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Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects (Read 16971 times)
Fireblade
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Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
01/08/12 at 20:12:36
 
I have two pairs of decent ones, but cannot really tell if they are good or not.  Bought them many years ago so I don't remember what these are. They seem to be working alright in my current system.

The RCA terminal connectors have a black Bat logo on them, and the cable has the code: ZTC 75005.  Anyone knows what these are?

Anyway, I need to learn from your experience with interconnects.  Are there any good sounding and cost-effective that you know of?  Should we get Decware's DSRII?

Honest user opinions are quite welcomed. Thanks!
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Pale Rider
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #1 - 01/08/12 at 22:02:47
 
I love the Decware ICs, but also have some of these Audioquest for longer lengths. And they don't quite have he wait time of the DSRs.

Steve has indicated they are building a shielded less expensive RG6/U, but I haven't seen it yet on the website.
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Lon
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #2 - 01/09/12 at 00:03:50
 
I'll agree with Greg on both counts. I've only one analog interconnect in my main system at the moment, but it's a Decware Silver Reference and I've tried a few other brands and an earlier version or two of the Decware and I can't take it out. The all silver Audioquest Greg linked to is a very good cable, and I have used that but in comparison the Decware is clearer and more open. I've tried TARA Labs and PS Audio interconnects and those are now in a closet. There are two of the Decware cables in my second system, a half-meter to connect my DEC685 to my CSP2 and a meter to connect my CSP2 to my Torii Mk II. Their compatibility with Decware components is superb.

The one drawback I've found is that they do take time to "break in." If you believe such a thing exists. . . break in time.
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« Last Edit: 01/09/12 at 01:31:43 by Lon »  

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Fireblade
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #3 - 01/09/12 at 04:03:53
 
Pale Rider and Lon, thanks.  That link (HCM Audio) seems quite useful. At least while stock lasts. These seem very well put together and the description is quite similar to Decware's.  I suspect Decware's are probably better but I'll start with these Silver Extreme from Audioquest. Later ...
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will
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #4 - 01/09/12 at 07:24:35
 
I like Decware cables too. Also, I have gotten some really good MAC cables on Audiogon auctions very inexpensively. I got some UltraSilver ($329) for about 60. By all appearances and sound, they are made similarly to Decware, but have a slightly more solid and transparent presentation to me. I use them over my Decwares. I just looked at their site http://www.myaudiocables.com/ and it looks like they are using a new auction area. Check this one: www.proaux.com more specifically:
http://www.proaux.com/3-MAC-UltraSilver-ICs,name,3276,auction_id,auction_details...

Could possibly get a real bargain on a very good cable.
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Pale Rider
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #5 - 01/09/12 at 16:52:15
 
Hey Will, thanks for those links.

I also seem to recall that Steve has mentioned another cable company, with whom he has worked, and on whom he has commented very favorably, and if I recall correctly, he was specifically positive on their power cords. Anyone recall who that was?
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Lon
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #6 - 01/09/12 at 16:56:13
 
That was MAC, or My Audio Cable, the cables that will is recommending. I've used one of their power cables. .. I wasn't too impressed. It was the Digital Sound Pipe. Didn't work for me in audio, was too thin and edgy even months and months later. . . I use it on my bedroom tv. It failed on me at one point, but MAC repaired it for free.
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Fireblade
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #7 - 01/09/12 at 18:24:35
 
Thanks to all for the good suggestions.  

I think I'm sticking with Audioquest Super Silver interconnects for now.  Best price for the specs (except for that MAC auction, which may take forever to win, and I need to place my order with the importer this week), and is $41.55 less expensive than Decware's (0.5 Mtrs).

Checked the power cords at MAC, too expensive for me.  Still looking for a better than standard, affordable one, over Volex or even Yellow Fish.

I guess you have all read those articles out there by credited people, saying all this 'cable sound' stuff is subjective and without scientific base.  Who knows?  If you guys can tell the difference, then I guess there must be one.

Same with the cable 'breaking-in' concept.  I guess the differences in sound over time must be related to the insulation materials involved.  For example, the bee wax is a natural, micro-porous, light density organic material, filled with air (great insulator).  I would expect changes there and not in the metal conductors, for example.

Anyway, I found out my current interconnects have Vampire (Black Bat Logo) RCA terminals, which are supposed to be good.  I don't know anything about the cables themselves.  

Thanks, later ...
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Pale Rider
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #8 - 01/09/12 at 18:34:45
 
Fireblade, I now there are people who can hear things I cannot. And I know there are phenomena for which we often have no explanation. I am an objectivist at heart, but as wise man once said: "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." Just because we cannot prove or disprove something, does not mean that it is or isn't happening.

I used to be in that "bits is bits" camp. But a simple read of why CDs are not truly digital will teach one to be circumspect about such conclusions.

If humans can repeatedly, and reliably discern something that a machine cannot, that doesn't mean it isn't happening [though it could mean that], but it definitely means we might not know how or why. So, over time, I have come to the conclusion that quality power cords and ICs appear to contribute to the holographic sound we are trying to achieve with this equipment. Can I double-blind pick the same cables out every time? Nope. But I can discern, as my wife did just the other day: "wow, it's like an empty stage, and suddenly there is music in all the right places."

I can tell when that is happening, and my odds of getting it seem to increase with the improvements in which I have invested. Now, for me, it probably means that a $179 power cord is arguably worthwhile, while a $795 power cord might not be.

I am a big fan of chaos theory, which I succinctly summarize with a small sign on my desk that says: "Everything matters." Some of it may matter more than others, but it all contributes to the outcome.

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Fireblade
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #9 - 01/09/12 at 19:07:09
 
Absolutely, and well put, Pale Rider.  I'm eclectic myself, and like I meant earlier, if people can tell the difference, something's going on, even if we don't have an explanation, yet.

I also agree with your implied diminishing returns appraisal.  There seems to be a marketplace threshold at around $150.00, for all kinds of interconnect and speaker cables, after which clear benefits should be less tangible.

In my view, power cords do not belong to this level of sensitivity, though.  If the power source is clean enough, a good conductor, with good insulation and proper assembly of quality materials should do fine for the money. That's just my opinion.

BTW, I misnamed the IRON LUNG JELLYFISH POWER CORDS earlier by calling them Yellow Fish power cords ...   I guess it remainded me of my sea fishing adventures back in time ...  Sorry!

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will
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #10 - 01/09/12 at 19:33:34
 
Greg, Can you recall the MAC thing Steve spoke of. I looked around and could not find it, but if memory serves I believe he was working with MAC on Decware power cords early on? Maybe still is??? Hmmmm. Can't say for sure.

Anyway, the Ultra Silver is a great IC. I got onto them quite a while ago since I needed more ICs, wanted more options, and they were very inexpensive at auction. If you like the Decware IC, I would be surprised if you did not like the UltraSilver. I just did a direct comparison, and they are very similar in look, feel and sound though the MAC have Neutric RCAs and my Decwares have simple silver RCAs. With the Tranquility DAC, I would say the MAC sounds like the Decwre IC, but with everything a little more smooth, solid and defined top to bottom, including body and a touch more warmth without detail masking. Also better black.

Fireblade, MAC makes a lot of different cord configurations for each use and had I not gotten onto their auctions, I may not have any of them either. I have a pair of Braided Silver ICs that are the only thing I consistently like between the ZDAC and ZSTAGE to date. They sound very accurate and defined, no wishy washiness, which for me completed the synergistic thing between these components in my setup. But for a primary interconnect The MAC Ultra Silver has brilliant definition, but also a very convincing, "not-cable" feel. To me it does not have a sound...but I might call it defined, nuanced, smooth and musical. Nothing sticks out.

I have a MAC HC power cord, and it gets out of the way pretty well, but I would not call it a favorite. It works really well in my modded Oppo though and brought out noted improvements over the stock and over a VH-Audio cable I DIYd. More flow, definition and palpability. A no Brainer for the 50 bucks at auction. And the VH cable sounds great in the ZSTAGE.

Have you checked out the Shunyata cords. Their least expensive Venom 3 has gotten good press and it has temped me to try it, but I have not. May be worth looking at if you get to wanting to dip your toe in the power cord waters. http://www.musicdirect.com/p-9670-shunyata-venom-3-power-cable.aspx

It always interests me the vocal dudes who so adamantly say a cable is a cable or whatever is a whatever. There is no clear explanation for this to me, but I guess it has to be there system, room, or bodies somehow truncating the sound. If you can't hear the difference, then there is no need to go into it, but if you can, I have found that every cable I have notably improves the stock stuff, and a variety of decent cables is quite useful for fine-tuning component synergy.

I agree entirely with Greg's thoughts on this. Science is only trying to figure out reality anyway, but always through the filters of the scientist doing the work (which very rarely comes without personal bias and "baggage") and from within the limitations of the time, effort and technology. Actually, I seem to hear everything...which is sometimes a bit of a curse. But I love the quest for experiential reality. As with power cords, ICs and tube amps, reality is a vast matrix of unified complexity, and if science could read it in its most minute detail, and with the unification factors of the billions of details that make music, it could describe what we hear. But with good gear and a good room, the simple experience gives us all the wonders of all this input.

I wonder, why bother with the science unless it is truly and purely used in a quest for a better and healthier relationship to life. This is why I don't get the naysayers who have for some reason denied what they hear, or can't hear what others can hear.
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« Last Edit: 01/09/12 at 21:15:06 by will »  

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Lon
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #11 - 01/09/12 at 20:08:17
 
will, look here for the My Audio Cable mention:

http://www.decware.com/paper70.htm
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will
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #12 - 01/09/12 at 20:20:16
 
Fireblade, sorry we crossed on our responses, so I responded before your last post.

Thanks Lon. That was where we read that Steve was working with MAC. I wonder if my MAC HC power cord is similar to the Decware one. They say it is 10 gauge plated copper. No matter, it works for my use and I don't have a Decware cable to compare.
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« Last Edit: 01/09/12 at 20:25:42 by will »  

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Pale Rider
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #13 - 01/09/12 at 20:33:27
 
Good info. One thing I like about the MAC power cord is they make a 5-footer. That is almost exactly what I need for my Oppo and my PerfectWave DAC, both of which sit at the top of my ZRACKS, while my PowerPlants sit at the bottom.

Shunyata's Venom is 1.5 meter, almost the same. Interestingly, they make an extension cord as well.
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will
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #14 - 01/09/12 at 21:02:44
 
I recall that MAC HC cable taking a long time to burnin. I even put it on the refrigerator for a week or so and then on my tower computer with and IEC adapter, and still......I wish these guys would cook them! If you get a Shunyata, pleas let us know your impressions!
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« Last Edit: 01/09/12 at 21:05:06 by will »  

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Lon
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #15 - 01/09/12 at 21:16:08
 
I think they are very similar will. The "Digital Pipe" one that I have is very similar looking. . . but sounds significantly different than the Decware ones on audio sources, and not in a good way. I tried it for months on cd players and Blu-ray players and finally settled on it on my bedroom TV. It does seem to make a positive difference on the image, and I don't use the TV's speakers much at all.
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« Last Edit: 01/09/12 at 21:27:00 by Lon »  

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will
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #16 - 01/09/12 at 21:27:23
 
Interesting. The Digital Pipe construction looks like it is #12 pure copper wire, but with "Plated pure copper mesh shielding - provides protection, looks & drains RF/EMI from your equipment."

With the better picture, it sounds like they met their objective for your TV anyway.

I think it is so interesting how most small companies come up with one to a few solutions they think really gets it, and most are pretty different in the subtle details of sound.

Then there is MAC who seems to cover the waterfront with materials and methodology making a lot of different sounding cables.
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Lon
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #17 - 01/09/12 at 21:43:13
 
Yes, it helped that TV image, but no more so than less expensive cables have, so I really wouldn't recommend it for TV use. Smiley

I think the Decware cables are excellent. I've also found that the top of the line PS Audio cables are even better, for my ears and tastes in my system, but they're ridiculously expensive. I've decided I am willing to pay the price for them if I can find them half price or less, and with patience and some seeking out I have. I recognize that this is possibly silly or extreme, but I really value the effect these have on the sound of my components. Which is not always a good thing as you know. This led me to improving my source as suddenly every source I had on hand was revealing its shortcomings and made me realize that the amazing Decware amp and speakers could do even more with a better source.
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Pale Rider
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #18 - 01/09/12 at 22:06:32
 
I may order a Shunyata Venom just to try it out, and the price is reasonable.

I noticed that the HCM site also has the AudioQuest GBR for speaker cables, and they look like a bargain. I am very happy with my ZenStyx, but in order to reach the back ERRs, I had to order a 20-foot pair, and those were just barely long enough. I got those at a discount, because I ordered them at the same time as one of my ERR pairs. But right now, those 20-foot ZenStyx would set me back a cool grand. While a 20-foot pair of the AQ GBR are $160 and a 30-foot pair are $210. I actually plan to buy a set, to have as backup in case anything happens to my Styx, but given how they are made........I doubt that will happen.

I have to echo something Lon said, and I say this as someone who picked up his PS Audio Statement power cords from him. Things like the power cords, or the Power Plants, or the in-wall receptacle replacements really do make a difference. And it is often expressed in the form of negative revelation about another component. I have seen many theories about why the last few feet of power matters, e.g., here. And Paul McGowan of PS Audio writes a lot on this topic, but getting to anything like "truth" here may well be nigh impossible. At least, for now. For me, it makes a difference.
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Fireblade
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #19 - 01/10/12 at 01:35:36
 
Lots of new information, thanks guys!

Just a relevant parenthesis: Have you guys seen this at all (it's just a subjective headphone sound comparison buy 1 guy over 22 power cords, of which I think only 2 or 3 are low priced.  Conclusion rankings are interesting.

Conclusion
Still with me?  To wrap this up, it’s time for me to rank order all of the cables under review. This rank ordering reflects performance in my system, based on my own biases and needs. It reflects performance on those components on which each cable fared best. It is not a straight listing of cables in order of the “Overall performance” rating I gave within the individual reviews. Those ratings are dependent on cost/value, flexibility and other factors, the final rank order is based on pure *sound* alone, all other factors be damned.

1. (Tie) Virtual Dynamics Nite II (on my source), Michael Wolff Bohica (on my headphone amp)
2.Black Sand Violet with stock ends.
3. Black Sand Silver
4. Split decision between the TG 688 (for my source), and the Wolff Source cord (for my headamp)
5. Black Sand Violet "Deluxe" (with Oyaide 046 ends)
6.Virtual Dynamics Reference (since replaced/superseded by the David)
7.(Tie) KAS Audio Primus (on my headamp) and Oyaide Tunami (on my source)
8.VH Audio Flavor 1 and Flavor 2
9.Custom Power Cord Company Model 14 Series 2
10.Tek Line Eclipse
11.Iron Lung Jellyfish / Volex 1760412. Straight Wire Blue Thunder
13.Audio Metallurgy Gold Alloy 9
14.Analysis Plus Oval 10
15.Absolute Power Cord
16.Zu Cable BoK
17.PS Audio XStream Plus


Here's the link to the main review (just skim over, as this is a long piece):

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/archive/index.php/t-81533.html

I may even consider the Jellyfish power cord now, given the soundstage and dynamics preference over tone, in my listenings.

I also read about Decware's own power cords been manufactured by MAC, and sharing same design philosophies with Steve.

The most difficult thing in this hobby is the unavoidable, expensive and never-ending trial-and-error process required just to choose the right element in the sound chain.  Worse still, that nth element change may disqualify the n-1th previously agreed upon, as there are always interactions and synergies involved.

Because the number of combinations possible are quite large, folks need to rely on some science and logic, and models and such, just to be able to make some sense out of this mess and limit the number of possible, combined alternatives to try (in this lifetime).

Patience, real savings and a lot of time in your hands are the only allies on the audiophile's side to enjoy, rather than suffer, this self-inflicted punishment.  But I guess the esporadic, randomly appearing sound synergies rewards are worth it.  The clue must be to make this journey as fun and at the same time as systematic as possible, to be able to achieve a really convergent path.

And we haven't even talked about tube rolling yet .. He He!









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Rivieraranch
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #20 - 01/10/12 at 02:30:52
 
The Volex came out solidly in the middle. Not bad for basically a ten buck cord.
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Fireblade
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #21 - 01/10/12 at 02:56:51
 
Absolutely, but if you read the reviewer's description and actually look at the individual scores for the sound-related criteria, the Jellyfish comes ahead, in my view.  Both are equivalent decent, better-than-stock power cables, indeed.  Only with different tradeoffs.  So, you were right when you made your point originally on the Volex.  Cheers ...
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #22 - 01/10/12 at 05:52:10
 
I can't help noticing the cable review is from 2006, a while ago in audio development.

I too figure you rule out a lot of issues with good advice. The trick is to get in with those you trust the ears of. This is part of what I like about Decware, DbAudiolLabs, Pi Audio, HerbiesAudioLab and the like....they are all made up of seasoned audio heads on deep quests themselves for the real sound on a reality budget, and have fleshed out reasonably priced quality. Well....relatively, for the world class sound we can get.

I have a bunch of power cables, all relatively reasonable, several DIY. They all have good quality parts and designs, and though I like certain things about each, I can say that by starting off with a certain level of quality, they all work together. None hurt anything else.

I like to do the research too. A fun part of the quest. And I find that some people's evaluations sound real to me, and some less so, but in this time with net shopping and the option to return a lot of stuff if it does not suit me, I feel pretty good buying quality, value stuff that sounds good from reviews, knowing I have an out if it doesn't work out. It always seems to work though with good research.

Science is of use, but all the people I tend to buy from use the science only as a basis to good sound and the gear is finally refined and finalized by listening. Lots of trial and error based on listening. I think this is where the reality sound comes from....what makes us feel right with the sound.  I am glad they work this way because my sound is eerily real thanks to them.
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« Last Edit: 01/10/12 at 06:34:04 by will »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #23 - 01/10/12 at 13:35:04
 
That's exactly right, Will, science and logic are helpful (necessary) to reduce the possibilities to a select number of promising, manageable alternatives.  From there, its a matter of testing/comparing and fine-tuning. That's what experts we trust are supposed to do.

I wish we could find more of the A:B Blind testing, instead of somewone's opinions though.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #24 - 01/10/12 at 13:51:18
 
Interesting to note that if you look at the entire thread after that cable review post you'll see others with conflicting experience with the same cables, skepticism that there's any science behind power cables, arguments about expectations of power cord use, etc. All over the map. Interesting how varied listeners are in this arena.

I found his impressions of the PS Audio xStream Plus cord to be different than the impressions I had of the one that I owned. I think our source material, systems, and tastes can be so different that these sort of cable shootouts are entertaining reading, but very hard to use as a tool for evaluating how cords will perform in your own system, more's the pity.

Here's an easier to read version of the thread:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=81533
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #25 - 01/10/12 at 14:02:50
 
Lon, that link is missing 4 of the original participants, listing only until No. 16.  Among the missing (Nos. 17, 18 19 & 20) are a couple of top performers.  The descriptions missing will give you the reviewer's reasons for his grading, so I think that missing material is important.

In any case, that's just a guy's opinion.  More 'Blind Testing' please!
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #26 - 01/10/12 at 14:10:33
 
It's all there in the thread. It's the same thread as you linked to, just different format (archived vs. active).

One important qualifier for this review is he's using a cord to a headphone amp mostly. A high current amp for speakers may perform very differently.

will's post about the age of the thread is also worth noting. PS Audio's entire cable line is radically different now than it was before, all the way down the line from metal used (the POCC they use now is really refined metal!) to shielding, wire size and shape and configuration. Probably true of the offerings of other of the reviewed cables as well.


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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #27 - 01/10/12 at 15:22:34
 
will, I just won a pair of MAC Ultra Silver + on that auction site (luckily my only competition Greg dropped out!) Smiley and I can compare these to the Decware when received. Will be interesting.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #28 - 01/10/12 at 15:49:57
 
Apparently they archived the article incomplete.  Even the title says 15 power cords (instead of 22), and somewhere else talks about 16.  Still, four participants are missing in this archive copy (check it out), although the conclusions are the same.  

Congrats on the MCA auction!
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #29 - 01/10/12 at 15:59:51
 
Lon wrote:
Quote:
will, I just won a pair of MAC Ultra Silver + on that auction site (luckily my only competition Greg dropped out!)  and I can compare these to the Decware when received. Will be interesting.


Congrats Lon! Glad you picked those up. Let us know how they sound.  Because I needed another power cord or two—well, sort of, "need" being an interesting and relative term—I picked up the MAC 5-foot HC power cord. I also ordered the Shunyata Venom to have as a backup, while I wait to discover one or two of those PerfectWave AC10/12 deals that Lon found.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #30 - 01/10/12 at 16:10:30
 
Great Lon. I hope they give you the refinement over the Decware I got! As usual, they take time. I look forward to your impression of them!

Greg,

I seem to recall that HC being a looooong burnin. Have you got a IEC adapter? Awesome tool for a less painful burn in. Let the refrigerator or something do the hard part!
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #31 - 01/10/12 at 16:11:20
 
I don't know FB, the title of both threads say "16" when I open them and I'm not going to waste time comparing them but there seems no difference to me, and it certainly doesn't change my impression or opinion of this "shoot out."

Anyway, it's easy to get a better power cord than stock, and there are many choices to fit many budgets. Then there's the whole issue of whether a power cord offers the same sonics when used in tandem with or without a power conditioner or isolation transformer etc., when using with a source or amplifier or different sizes and topologies of amplifiers, etc. A mine-field best evaluated in person.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #32 - 01/10/12 at 16:20:46
 
I agree, power and all the little EMI, RFI grunge is a huge area of importance! What comes in effects everything!
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« Last Edit: 01/10/12 at 16:21:20 by will »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #33 - 01/10/12 at 18:52:24
 
Will wrote:
Quote:
Great Lon. I hope they give you the refinement over the Decware I got! As usual, they take time. I look forward to your impression of them!

Greg,

I seem to recall that HC being a looooong burnin. Have you got a IEC adapter? Awesome tool for a less painful burn in. Let the refrigerator or something do the hard part!


Don't know that I do Will. I think I do, but I am not positive. Will check, and if not, will rectify.  Thanks for the suggestion.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #34 - 01/27/12 at 16:10:14
 
Well, my MAC "UltraSilver" interconnects arrived.

Very well-made items, with impressive connectors. So far I'm impressed, though they haven't embarrassed the Decware Silver Reference yet, but I know that it's unfair to expect them to be "all they can be" yet.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #35 - 01/27/12 at 16:37:20
 
Lon, I don't expect they will embarrass the excellent Decware ICs, but I hope the Ultra Silver will give you the added refinement they gave me. I can't recall the breakin for those, but it was a while. Maybe a month or so. Lately, I have been running new cables and caps in my workshop system 24/7 changing the CD at least daily for a week or 10 days. Don't you wish wire makers would burn them in? Actually, Reality cable does!
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #36 - 01/27/12 at 16:59:29
 
Oh yes, I don't really expect them to embarrass the Decware, just funnin'. They've a different "view". . . we'll see how they turn out in a month. Enjoying the difference and they're a quality product.

We'd definitely not want to pay the manufacturers in general for burning in the wire! Would probably cost a LOT! Smiley
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #37 - 01/28/12 at 14:54:23
 
Lon announced:
Quote:
Well, my MAC "UltraSilver" interconnects arrived.

Very well-made items, with impressive connectors. So far I'm impressed, though they haven't embarrassed the Decware Silver Reference yet, but I know that it's unfair to expect them to be "all they can be" yet.


Looking forward to your assessments Lon. The first pair I bought, used on AudiogoN, is quite nice. I agree they seem well made.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #38 - 01/28/12 at 18:42:31
 
So far I'm definitely impressed, the tonal balance is nice and there's a tad more body to the sound that is nice to have. I expect them to go through a few shifts for a few weeks.

For 71 dollars total, a real bargain.

My listening impressions are a bit skewed as I experimented with different footers under my speakers. A month or so ago I went from using nothing under them (just sitting on the carpet--I still haven't received stock spikes or grilles) to using the Herbie's Audio Lab "Little Fat Gliders." Reading about Barry Diament's isolation theories I tried using the clear acrylic balls for Herbie's Audio Lab "IsoCups" sitting inside 2" automotive freeze plugs, to sort of make a version of Diament's "Hip Joints." Though a pain to set up, this has been a fun experiment. The midrange has been freed of some congestion I didn't know that I had and overall the dynamics have been a bit more showcased as well. Luckily the speaker height hasn't been raised too high, that makes a big difference to me in my room and with my ears.

IN a week or so I'll put the Decware Silver Reference ICs back in and compare the sound to the MAC ICs.

If these continue to impress me I may consider one of the top of the line MAC ICs in time. I only have one analog IC in my system. . . .
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« Last Edit: 01/28/12 at 18:47:05 by Lon »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #39 - 01/28/12 at 19:25:27
 
It has been a while, but I think what happened with mine is that they just kept getting better at all of what they do. I don't recall ups and downs...just steady improvements.
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« Last Edit: 01/28/12 at 19:30:05 by will »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #40 - 01/28/12 at 19:28:02
 
Thanks will.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #41 - 01/28/12 at 19:47:14
 
Another thought on MAC.

My braided silver IC from MAC is a very nice cable too, but very different. I doubt you would like it Lon. Very open and articulate. Excellent in my case for the ZDAC/ZSTAGE connection, but this got me thinking.

The MAC Digital Pipe power cord you did not like the sound of, and the MAC HC power cord I thought was fine, and possibly similar to the Decware cable. They apparently play around a lot with different objectives and solutions. Poses the question: would both their high end ICs suit us, or would one have a preferable flavor over the other??? The latter seems likely.

That is if one decided to go there!

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #42 - 01/28/12 at 20:49:50
 
That's definitely a good question. If I decided to try one I'd contact Steve Halick and seek his advice. I've been reading reviews on the 'net and have some ideas what questions to ask and I think he would be helpful.

Makes sense that a very open and articulate cable would work well with th ZDAC. In my system that DAC was on the considerably warm and rich side and such a cable would be a nice balance.

It's likely quite a ways down the line but seems something worth exploring as a vital link that could be addressed.
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« Last Edit: 01/28/12 at 20:51:18 by Lon »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #43 - 01/29/12 at 01:32:17
 
Quote:
It's likely quite a ways down the line but seems something worth exploring as a vital link that could be addressed.


Yes, interesting idea to be sure. I will be interested to follow this track if it happens.

I mentioned the MAC auctions and the UltraSilver IC earlier since the topic was "cost-effective" ICs and in that context the MAC auctions are easy. Relative to be sure though as we all know. What is cost effective?

Now that we are talking of climbing the MAC ladder, I would be remiss not to mention Reality Cables ... realitycables.com

At 250, a different sort of bargain, but a bargain none-the-less. Also, partially burned in and with a return possibility! I got onto these from Eric Hider, the Tranquility DAC guy who I really trust the ears and mind of. As I understand it, he was part of a group of serious audio heads who worked with the Reality guys to figure out the most "not there" cable. They would send out ICs, get comments, implement refinements, and out they would go again. And it seems they did this for a long time before arriving at just the right wire, twists, RCAs etc.

Well, I use these as my main ICs Tranquility to Torii, and they are amazing. I just did some direct comparisons to the MAC UltraSliver, and both have nice qualities, but I would say the Reality does everything more transparently...more body, depth, dynamics, micro dynamics, micro detail, texture...

I had one pair in each Torii input, left the volume the same for each test tune, and switched cables on the Tranquility. The Reality actually sounded louder they were so much less restricted.

Not that the MACs didn't sound great, and could be a valid choice, but by comparison, to me the Reality is another level of pure sound flow.

Wink

Of course, my system, source etc.....
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« Last Edit: 01/29/12 at 01:34:57 by will »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #44 - 01/29/12 at 03:15:27
 
Definitely worth looking into, thanks.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #45 - 01/29/12 at 15:51:40
 
Actually, I found it interesting the comment about the perceived loudness of the Reality cable, as I had the impression of perceived more quietness when now using the MAC Ulatrasilver when switching from the Decware cable. That said, the Ultrasilver sounds very good to me.

I looked at the Reality site and there's very little real information (which is generally a turn-off) and an aura of mystery seems to surround the structure and materials of the cable. But reading reviews they're highly-regarded and I am interested. If I were to buy one, it would make sense for me to buy ones with XLR to RCA and thus I could utilize the balanced out on the PWD to feed the other input on the Torii, and cable comparisons to cables with RCA connectors on both ends would be very easy, I could just toggle between inputs. I don't envision using the second Torii input for any other purpose, and I could always re-purpose it if needed. Thanks for the website suggestion.

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #46 - 01/29/12 at 18:47:19
 
Yes the proprietary info stuff can be off putting. But I guess it is understandable. After loads of research, when you arrive at something amazing and want to benefit from you efforts, while still having the stuff be inexpensive....well.... Even MAC, or the big dogs rarely say the specific wire, twists, solder etc they chose...They just don't tell us they are not telling us!

And the basic story is there. Lots of experimentation and listening. Best copper they could find for sound, vampire, best assembly/construction they could find for music, all cryo'd, all burnt in, 20 day return. To me the 20 days is a clincher. If they stand behind their stuff without restrictions, this is a very good sign.

By the way, it sounds like standard IC lengths are returnable straight up so presumably the balanced to RCA are?

I guess part of it is that the little guys are audio heads themselves on a budget, and are trying to make really good stuff inexpensively. Then they may not be so focused on marketing tools and don't want to raise the price by hiring marketers to do it just right?
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #47 - 01/29/12 at 18:57:17
 
Oh I know, it's not that unusual and it's understandable due to their business model. I just like to see more information when I am making these sort of searches.

I've gotten so used to the "sound of silver" in the last years that buying copper ICs seems odd. Wink I'm nowhere near ready to buy a pair but it's fun dot do the research and think about.

Greg, yeah XLO . . . very good reputation too. I'm thinking it's fun to try out these "maverick" independent guys though. and as we know the magic can definitely happen in their midst!
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #48 - 01/30/12 at 06:35:31
 
I am always happy to check out someone with a value approach, so I may try the Reality at some point. "Proprietary" this and "secret" that can contribute to suspicion, but it's all in the sound either way.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #49 - 02/02/12 at 22:13:13
 
You're right Greg, it's all in the sound. I did end up ordering an XLR to RCA cable from Reality Cables.

I swapped out the MAC and the Decware cables today for a few hours. I like both these cables, a lot. I think the Decware is just a hair more dynamic (at least at this point in the MAC's state of being) and the sound stage is just a hair wider and larger. But the tonal balance is a hair "better" (more to my liking) with the MAC cables at the moment. Just a bit "mellower", perhaps "refined" as you've expressed will. An interesting comparison.

Also very interesting is the "footer" set-up I've had for the ERRs for some days now. The freeze-plug / acrylic ball setup is a minor pain to utilize, and when you do finally get it setup you sure don't want to try another speaker position Smiley but I've really enjoyed the effect that the new configuration has on the sound. Hard to explain, but the sound is a bit more free of the speaker confines and the sound breathes a bit more: a bit more dynamic, a bit more open, a bit more vibrant. This was easy to hear with either interconnect. I guess in time I'll see if I can find an even better metal piece to use than the freeze plugs (perhaps a bit longer and a bit more shallow, but not any taller) and try that out.

And in about two weeks I should have the Reality Cable interconnect to try out. Some good fun ahead, some great times this last week.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #50 - 02/03/12 at 01:23:55
 
Lon, Sounds like you are having fun. I think the sound stage differences will likely disappear with the MACs in more time. Burned in, mine showed no apparent difference. I get more difference with different rectifiers! And I think that thing we are trying to describe about the cable...more solid maybe, plays into the soundstage, increasing saturation slightly.

When I compared the MG944s without and with spikes (5/8 h x 1/2 wide) I got very similar effects as you did with your footer rigs, but I would say more pronounced..more than "a bit", but this could just be semantics.

My HR-ONEs came with some honker spikes (1 h x 3/4 w) and since my floor is brick, their mass shows up clearly, and in a way I visually prefer less than the subtler MG ones. So I tried the spikes from the 944s. They sounded fine, but interestingly, going from the smaller spikes back to the larger on the HR-ONEs, and listening carefully for differences, the the shift from the smaller to bigger ones yielded similar results to your footers, subtle, but audible.

Got me, but the bigger spikes Bob chose stay!
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #51 - 02/03/12 at 01:38:56
 
I've tried a few spikes with my HR-1s and ERRs (not the ones from Bob because I don't think I received any) but they make the speakers too tall and I don't like where that places the tweeters, makes everything too bright for me in my room, at least the last time I tried them. So these footer assemblies work out better for me.

I guess the changes are more than "a little bit". . . I'm being cautious with my descriptions of my perceptions.

The engineer Barry Diament hypothesizes that the roller ball on the curved smooth surface moves and transfers the vibrations from the speaker. This is isolation, not coupling. It has a different effect than spikes, and I like it. My speakers are on carpet over suspended hardwood floor, from my experience a different scenario from brick or concrete.

Anyway, for about 20 bucks a nice experiment that's working out. I like the effect better than the Herbie's Audio Lab Little Fat Gliders I was using.
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« Last Edit: 02/03/12 at 01:56:05 by Lon »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #52 - 02/03/12 at 14:41:47
 
Lon, maybe I missed your description of the experiment elsewhere or earlier in this thread, but tell more.

I know Barry from Soundkeeper Recordings and BDA. By the way, I highly recommend their recordings to folks. Very, very good stuff, especially the hi-res files versions.
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« Last Edit: 02/04/12 at 03:58:55 by Pale Rider »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #53 - 02/03/12 at 15:15:07
 
Right, Barry's studio is very well laid-out with attention to signal noise, isolation, power quality, etc. He pays attention to detail and he's not "hide-bound" by any rules other than what his ears seem to tell him.

I have read of Barry's "hip joint" isolation devices for years and my main problem with them is that he always anchors a smooth concave metal surface to a wood block base, and that combination raises the speaker height which for my seating position(s) and the tweeter height of my speakers doesn't work out well. So I got to thinking that with the sort of "compressability" of the surface of my carpet the steel concave piece will be well anchored by the weight of the speaker. Barry uses 1/2" to 1" steel ball bearings in his design, but I know how neutral in signature the acrylic balls that Steve Herbelin used to use in his IsoCups are, and I had eight of those handy, so I thought I could use those. So I bought a dozen automobile engine freeze plugs, they have a polished smooth concave surface, and just put those down on the carpet near the corners of the speaker and put the acrylic balls in the center, and placed the speaker on these. It takes some time and a bit of frustrating energy to find the best balancing position for the set-up, and to get both speakers toed-in (or not) and properly positioned, etc. so you want to sort of get it right quickly and not mess with it.

Barry's assertion is that the speaker's vibrational energy is absorbed by the ball moving even the tiniest amount within the concave smooth surface of the bottom piece. There is a very expensive highly machined bit of audio bling like these that you can purchase but this is a twenty dollar tweak, much more affordable. I think the reasoning is sound (sort of like the Aurios ball bearing footers or other bearing and cup footers, and the IsoCups, though within those the ball really can't move unless large force is applied). Barry thinks that isolation such as this is better than coupling speakers.

Anyway, I had interesting results with just the acrylic balls on the carpet when I first got the speakers but I decided that some sort of tonal linearity was lost and just had the speakers flat on the carpet. With this set up, adding the freeze plugs seems to allow the balls to move freely enough, and the change in sound seemed more linear. I'm not sure I have the speakers exactly where they are at their best with this set-up, and will probably play with location over time. But I like what I hear, and I would say the biggest changes are a sweetening of the treble and a bit more soundstage imaging detail (though I am not sure that is anything more than subtle). Fun to play with, I really enjoy isolation components and their effect on my system. A friend thinks that it is because of my pier-on-beam foundation old creaky house that these things seem to make a difference, but he hears it too and we both find less of a change using these in his concrete slab apartment. Anyway, this is something to keep the boredom away! In time maybe I'll think of or stumble upon a bottom piece that works better in this set-up, or try smaller steel bearings. . . I think the steepness of the curve of the freeze plugs may be limiting the movement of the balls (?)
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« Last Edit: 02/03/12 at 15:15:41 by Lon »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #54 - 02/03/12 at 19:17:36
 
Interesting. I also have some spare "lamp black balls" that I bought from Herbie's, that I could use in such an experiment. In looking around, I have found a snootful of freeze plugs, of all sorts, sizes, and material (a sampling here). Did you find a size that worked well?

I have ERRs on both carpet and hardwood, so it could be interesting to try this experiment.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #55 - 02/03/12 at 19:37:53
 
I bought mine from amazon, I got a 1 and 5/8" diameter package of ten. Bigger might be better, but then the "bowl" would be deeper and I think shallower is better than deeper.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001B4JW0I/ref=oh_o05_s00_i00_details

Often concave drawer pulls are used in these hip-joints, and those are longer and shallower. They may be best if I can use them without bases and keep the profile low that would be worth checking out.

I bet that the lampblack balls will work well. I was going to try those but only have six not in use with other components, and I quickly determined three under a speaker is even more difficult to set up than four! And now Herbie's Audio Lab is using yet another form of ball. There's llots of room for experimentation as far as that goes.  I did use split brass ones (two halves with a foam insert in the center and both halves resting on a synthetic gemstone) from Herbie's that I bought years ago and let's just say they don't work well in this application. Which is a shame as they were very expensive, and they don't work well for me under components either! Smiley
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« Last Edit: 02/03/12 at 20:29:40 by Lon »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #56 - 02/15/12 at 23:20:10
 
Received my Reality Cables ICs today. Very well made attractive cables. I have them going from my XLR outputs of my PS Audio PerfectWave DAC into one input of my Torii. In the other input I have my pair of MAC Ultrasilver ICs. I can toggle back and forth between the two inputs and compare the same material from the DAC on the different cables.

Just a few hours in I have to say the Reality Cables are very nice. Interesting differences between them. The Reality fill the sound stage and seem "bigger." They also seem warmer. But switching back to the MAC neither is really that simply true. The MAC are a bit crisper (perhaps a bit more traditional "detail") and though both are equally dynamic there's occasionally a more "marked" contrast in dynamics with the MAC, as if a sound were exploding out of a darker silence. The MACs also seem to have a bit more depth, while the Reality a bit more width. Both are excellent choices and source material may be the ultimate arbiter on which I prefer on any given moment. (And being able to flick a toggle switch between the two sets of cables is cool). Still, the Reality ICs are just out of the shipping box. I expect a little change, though they've been very well "cooked" before getting here.

I was curious because will was so fond of these cables and I have to thank him again for mentioning them, I think I'm going to really enjoy the sound.

In a way I have a sense that the sound difference is similar to the DAC's output straight into the amp compared to the DAC's output into my CSP2 and from there to the amp. Not a profound difference, and I've been happy either way. The MAC seems more like the DAC without the CSP2 in the loop. And it's interesting to have copper ICs back in the system as I'd been using silver for years, and taking copper ones on hand out pretty quickly when comparing. The Reality are not coming out quickly though. Time will tell, but I really doubt that the Reality cables will be sent back. Wink
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« Last Edit: 02/16/12 at 14:28:53 by Lon »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #57 - 02/22/12 at 15:21:54
 
It's been almost a week now that the current has been flowing through these cables nearly non-stop, at least 100 hours. About 36 hours ago the sound went through a very pleasant glowing change and then stabilized again. Very natural sound. Very quick sound. Slightly big sound.

I have to say I like these very much and they're a good match for the PWD's openness and the Torii's muscle and depth. In some ways I can clearly hear the "copper signature" in the way that I heard the "silver signature" in the Decware and MAC cables. I also seem to hear a character that I would say is related to the cryo'd tubes that I have used/am using, a quickness and a richness (which don't often come in combination in audio).

Anyway, I'm very happy with these cables and can safely recommend them to Decware system owners.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #58 - 02/22/12 at 17:27:44
 
Lon, are you referring to the Reality IC cables?  If so, how do they really compare in your setup with the Decware IC's?  Have you A-Bd them as you did with the MACs?  

I'm still on the hunt for a good, cost-effective pair of IC cables.  So far I see both MAC and Reality are acceptable choices given your valid assessments.  What about the Decware ICs?

Would you rank them, even if the differences may be just dependent on your particular setup, or maybe related to the XLR (i.e., balanced) vs RCA outputs from your dAC?

Thanks!
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« Last Edit: 02/22/12 at 17:37:57 by Fireblade »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #59 - 02/22/12 at 17:44:47
 
I have compared them to the Decware, a few days ago I put those in place of the MAC in my system.

I'd rate the MAC and Decware as really very very close, there is a tiny tonal difference which would lend themselves to being favored over one or the other by listener preferences on how they like to hear a tonal balance. I do prefer the Reality Cables to both, that's just my personal preference: they're a bit more neutral sounding (I feel in comparison the other two cables have a bit more energy in the upper mid and treble). It's not a huge difference, and I am using these in an XLR to RCA configuration, and the difference may be the same in an RCA to RCA or not. I don't know that at the moment.  I might buy an RCA to RCA cable in time. I need to make money though. I may be working at the Harley dealer I frequent next month though, I've had two successful interviews and should hear on Monday. I can then afford more audio goodies, and also sock some money into the bank for my high property taxes and travel to my family.

Bottom line: all three are very good cables for the money. I think right now I prefer the Reality Cables a bit.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #60 - 02/22/12 at 18:06:28
 
Got it, Lon, thanks for sharing that insight/valid information with us.  I'm about to order one of those three (checking my bank account at the moment, though!)

It should be interesting to work for the dealer of your ride!  I wish you luck in those endeavors.  I just came back from a nice ride on some backroads, nothing extreme.  Boy, I think while I'm healthy I will be riding my bike, so much so, as while I'm not deaf I will be playing my new audio setup.

Let's hope for the best ...

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #61 - 02/22/12 at 21:03:06
 
Fireblade, if you read above I made my assessments of all three cables and agree with Lon that the Reality is the best for me, but it does take some getting used to in AB comparisons since the copper has an apparently bigger, "warmer" character that can sound a  bit thick at first, but after getting over that first impression, they are big, fast and real. And even though they are "cooked" they take 50-100 hours to fully come out.

I agree the Decware and MACs are very similar, but in subtle views, I definitely prefer the MAC UltraSilvers in my system over Decware, the Decware exhibiting a slight fragility as opposed to more solidity and a very slightly warmer sound from the MACs. The cool thing about them is you can find them dirt cheap on audiogon auctions. I think mine were 60 or so delivered. The Decware ICs are very good though!

In fact, I have a 3' pair fully broken in I would sell if you want. Say 110 delivered?
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« Last Edit: 02/22/12 at 21:04:03 by will »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #62 - 02/23/12 at 15:08:59
 
Will, first of all I hope you continue on your successful healing process from that 'hernia repair.'  

Regarding your views on the Reality and Mac IC's, I had read your comments a while back, but was interested also in Lon's views. After all, this is quite a subjective evaluation.

Although I'm ready to get me one of the three choices, eventually, right now I'm not able to spend any more on audio gadgets, for a while.  I had to replace both tires on my bike and changed oil and filter also, so my play money has been spent for now (including recent ordering of the Ext HDD, USB Cables and USB Hub, along with some CD's.)

I also don't need a 3.28 foot length (1 meter), having my MS II + and laptop side by side to the amplifier (current and future), eliminating this way the extra length-derived capacitance involved.  Besides, you both got me thinking about MAC Ultra Silvers again.  In any case, I thank you for the offer and may get back to you if I change my mind.  Cheers!






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« Last Edit: 02/23/12 at 20:40:24 by Fireblade »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #63 - 02/23/12 at 16:44:29
 
I get the subjective thing for sure, but Lon and my responses were pretty damned close. I have a half meter pair too if you get interested.
Wink
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« Last Edit: 02/23/12 at 16:46:56 by will »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #64 - 02/23/12 at 17:04:01
 
Wow, how many pairs of cables have you tried/kept?

Very well, if you can hold on to them for a couple of weeks or so, I may be able to buy them from you given an agreed, reasonable price.  New ones are $129.00 plus shipping.

It is remarkable that both of you concurred, indeed.  Now, if the real difference is not that big among all three of them, and considering my setup being quite different from yours, I would probably be ok with the Decware IC's after all.

I only have one type of IC's here (two exactly equal pairs), so I definitely need another good alternative to see how good or bad the ones I have are.  Otherwise, I would be possibly missing on the best sound of the Decware gear.

I'm still months away from receiving my Decware gear and have it broken-in, so I'm in no rush, though.

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #65 - 02/23/12 at 17:15:09
 
I will hold onto them for you and if you want them, we will get to a good price and if not, that's cool. Just remind me if you end up wanting them.

I think you will find them very nice cables. I used them exclusively for quite a long time and loved what they brought to the sound. They are after all much better than their cost when comparing to most cables available.

As with all Decware stuff, you pay for it, but you get a remarkable deal for what you get!

Sorry for your long wait for your gear, and I look forward to your responses as you adapt them to your home and life!
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« Last Edit: 02/23/12 at 17:16:56 by will »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #66 - 02/23/12 at 17:39:27
 
I concur with will that the Decware cables are great cables and feel they are an amazing value. I had them in my main system for years and it really wasn't until I improved my sources considerably that I was even tempted to try others. And the way that wire and components work in synergy it doesn't surprise me for example that I actually think I prefer the Decware cables between my DEC 685 DVD changer and my CSP2 in my second system to the MAC Ultrasilver + in the same spot. For the price (especially the great price I know you'll receive from will) they're an exceptional value. They made me put away and forget interconnects I had bought before the Decware were offered from TARA Labs and PS Audio that listed for three times the price. I still have them, they're nice cables (and I think they're better for solid state than tube components) and I have a history with them and don't want to part with them, but the Decware are clearly superior any time I make a comparison with the Decware components.

There are many cable options, but in my experience you can trust the Decware interconnects, speaker wire and power cords to work very well with your Decware components.
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« Last Edit: 02/23/12 at 17:40:33 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #67 - 02/23/12 at 20:38:51
 
Ok will, let's do it.  You guys are the experts and, as always, I trust your assessments.  What you're saying also makes sense, so, will, I'm willing to hear your offer.  As I said, I'll probably be able to pull this through within a couple of weeks.

(Lon, thanks for putting a good word for me there! Wink )

BTW, I'm about to enter my 5th week on the Mini Torii/DM945's order pipeline, with another 7 more to go before shipment.  Then, there's the 5 weeks or so of surface shipment (by sea) and customs clearance ...    :- (

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« Last Edit: 02/24/12 at 10:40:26 by Fireblade »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #68 - 02/24/12 at 00:45:23
 
Fireblade, where are you? For some reason I thought you were in the States now. Sorry, I may have to change my free shipping offer! My bad.

Would 85 for the cables be comfortable for you, and we'll talk about shipping? As far as I can tell they are in brand new condition but with the benefit of being at least partially burned in. I used them as an IC between my ZDAC and ZSTAGE for a while, but it has been so long ago, I can't remember how long, so can't say how many hours are on them.

Wow, I feel bad it is so long until you get to really hear your stuff, but it sounds like you are having a lot of fun getting there!
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #69 - 02/24/12 at 06:06:19
 
Will,

If, per chance, Fireblade passes on the interconnects I am interested and would be pleased to take these off your hands.

Cheers,
brownazucar
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #70 - 02/24/12 at 10:38:38
 
I agree with the price, Will.  You can ship them to my importer's US warehouse in Florida, and we'll take it from there.  I would appreciate it if you'd hold on to them for a little while (2 weeks), but we have a sure deal.  I'll let you know when, so we can arrange the details.  Thanks for the offer!

(Sorry brownazucar!)
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« Last Edit: 02/24/12 at 10:46:20 by Fireblade »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #71 - 02/24/12 at 16:15:40
 
Yes sorry brownazucar. Fireblade, I can ship whenever  is best for you. No hurry. If you PM the FL zip, I can figure out Priority Mail costs. Shouldn't be much.
Wink
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #72 - 02/24/12 at 18:08:42
 
Done!  Please check your PM's.  Thanks!
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #73 - 02/24/12 at 19:07:01
 
Got it, and don't worry, they will be well protected. I made and shipped pottery for 35 years! Just let me know when you want them sent. Almost everything I buy now from tube and cable guys is sent Priority mail these days, so I will pack the cables and get a price.

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #74 - 02/24/12 at 19:16:45
 
Great!  I was under the impression you were offering the free shipping within the States, is that still on? Just checking ...
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #75 - 02/24/12 at 19:43:40
 
Fireblade, please see your PMs.

And sorry if I was not clear.

Sad

When I found out you were out of country, I priced the cables without shipping. Still I think it is a fair price as they are even better than brand new since they are partly broken in, and I paid shipping on top of the 129 when I bought them from Decware. Sorry if this "Would 85 for the cables be comfortable for you, and we'll talk about shipping?" was not clear from my earlier post.

But if I blew the English, as I definitely do at times, you are not obligated in the least to buy the cables.

Again, sorry for any confusion!

Will
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« Last Edit: 02/24/12 at 19:44:05 by will »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #76 - 02/24/12 at 21:18:58
 
I apologize for the confusion, Will.  I did not know you were assuming a foreign shipment and did not consider those costs in your pricing.  That's fine.  Thanks for clarifying the confusion.  The deal is still on, just let me know the shipping cost (Stateside) and I'll add it to the cable price.

Please check your PM's for some details.  Take care ...
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #77 - 02/25/12 at 17:05:45
 
For those interested there are new auctions for MAC interconnects: Velvet and UltraSilver + (and an HC power cord).

http://www.proaux.com/
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #78 - 04/18/12 at 23:36:14
 
Proaux auctions seemed to be out of commission for most of March, but they're back in action, and My Audio Cables is auctioning off two types of interconnects and the HC power cord. I have both the Ultra Silver Plus and the HC power cord, got them at these bargain prices and they're very well worth this kind of money. Very happy with them in my second system.

http://www.proaux.com/categories.php?parent_id=0
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« Last Edit: 04/18/12 at 23:36:30 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #79 - 05/18/12 at 13:29:17
 
I see this on the www.myaudiocables.com main page:

- SPECIAL SALES -
Email for info - myaudiocables@mac.com


3’ UltraSilver+ IC $59.
3’ Silver QUAD IC $79.
3’ HC PC $49.
Burly PC $249.


I would be tempted to try the Burly PC, but I've got great cords on all components now, and cords in the closet!
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #80 - 05/18/12 at 20:35:06
 
Currently the "HC" power cord I bought a month or so back is on my Warwick bass guitar combo amp. I was surprised at what that has resulted in, just an overall better sound from the combo amp.

It sounded great on my Torii Mk II, but I was able to put a PS Audio PerfectWave AC-10 on that which was an improvement.
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« Last Edit: 05/18/12 at 20:35:50 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #81 - 05/20/12 at 03:33:42
 
Thanks for the heads up Lon. I just ordered a set of UltraSilver ICs and CuQ speaker wire from Steve. They should be well broken-in by the time my Decware gear arrives.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #82 - 05/20/12 at 03:39:59
 
You're welcome. Was too good news to keep under wraps. Smiley Good plan: get them broken in before the Decware goods arrive!
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #83 - 05/20/12 at 14:41:53
 
These are true bargains. I have several MAC ICs, and a couple of HC power cords. While I prefer my Decware and PS Audio cords to the MAC cords, I find I like the MAC better than the Shunyata I have tried. On the IC side, as I said, these are real bargains. I had a combo of Decware and AudioQuest silver interconnects (from HCM Audio in lengths not offered by Decware, and very reasonably priced), but I have happily replaced them with MAC cables.

Regrets for being absent for so long. 2012 has been an, um, interesting year.
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Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #84 - 05/20/12 at 15:38:16
 
Glad to hear from you Greg! Hoping the rest is pleasantly serene!
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #85 - 05/20/12 at 17:16:28
 
Thanks Will. You and me both.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #86 - 05/20/12 at 20:47:39
 
That's the Man, right there.  Welcome back, Pale Rider, you were missed!
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #87 - 05/21/12 at 12:25:15
 
Thanks Fireblade; much appreciated. Good to be back.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #88 - 05/23/12 at 18:20:51
 
Please don't stay away from us so long! Smiley

I agree with your hierarchy on the power cords, my main system and bedroom system are all PS Audio cords of various types right now, with my main including all cords with "PCOCC" copper, which just floor me in how they sound.

I've one of my Decware cords in use on the TV in the bedroom. I'm amazed at the differences power cords make on monitors.

I put my MAC HC power cord on my Warwick bass guitar amp and it really shines there. . . wow, it makes everything just tighter and yet fuller. An unexpected surprise.

Due to its current special price, I decided to try a MAC Burly cord. Going to try it on the Torii, and probably see how it does between the wall and my PS Audio Power Plant Premier. I think it's likely a great cord, and if it works out in one of those spots, I'll bring my CSP2 back into the sytstem, because although I am divided as to whether the CSP2 in the chain is best for the PerfectWave duo, it does add some special magic to the SACD sound. I also was talked into trying the new Silver Quad ICs by Steve Hallick. If they're better than the UltraSilver they'll be great for the DEC 685 in my second system. And then I can use the Ultrasilver + with the Marantz Blu-ray in that system.

I've got too many ICs and PCs. Not a bad problem to have.
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« Last Edit: 05/23/12 at 18:21:53 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #89 - 06/15/12 at 00:10:19
 
My MAC Burly power cord and Silver Quad+ interconnects are due to ship tomorrow. Which is good because with the new vinyl wing of my system, some more cabling is welcome. And I love to experiment with cabling.

By the way, I asked Steve Halick what the "+" designation means in his cable naming, and this was his reply:

It's a more deluxe cable. Usually upgraded connectors and significantly finer wire.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #90 - 06/21/12 at 14:53:56
 
Well, my shipment from MAC is due today. Tuesday I got a used MAC Burly power cord I purchased from Audiogon  at a great price, broken in. . . stuck it on my Torii as it seems to be designed as an amplifier cord primarily. Stuck with it for 24 hours but it wasn't right for the Torii in the main system. Compared to the PS Audio PerfectWave AC-12 in place there, it was dark and dull. . . a very nice cord and I'd probably love it had I not heard the AC-12. The AC-12 has a magic I've just not heard in any other cord, even the AC-10. I've found enough used at decent prices (for them, about 40 to 45 percent list cost) to equip the Power Plant Premier, Torii, PS Audio Transport and DAC, my homemade preamp (which will soon be changed out for the CSP2 and then the CSP2+) and my Denon DCD-100--eventually I'll get more for my main system; I'm using PS Audio xStream Premier SC and PerfectWave AC-10s in the rest of the system now. Great cords. . . but the AC-12 just has a bit more excellence in them. The copper in these is available from only one machine in Japan. . . all I can think is that the hype about this special crystal copper must have some validity as that's the major difference between it and its predecessors from PS Audio which were great but not quite this good. Maybe that's just BS, but something about the cable is exceptional.

I know I've maybe gone mad and become one of those people Steve makes fun of with thick garden-hose power cords when in his opinion the Decware cord is good enough, but I've slowly built up to these over time and lots of listening and once I've discovered what they bring to the system I just enjoy having them. And the AC-12, unlike the MAC power cords and the Decware, sound great on all components I've tried; the MAC and Decware are more "particular." Some work better than others on a given component. I also use a MAC HC power cord on a Warwick bass guitar amp I have and a Decware cord on a Black Heart guitar amp I have as well. I was surprised at the difference these made there.

It's a slippery slope and I wouldn't suggest going this far into this unless you have a lot of money to burn (not many of us here do I know) and also have gotten the best source components you can. Once you accomplish that, the AC-12 is the icing on the cake. Should offer a lifetime of use with components as well.

So the Burly is now on the DEC685 in my second system and upped the ante there. The new one that is coming today will go on the Torii in the second system, and I'll shift around a few power cords back there. And I'll end up with two Decware cords for the closet and possibly for sale.

I'm looking forward to the Silver Quad + interconnects arriving today as well. . . The Ultra Silver + I purchased before have blossomed into a very good interconnect, currently in use between my PS Audio GCPH and my preamp. Steve Hallick says the Silver Quad + are even better, and at the special price now available worth trying out. I expect a long break in though; I'm going to place them in the second system as connections between my DEC685 and the PS Audio GCPH (earlier version) there and the Torii. The second system is going to be in a bit of a break in flux for s spell, but it seems to always be in a state of improvement. So glad the DEC685 is back in use, it really is a great source for cd and SACD in the second system.

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« Last Edit: 06/21/12 at 15:33:26 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #91 - 06/22/12 at 13:41:25
 
The continuing saga of Rocky Raccoon and his audio cables.

I got the Silver Quad + interconnects and new Burly power cord in yesterday. I hooked a pair of Silver Quad + between my phono preamp and preamp yesterday (replacing my pair of Ultra Silver +) and there was a very nice retrieval of ambiance and detail immediately but the tonal balance was too bright, as I expected from these brand new silver interconnects.

So I set them up between the DEC685 and the Torii Mk II in the bedroom system, and installed the new Burly in between the Duet and the Torii Mk II. Of course this sounded great, as this second system always does. The speakers are too close to the wall and to the listener to be good for really accurate critical listening, but for pure euphonic fun and dreamy wistful listening that system can't be beat. I'd like to put all the components as is into the main system room sometime just to hear how it is when optimally placed, but that's so much work I doubt it will get done! Anyway, my plan is to burn the Silver Quad + in for a week or so in the bedroom system and then move them out to the main system for another listen. They have great potential. In construction they remind me very much of the first "red" Decware interconnects, but with a tighter "braid" and thinner wire. Should sound very good when broken in, and at 99 dollars I think they'll be a bargain.

Now I sit here waiting for my repaired CSP2 to arrive via UPS! And looking forward to a rare public show of a duo composed of two of my friends tonight at an outdoor event, WD-41 at Kenny Dorham's Backyard.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Willie-Oteri-and-WD-41/150104544498
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #92 - 06/22/12 at 19:20:41
 
My CSP2 is back in the system, and sounding great. There was nothing wrong with it. I must have been using the wrong value for replacement fuse. I feel a little silly but there's nothing wrong with having the doctor do a check up! Didn't cost me a cent either. Steve does so much for us, it's really one of the biggest benefits of being a Decware owner!

Replaced the stopgap preamp I was using which is very nice, has great parts and a great build, just different than the CSP2. A bit more forward and detailed, while the CSP2 can be that way too, but also can be adjusted to be a bit more warm and dynamic as well. So more versatile and a bit more my style. Looking forward to the CSP2+ which I've wanted ever since it was introduced. . . Smiley
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #93 - 06/23/12 at 06:37:06
 
Congrats on the CSP2 being back in the system Lon. Glad to hear that nothing was wrong with it after all. This hobby of ours will certainly humble even the most grizzled veterans of it's wars, won't it. Just another way of letting us know to go slow and check on even the most obvious things. Looking forward to hearing what I did to screw up my Torii.

Question about the Burly. I'd like to try a different pc with the Torii. I've been using a Decware cord but with my configuration it was difficult for the female end to plug into the Torii and stay in. I'm hoping that didn't cause the failure that occurred but who knows? Anyway I'm now using Decware pc with my new Power Plant Premier. Everything sounds great so I'd rather leave it there and try something different with the Torii once it's back in the system. So in addition to your continuing thoughts on how it sounds I'd like to know how it fits into your Torii. Is it fairly flexible?

Thanks.
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« Last Edit: 06/23/12 at 06:37:43 by sberger »  
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #94 - 06/23/12 at 10:08:52
 
Sam, the Burly is only flexible at the two ends, the center portion is not very flexible. It can work, but it works best in a relative straight line.

Also, it has the same connector as the Decware cable for going in to the amp.

It will handle the Torii well and create good sound, but . . . the connector may cause you trouble if the Decware cord connector did.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #95 - 06/23/12 at 10:56:57
 
Ah ok then. Won't risk it. Thanks. The Torii sits on the top shelf of a 6 foot rack and the pc is coming straight up and then the end has to twist down. Wonder what cords would work better? Any thoughts welcome.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #96 - 06/23/12 at 11:11:42
 
The Burly may work then as it's six foot, and the first and last foot are very flexible. . . .But the connector is the same and may give you trouble. You could contact Steve Hallick of My Audio Cables; he has lots of upgraded connectors to choose from and would know which would work best.

As far as other cables, I would have to say in your situation you would have to have a 2 meter or so length of those I'd recommend as their flexibility isn't the best. I'd be on the lookout for a used PS Audio xStream Plus SC. The SC indicates that it has 'single crystal copper' which is in fact a real draw for this cable. (There was an earlier xStream Plus, without the SC, which is not as great a cable). I think this cable is very good for its used price, usually 200 or a bit less when available. One caveat: the ones from Hong Kong are more likely to be fakes than the real deal. At the moment I only see those from Hong Kong for sale. . . . This cable is stiff but flexible enough. Going up the scale from there, the xStream Statement SC and Premier SC are good choices, and the PerfectWave AC-10 and AC-12 are great choices. These are all not too flexible and may not work as well with your rack would need the 2 meter lengths, which may actually sound better, but are certainly a bigger expense. . . .

I've fallen in love with the "SC" and PerfectWave cables and what they do and really have no others to recommend. Others here probably have other experiences and recommendations.
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« Last Edit: 06/23/12 at 11:14:38 by Lon »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #97 - 06/23/12 at 11:21:46
 
Thanks Lon. I did contact Steve Hallick so we'll see what he says. For whatever reason I haven't had the same luck in the past with PSA cords as you. Mind you they were different varieties and it was few years back but think I would prefer something different. I've heard good things about the Burly in addition to your comments and his web site special would seem like a great opportunity to try it out. So hopefully I'll be able to.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #98 - 06/23/12 at 12:07:14
 
Cool. Again, in my opinion it's the "SC" cables (that use what PS Audio calls "PCOCC" copper) that I have had so much success with, really changed their cable line. (Earlier cables had a thicker, bassier sound with a nice midrange and treble; the SC line is much more neutral and open throughout all frequencies, and very dynamic). And I've found that power cable use in general has been different with the Power Plant Premier rather than without it, the PCOCC cables just sing with the Premier. The Burly is significantly different, without the "life" the others have. Very much like the Decware in my system. My main system has cables all containing PCOCC in it now, and as soon as I put a different cable in I hear the difference, and can't be comfortable with it.

Here's the hype from PS Audio about PCOCC (and yes, it's hype, but my ears tell me there's something at play here, just as Steve's hype has grounding!):

PCOCC is one of the more remarkable manmade metals in the world. It is formed as one single long grain or crystal that runs the entire length of the conductor. It is formed by a process known as The Ohno Continuous Casting Method where molten copper is forced out of the mold and very slowly draws the grain down the conductor's length, creating a 'single grain structure.'

There’s only one machine in the world that creates PCOCC single crystal copper, and that is one of the reasons it is nearly ten times more expensive than OFC. PS Audio has secured a scheduled allotment of the material.
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« Last Edit: 06/23/12 at 12:33:12 by Lon »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #99 - 06/23/12 at 12:21:26
 
Sberger,

Have you heard of Pi Audio? I would call or email Dave Elledge from http://www.piaudiogroup.com/ and see what he can do for you. The website is not developed, with much more info on the audiocircle forum, but don't be dissuaded due to this. It is a small operation making really good stuff.

I have used DIY cables with good connectors from VHaudio and Cryoparts, made up ones from Alan Maher, and myaudiocable HC, so not a great reference, but some decent cables.

Then I got a sample of Pi Audio Cable's cheaper cable made for the Tranquility DAC, and it really did sound better than the rest in that application. More fleshed out in every way. Then I tried PI's better cable on the Tranquiltiy, and it was better than the first. More inner detail, delicacy, body, and range.

It is clear from interacting with Dave at PI that he is a consummate explorer for the most transparent, yet complete sound, and very knowledgable. But also what  made me think of him, is his cables are flexible. He can custom build cables to your needs to boot though I don't know how he might deal with the trial period on this.

Edit: Oops, forgot to say the cables sound great pre-power and in the Torii also. Could be worth a trial period exploration.


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« Last Edit: 06/23/12 at 12:24:11 by will »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #100 - 06/23/12 at 12:25:58
 
sberger wrote on 06/23/12 at 06:37:06:
Congrats on the CSP2 being back in the system Lon. Glad to hear that nothing was wrong with it after all. This hobby of ours will certainly humble even the most grizzled veterans of it's wars, won't it. Just another way of letting us know to go slow and check on even the most obvious things. Looking forward to hearing what I did to screw up my Torii.



By the by, it sure is nice to have the CSP2 back. The ability to adjust the output gain is such a great feature to have.* I've been able to really dial it in for the phono preamp, and vinyl listening is now at a new level, I'm just loving listening to vinyl. And CDs, and SACDs, and TV and DVD and Blu-ray. I've spent a small fortune but don't regret it as I've sound that I can just sink into. As so much of my time is spent in these pastimes, it is a great benefit.

And I needed the humbling. I need to pay more attention. And maybe check out "audiophile fuses." Seems the next "crazy audiophile" step to check out. . . Smiley

*Looking forward to the CSP2+ and it's ability to adjust input gain. This way I can match the gain of the phono preamp and the SACD player. I find I prefer the PS Audio DAC output straight into the Torii, so with the CSP2+ I'll have a great set up for three sources.
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« Last Edit: 06/23/12 at 12:28:35 by Lon »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #101 - 06/23/12 at 14:29:33
 
Lon and Will thanks. Both make compelling suggestions. I have some thinking to do before shelling out more Lincolns. Will probably wait until I get the Torii back and let the v-caps settle in a bit before making any more changes.

Or not.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #102 - 06/23/12 at 14:38:29
 
I like the "or not." Smiley Every time I make a resolve I seem to fudge on it!

Good idea though, wait for the V Caps to settle a bit.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #103 - 06/23/12 at 15:06:08
 
Sounds like a good idea.

Do you think your cable fit issue to the Torii is mostly from downward pull, or more from lack of lateral tightness.

If lateral, it might be remedied by tightening the cable end fit using teflon plumbing tape wrapped around the narrow plastic part that slips into the Torii IEC. Keep adding wraps until snug. Or to relieve downward pressure, I would think that some sort of cable tie, secured at the right point down the cable to have a relaxed bend and so that you could attach it somehow to the back of a rack self could do a lot. Maybe some light screws into the shelf through a velcro cable wrap?

Even the right tape, like that heavy duty duct tape might work on its own, one end wrapped around the cable and the other taped to the top/back of a rack shelf???
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #104 - 06/23/12 at 16:11:31
 
Could be both. Steve from My Audio Cables also recommended your idea about using a tie around the rack. Will try that and your other idea when the Torii is back in action.

Thanks!
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #105 - 06/23/12 at 17:05:05
 
It has been a while, but I think I recall stabilizing the cable end with teflon tape seemed to do some vibration reduction with the benefit of sound improvement...
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #106 - 06/25/12 at 16:14:02
 
Sam, I took the older of the Burly cords out of the bedroom system as it's had some hours on it now and played around with it in the main system.

You're definitely going to have to secure the cable to the rack as there is more weight exerting downward force on this cable than on any other cable I've tried. There is four feet of surpreme, weighty stiffness bracketed at both ends with supreme flexibility.

I tried the cable between the wall and the Power Plant Premier, between the Premier and the Torii, and between the Premier and the Denon DCD-A100. Powering the Denon was where I liked it best. At the moment I'm using the Denon as my source for SACD and Redbook, and its DAC as my audio source for Blu-ray and DVR; I've my PS Audio PerfectWave DAC packed up and ready to go to FedEx for a return, I'm finally going for the upgrade to Mark II. I still prefer the AC-12 to the Burly in this spot, but by a smaller margin than in the other locations, and so I'm going to leave it there for a spell.

In comparison, the AC-12 imparts just a bit more of a warm, analog sound. The Burly seems to be a smidgeon quieter, and there's a tiny bit more "jump factor," and also a tiny bit more of an edge to the sound. That might subside. . . Seems to me every time I unplug a digital component it takes a full day to really come back 100 percent.
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« Last Edit: 06/25/12 at 16:21:19 by Lon »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #107 - 06/28/12 at 13:39:35
 
Sam, since you were interested in the Burly cord. . .

After a few days in several places in the main system I took them out. I  had them powering my Denon and CSP2 for a day, and I had them powering my Blu-ray player and my DVR for a day but wasn't happy.  Not that they're a bad cord at all, but I just couldn't live without the PS Audio xStream Premier SC or PS Audio PerfectWave AC-10 cords they were replacing. Those are clearly better cords in my system, and I missed them being there. They have an openness and clarity that the Burly lacks.  In comparison the Burly is darker and . . . dull. And for a monitor the PS Audio cords create a more vivid, richer image. I'm sure it would have been the cup of tea for me in an earlier version of my system when the sound was brighter and thinner (mainly due to improper power management)--but not now. Really the Burly reminds me of the MAC-manufactured Decware cord, though perhaps a bit richer and by that token a bit slower.

So. . . not as impressed with the two that I have as I thought I would be darn it. But they'll work well in the second system.
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« Last Edit: 06/28/12 at 13:46:45 by Lon »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #108 - 06/28/12 at 15:01:14
 
Lon interesting. Thanks. Looks like I have some thinking to do. I'm actually leaning on just going back to my Decware cord ( assume Steve voices his amps with it) until I get a good basic grasp of the v-caps effect. Once I put some mileage on them I will probably revisit the pc issue and hopefully have some good used options.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #109 - 06/28/12 at 15:34:11
 
Yes, I'm eager to hear your impressions of the Torii on its return, and with the PP Premier now in the system. Smiley
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #110 - 06/28/12 at 16:34:57
 
I'm eager to hear it myself. Any idea how long repairs normally take? Your CSP2 got fixed pretty quickly, right? Somewhere I read that repairs take priority at  Decware. Hope so. Enjoying having my Fisher 500C back in the rig but really looking forward to having the Torii back.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #111 - 06/28/12 at 17:12:53
 
Yes, my CSP2 was repaired quite quickly, although it didn't need repair. Smiley It was tested for 72 hours and sent back so my best guess is it spent five days or less there. So priority is given to repairs as we've read.

(I discover why I thought mine was damaged and sent it off. When I blew a few fuses I put my last fuse in, and it powered up the input tubes but not the rectifier and I thought something was wrong. Well I didn't check, and that rectifier was dead. So if I'd put in another rectifier I would have been up and rolling, and I should have, not sure why I didn't. It was a rectifier that had just arrived in a batch of three, cheap, off ebay. I might have fried it, or it might have been dead. I'm always living and learning).

So here's hoping yours is back SOON.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #112 - 06/28/12 at 17:48:46
 
Your description is quite similar to my problem but I think mine might be more serious. I got a nasty hum in the right channel with or without tubes, and could smell a faint odor which in my world is never a good thing. So we will see. But in the end run it will work out for the best as it will get a once over, the warranty will be switched to my name and it'll have the upgrade. So a win win.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #113 - 06/28/12 at 18:01:01
 
Yes, I think  you did the right thing considering all the possibilities! And to be upgraded, and have the warranty in your name. . . good things to get accomplished.

Hopefully you'll have this back within a week or so.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #114 - 07/05/12 at 15:24:01
 
I've several hundred hours plus on the Silver Quad + interconnects that I have received from My Audio Cables, and I moved a pair from the second system and over to the main system, using them in place of a pair of cryoset.com cables between the phono preamp and the CSP2.

They now sound very good (and had been sounding very good between the DEC685 and the Torii Mk II in the second system). They are a bit 'faster' sounding than the MAC Ultra-Silver + cables that they otherwise resemble quite closely. These are cables for lovers of detail, there are plenty of nuances you'll hear with these and a good sense of dynamics as well. A "sunny" sound, not a bright one, that silver sound.

In comparison the cryoset.com cables have almost all of these qualities AND an enhanced sense of weight and solidity. It's just on the fuller side of a subtle difference, a significant one for those whose system may need that bit of heft or warmth. There's also audibly a smidgeon more depth to the cyroset.com cable sound. I prefer the cryoset.com cables for most material, but I could easily be happy with these in this position. The cryoset.com cables cost three times as much. So having them already, I'll definitely use them. But at the bargain prices that one can get the Silver Quad + and the Ultra-Silver +, these are good choices and a bargain at those prices.

Both of the MAC cables work very well in my second system, where speaker placement thickens the sound somewhat, and the sunny character is a benefit.
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« Last Edit: 07/05/12 at 15:28:54 by Lon »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #115 - 07/05/12 at 16:26:47
 
Thanks for sharing. I am currently breaking in a set of UltraSilver+ ICs and CuQ SCs and like what I am hearing so far. My Torii should arrive in the next week, so I'm very interest to hear how they sound with my new toy. Also, it appears as if the MAC website is down. I contacted Steve, but haven't heard back yet.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #116 - 07/05/12 at 16:32:06
 
I noticed the website is down as well; hope they can get it back up (seems a whole group is down) as they're losing money! Sad

Glad you're enjoying breaking in the new cables. . . i bet that they'll really shine with the Torii!
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« Last Edit: 07/05/12 at 16:34:54 by Lon »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #117 - 07/11/12 at 14:58:57
 
My Audio Cables website is back online:

http://www.myaudiocables.com/

Silver Quad + are up ten bucks.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #118 - 07/12/12 at 16:55:09
 
I really want to like the Burly cords more, and believe what Steve Halick and a few others say about them. After even more time seasoning in in the second system I tried them again in the main system.

And they did sound improved. They did sound improved in dynamics, and seem the equal to the AC-10 and AC-12 in that respect on a lot of material. And it's just possible that there's a bit more "black," that the cords may make the background slightly more black and quiet, but the flipside of that is there is more grain and a looser bass than the AC-10 and AC-12 bring to the system. So despite the improved sound and the strengths of these cables, I put them back in the bedroom system. The Burly worked best between the PS Audio Soloist (Ethereal version) wall outlet and the PS Audio Power Plant Premier, but even then there was that hint of grain and a lack of ease to listen to that the AC-12 brings in that spot.

Ah well, they'll stay put in the bedroom system now. In that system they are each feeding a PS Aduio Duet from the wall, and a PS Audio xStream Statement cord feeds the Torii Mk II from one (analog component) Duet, and the DEC685 from the other (digital component) Duet. On the analog leg the PS Audio GCPH is fed by a PS Audio xStream Plus SC, the preamp by a My Audio Cables HC, the turntable by its captive cord, and on the digital side the TV is connected with a Decware cord.

Guess I can stop spending money on power cords for a while. Smiley
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« Last Edit: 07/12/12 at 17:16:44 by Lon »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #119 - 07/27/12 at 00:08:12
 
Hi Lon..  

I’m a noob to Decware and this forum, but a long-time audiofool.  I was perusing the forum looking for a Decware amp to buy to avoid the 12+ week wait (and having very little luck so far I might add) and somehow following links ended up here.  I couldn’t help but notice your praise for PS Audio SC and PW-AC pwr cords - +1, +2, +3 from me on this topic!   Smiley  There are none better IMO or experience.  And they got me off the pwr cord merry-go-round several years ago.  As with most “cables”, of any kind, “the connectors” are the most important component.  Yes… super-sonic-space-modulated metallurgy of the wire is important too, but the connector is where the rubber-meets-the-road.  PS pwr cords have heavy, solid, machined prongs.  I have yet to find any other brand, no matter the price, that has a connector even remotely in the same league as the PSA’s.  Pick your flavor, Wattgate, Oyaide.. etc.  they all have “stamped” prongs with “holes” in them – I don’t care what they’re plated with, they are a fraction of the PSA’s mass.  The designer cable may have 7 gauge, hyper-litz, spiraled, foamed Teflon insulation, continuous cast copper wire, but its all terminated at the ends to a micro fine plating of somekind, light gauge piece of “stamped” brass for prongs – think about it!.  In my experience, the PW-AC 12, like you praise, is about the equivalent of putting a good power conditioner or isolation transformer at you’re A/C source – the improvement is not subtle.  And I am talking "improvement" here - not just "different".  More rez, more micro and macro dynamics, blah, blah, blah - better - more like live music.  I too use the PSA PP Premier – takes the performance of every system I’ve ever tried it in (all mine and my audio buds systems), up several notches… but I digress – this an I/C topic… so on to that topic.

At the outset, let me state, that I am not an electrical engineer.  But I have good, close friends that are and I have read every technical white paper I can find on the principals and theory of the “transmission of analog audio frequencies over wire” that I could find.  The “ability” of a given piece of wire and its “connectors” to “accurately” transmit an analog frequency can be measured.  And subsequently the design of a cable and its connectors can be engineered to “effect” the signal passing thru them in a predetermined manner or to be “accurate”.  I won’t get into the electrical properties involved here as that would be a whole nother egg to fry.  However, as we all know, one may or may not “like” what the cable does to the sound in a particular system, but accuracy in the transmission of a given source signal can be attained.  But it involves knowing the output impedance of the source, and the input impedance of the target and engineering the interface(the cable) to match their electrical characteristics.  And thus those of us on the quest for the Holy Grail will never get there, because it is impossible for us to try every conceivable combination of source component, cable and downstream device possible until we get to that infinitely far away goal of perfection – the actual live performance in our listening spaces.  Once I finally realized this, I altered my quest to seek out “accuracy” as that is more feasibly obtained and choose components accordingly.  I have been chasing this carrot-on-a-stick goal for about 30 years.  I have owned more brands of cable than I can even enumerate.  But just to toss my 2-cents into this ring… I have found two brands of interconnects that, once again, got me off the interconnect merry-go-round; those designed and used to be sold by John Dunlavy of Dunlavy speaker fame, and Goertz/Alpha-Core.  Neither of these require 2nd mortgages and can be bought quite inexpensively used.  You may not “like” them in your system, but I have found them to be very neutral, “accurate” and revealing.  Dunlavy even included the testing measurements of his cables with each specific pair sold.  If you run across some – give’em a try.  The Goertz can be had in solid copper or solid silver forms.  I own both and they do allow for some tuning as they do sound different.  The Dunlavy’s only come in one flavor, as John designed for “accuracy” – period – end of story.  Dunlavy is long out of biz and John has passed on, so these would only be found used.  Goertz is still alive and well, but not generally well known.  Audiophile cables are a side-line of their main biz – transformer design and manufacture, so they do know what they’re doing..!!!

Now.. having said all that.  Since I have discovered "Decware".  I have been reading all of Steve's papers and poking around on this forum and have talked to Steve at length about his amps and what I'm seeking.  And beginning to learn what Decware is all about, I've got a pretty good hunch that Decware's cables are probably designed pretty well and are intentionally engineered to fall into the "accurate" electrical signal transmission camp and not in the "tone control" camp.  If I ever manage to purchase a Decware amp, I absolutely intend to try Decware cables too - why wouldn't you - it's almost a no brainer!   Wink
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #120 - 07/27/12 at 01:03:50
 
Hi maddog07,

Thanks for weighing in on this thread! I'm glad that I'm not alone in really reveling in the PS Audio cables. I agree that the connector mass and the way the rest of the plug is constructed are a big part of the reason why these are so special. I firmly believe that the nature of the wire and the different size and shape configuration must play a part as well. I just love the AC-12. I ultimately want three more, so that my whole main system is powered by them. In time I'll have them.

As for interconnects, I don't think I really want "accuracy." I have far too many recordings that just sound bad. Either too much high frequency energy or too thin. Out of the 20,000 cds and lps I have I'd say 19,000 or more are far from "audiophile quality." I think your instincts are right and the Decware cabling is designed for accuracy. . . and they are too accurate for comfortable listening to much of my collection. I've found that the cables from cryoset.com work best for me, and I don't think they're accurate, but what they add or subtract seems to be just right for the material I listen to. I will add that the most recent interconnects I've tried, the My Audio Cables (MAC) "Silver Quad+", are beginning to work wonderfully as the connection between my phono preamp and preamp (after a long breakin). These are perhaps more accurate, I'm not sure yet. I'll keep an eye towards the two that you mention, I certainly wouldn't discount your experience in this realm.

My goal with interconnects is to get a sound that makes most of my listening material sound involving and take me away from the "hifi" experience and into real communing with music, if that makes sense and is even possible. Like you I've been doing this a long time. I think that getting the power "right" (which we've done with PS Audio components and cables) is an important first step, gets the foundation right.

Anyway, very interesting to read your observations of the PS Audio cables so match mine! I wish they were cheaper. . . but I know that good things are not always "cheap," and it's good that they show up in the used market.
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« Last Edit: 07/27/12 at 01:08:50 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #121 - 07/27/12 at 05:31:40
 
Lon, look for some used Goertz MicroPurl IC's - copper version - I think you might find them to your liking...they're only $101 brand new for a meter pair in RCA termination.  I have been using copper and silver versions in both the micropurl and heavier TQ2 version(.22 gauge) for years.  Occasionally I try something new, I have always returned to the Goertz so far.  In fact I use Goertz copper foil inductors in homebrew speaker projects and the difference is not subtle.  Now that I'm embarking on the single, full range, high-efficiency driver, crossoverless speaker journey - I'm trying out a new homebrew speaker "cable"... buy a copper foil inductor, unwind it, and use it for internal speaker cabinet wiring and for wire from amp to speaker.. I have heard from those in the know - that there is nothing better!  gotta give it a try.  I use Goertz speaker cable right now - same thing - I try others, but always come back.  Detail, detail, detail, rez and natural dynamics without glare or fatigue even at high spl's for extended periods.  The copper is more "bloomy" than the silver.  the silver slightly more "incisive".  these characteristics hold true for their IC's and speaker wire.  But Goertz speaker cable is capacitive, but low inductance.  I want to try just plain copper foil without the capacitance of the goertz speaker cable.  

I can't wait to get my hands on a decware amp and will try some decware IC's too.  I can't quite figure out the decware speaker cable - that is going to require some more research and analysis before I bite on it.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #122 - 07/27/12 at 16:09:26
 
I'll keep an eye out but I'm really "cabled out" at the moment. I gave away a few pairs recently, and I still have SEVEN pairs of interconnects not in use at the moment, including four pairs of Decware! I need to buy another set of cables like I need a hole in the head! Smiley And I'm really happy with the cryoset.com cables, and would likely buy another set next so that my entire main system would be cabled with those. Excellent cables, balancing the detail with musicality, which is what my system needs for all the thousands of mediocre or worse recordings I play because i love the music. . . .

Again, I find that "accuracy" is not what my system needs at this critical link. I think were I to be able to fit my room with room treatment that may (or may not) be my need in interconnects, but what I need is a bit of forgiveness. To be honest, the Torii doesn't really offer that, and my source components have some flexibility that helps, but the interconnects do the heavy lifting. My goal for my whole system has to be to make it most musical for most of my recordings, and as a result I think I sacrifice "the greatest sound possible on the great recordings," but I've lived with that quite easily.

As for speaker cable, I've tried about five different "high end" types over the years, and the Decware (after a monstrously long break in period) is the one I return to for the main stystem. It's just so expressive, and yes, I think "accurate" though there are likely more accurate ones out there (will has noted to me that Reality Cables speaker wire is even more so). I just love the speed and tonal character the Decware speaker cable brings. I've stuck with them. My second choice is a pair of PS Audio xStream Statement that I use now in my second system. Warmer, more forgiving actually than the Decware. I'd probably try them in my main system again (I've moved rooms since I last had them in and have almost all new equipment since then) but they're not long enough to use at all, unfortunately. My second system is all the richer (in more than one way) as a result.
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« Last Edit: 07/27/12 at 16:18:02 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #123 - 07/27/12 at 19:16:39
 
I think the "accurate" term is a little difficult for me...or "transparent," or "neutral," since for most of us, this terminology is all relative to our system/rooms, and the sound impressions the cables (or whatever system part we are comparing) bring in that context. So in a sense, I like this technological perspective the Goertz cable makers bring to the table. But sound impressions are the thing, and it always comes to that for me. In that context, I ran across a forum dialog where the Goertz cables did not sync with their systems, having odd anomalies. So there again, it appears system dependent. That said, from maddog07s excitement and explaination, I would like to hear some!

Like Lon noted, I tried some Reality speaker cables and loved many things about them, but finally (in my system/room) they were too much...too good flow, too extended and "neutral," ...everything solidly was there, but for me, a bit too there, perhaps a wee bit "rigid." But I am an inner/subtle detail and texture sort of nutter, and my system is assembled to subtly express this fine detail information without sacrificing warmth and smoothness. I have little doubt that with a slightly less revealing system, I could be very happy with the Reality speaker cables. And as Lon alludes to, on really good recordings, they were hard to give up, but finally I decided I need something less "transparent," less "revealing" ... a little more forgiving.

So I came back to my Decware speaker cables with their also good extension and balance, but by comparison, slightly slower, warmer, (could be called slightly veiled) presentation.

My fav ICs right now are some VHaudio silver recipe that I made. To me, they let it all through, but with subtle grace.
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« Last Edit: 07/27/12 at 19:18:28 by will »  

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #124 - 07/28/12 at 19:39:06
 
I have a followup to my last post...

I do not consider my Decware Styx "slightly veiled," "slightly slower" or slightly lacking in revelation, transparency etc.... except within the context of careful A/B'ing with the extremely complete, flow-through sound of the Realities. Finally this was yet another lesson for me in the subtleties of what makes the music sound real. Broadly, it might be called exploration in musicality. For me, the Reality speaker cables had a whole lot of what I might describe as necessary for musicality....... complete definition...near perfect sounding flow amp-to-speaker (at least in terms of everything being there with no discernible distortions, not bright, not warm, amazing dynamics, balanced, extended. etc....). This very carefully tweaked out cable design was very seductive to me, corroborating the years of development derived from a broad base of good systems and listener's impressions, and loads of experimentation.

But it comes back to defining musicality. As I continue to be seduced by the exploration, the specific, subtle qualities of the presentation becomes more and more critical, the less apparent stuff being extremely interesting....the stuff that makes up the many, many, many layers of the sound. Harmonics, micro dynamics and micro details, and even "distortions."...critical aspects of timbre, attack, ambience, textures, and everything else that gives character to the instruments/instruments and how they manifest together to make up the sound stage, transforming my room to the venue the players are recording in.

This really brings up the questions of bridging "best" technology, with "best" sound... careful blind testing, especially where the testers tastes are sympathetic to our own... so much so as to be extremely compelling....but then......mmmmmmm....not quite there...not quite complete...We seek perfection with incomplete discernment both technological and in listening....bringing in personal taste. It is finally our own personal discernment that leads to our own personal musical presentation. Steve says Decware Styx outperform most others no matter the cost, and the Reality folks say likewise....

I really like them both, but in this case, perhaps the Reality speaker cables were a little "too smart" for me, and the Decware..in comparison mode...perhaps just a little touch too "analog" ???(whatever that means). I think in between would have really gotten my attention!@#$%^&*.

But what is cool, is that the quest allows the missing aspects to become more perceptible, though perhaps less describable. Like a little nagging thing that I can't quite get. To me, this points to how extremely complex the interaction between musical presentation and the body/mind is. And this is why working with gear that is so well made toward the end of sense of "the musicians in the room", can be soooo fun.

We take all the work of those whose gear we agree with, and then assemble it to our tastes in our own rooms. We dig in, and the creative process gets going as we explore taking all this good stuff from the life's work of others, and make it sing for us. The realms of synergies...a vast arena. The deeper I dig, and the more I realize how real "musicians in the room" can sound/feel, the more subtleties show up. At each new step, I am a little better able to discern the very complex and subtle qualities sound waves, sound wave interactions, how gear/cable/room adjustments effect this, and how the whole effects my experience of the music . Vast exploration indeed, and by appearances for me... endless... Thus the fun of the game. Not and unfamiliar experience for any of you who got this far in this post, but it does constantly surprise me how it goes and goes and goes.

Anyway, in this case, for me, the Styx made my system better. Could just be me, and it could be how my system/room has developed, but the Styx are really good for me.
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #125 - 07/30/12 at 17:39:03
 
Let’s take this one step further… we can only share our experiences with equipment and cables… put the same system in a different “room” and it will sound different.  Going even further, each of us has our own perception of “sound”.  Our ears are shaped differently, we process auditory queues differently in our brains and we have different bias’ and sensitivities to the various aspects of sound.  Boil this all down and it really doesn’t matter if what we think we hear can be measured or explained – hearing is a “perception” – if we think we hear it – then we do….. and that’s the bottom line my fellow audiofools....   Smiley
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #126 - 07/30/12 at 20:12:06
 
Good points all!

And it sure is fun to explore perception....learning to refine our many layers of perceptibility, and finally, exploring thoughts/words toward clear definition of what our perceptions are reading. Hopefully this can lead to our ability to convey subtle information in ways that we can help each other be happier with what we perceive!

BTW, does anyone have comparative experience with Morrow IC's?
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