mentioning it.

I'm not even sure what good it would do, although I've read Steve's claim for other Decware amps, that except for the more expensive Teflon VCaps, the Caps used in his designs are all audiophile grade, and cannot be improved upon.

Hope this clarifies your doubts.

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Fireblade

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Knowledge comes, but
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Posts: 628

Re: NEW SE34I.3 coming soon!
Reply #112 - 02/22/12 at 14:17:24

I think it would be interesting to look at this possibility (the CuTf VCap), as after some research, I found out many positive opinions with the replacement of the coupling caps with this particular brand and foil material.

I assume you have one (1) of those per channel (for the output tubes?), and the cost may be around $250.00/pair of CuTf VCaps, plus replacement labor. Not that expensive if it's true it will improve that much the original sound.

I'm not even sure if this is applicable to a Mini Torii (as originally brought up by markv). Only Steve may know, but I sure hope someone in this forum, other than Steve (the Man is real busy), may participate with some leads into this promising topic.

Here's a link to the designer of the CuTf VCaps:

http://www.v-cap.com/audiotechnique-v-cap-review.php

Later ...

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« Last Edit: 02/22/12 at 14:20:24 by Fireblade »

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Steve Deckert Administrator If the 1st watt sucks why continue? Posts: 2224	Re: NEW SE34I.3 coming soon! Reply #113 - 02/23/12 at 15:52:50 Vcaps in a Mini Torii are not an option. They are physically too large to fit, plus the mini has 4 caps rather than 2.
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Fireblade Seasoned Member Knowledge comes, but wisdom lingers. A.L.Tennyson Posts: 628	Re: NEW SE34I.3 coming soon! Reply #114 - 02/23/12 at 16:41:01 Thanks for the input, Mr. Deckert. It would be definitely expensive having to replace 4 of them, even if these would fit!
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Lord Soth

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Posts: 110

Re: NEW SE34I.3 coming soon!
Reply #115 - 02/29/12 at 12:30:02

Quote:

Posted by Markv "Steve - I know you have numerous configurations available, but I was really hoping for a headphone option"

+1 to the headphone request.

Dear Steve, I too hope that you will consider adding a headphone option to "Rachel" ala the "Taboo" or the Mini Torii.

If available, the EL34 based sonics will make this a fantastic headphone amp.

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Rivieraranch Seasoned Member Posts: 1109	Re: NEW SE34I.3 coming soon! Reply #116 - 03/01/12 at 23:45:02 I stand a hair's breath away from ordering one of these babies. I understand there will still be a significant wait. I am trying to decide whether to get one with a single volume or a dual volume control. Who else is in my same position?
Back to top	DECWARE CSP2+, TABOO; MINI TORII SE #33; SE84CKC; MG944 speakers; TRAPEZIUM DESKTOP SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 turntable; Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CD player; MARANTZ 2226B, 2216B receivers; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones IP Logged

busterfree

Senior Member

Posts: 66

Re: NEW SE34I.3 coming soon!
Reply #117 - 03/02/12 at 02:04:55

I ordered one, but I am not a fan of dual volume controls. I went with the stepped volume upgrade. I have no plans to ever sell this amp. I am looking forward to it. My SE84C+ will be my back up amp...

I was bummed when the SE34I.2 went away. I was a hair away from ordering one. Then, I looked at the Mini Torii. I did not like the gain and the dual volume controls. I was glad to see the new SE34I.3.

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Lon Seasoned Member "Love without guts is worthless!" Philip K. D*ck Posts: 5232	Re: NEW SE34I.3 coming soon! Reply #118 - 03/02/12 at 02:05:19 I had an SE34.2 model with dual volume controls. It was very useful to me as I could compensate for an asymmetrical speaker placement with the separate volume controls. It was very easy to match the channels when in a symmetrical positioning as well. I enjoyed the flexibility.
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hifitubes Senior Member Posts: 75	Re: NEW SE34I.3 coming soon! Reply #119 - 03/03/12 at 08:53:36 If I order, is my card charged upon ship? I need to get in line!
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