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Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects (Read 19164 times)
Lon
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #120 - 07/27/12 at 01:03:50
 
Hi maddog07,

Thanks for weighing in on this thread! I'm glad that I'm not alone in really reveling in the PS Audio cables. I agree that the connector mass and the way the rest of the plug is constructed are a big part of the reason why these are so special. I firmly believe that the nature of the wire and the different size and shape configuration must play a part as well. I just love the AC-12. I ultimately want three more, so that my whole main system is powered by them. In time I'll have them.

As for interconnects, I don't think I really want "accuracy." I have far too many recordings that just sound bad. Either too much high frequency energy or too thin. Out of the 20,000 cds and lps I have I'd say 19,000 or more are far from "audiophile quality." I think your instincts are right and the Decware cabling is designed for accuracy. . . and they are too accurate for comfortable listening to much of my collection. I've found that the cables from cryoset.com work best for me, and I don't think they're accurate, but what they add or subtract seems to be just right for the material I listen to. I will add that the most recent interconnects I've tried, the My Audio Cables (MAC) "Silver Quad+", are beginning to work wonderfully as the connection between my phono preamp and preamp (after a long breakin). These are perhaps more accurate, I'm not sure yet. I'll keep an eye towards the two that you mention, I certainly wouldn't discount your experience in this realm.

My goal with interconnects is to get a sound that makes most of my listening material sound involving and take me away from the "hifi" experience and into real communing with music, if that makes sense and is even possible. Like you I've been doing this a long time. I think that getting the power "right" (which we've done with PS Audio components and cables) is an important first step, gets the foundation right.

Anyway, very interesting to read your observations of the PS Audio cables so match mine! I wish they were cheaper. . . but I know that good things are not always "cheap," and it's good that they show up in the used market.
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« Last Edit: 07/27/12 at 01:08:50 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,
PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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maddog07
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #121 - 07/27/12 at 05:31:40
 
Lon, look for some used Goertz MicroPurl IC's - copper version - I think you might find them to your liking...they're only $101 brand new for a meter pair in RCA termination.  I have been using copper and silver versions in both the micropurl and heavier TQ2 version(.22 gauge) for years.  Occasionally I try something new, I have always returned to the Goertz so far.  In fact I use Goertz copper foil inductors in homebrew speaker projects and the difference is not subtle.  Now that I'm embarking on the single, full range, high-efficiency driver, crossoverless speaker journey - I'm trying out a new homebrew speaker "cable"... buy a copper foil inductor, unwind it, and use it for internal speaker cabinet wiring and for wire from amp to speaker.. I have heard from those in the know - that there is nothing better!  gotta give it a try.  I use Goertz speaker cable right now - same thing - I try others, but always come back.  Detail, detail, detail, rez and natural dynamics without glare or fatigue even at high spl's for extended periods.  The copper is more "bloomy" than the silver.  the silver slightly more "incisive".  these characteristics hold true for their IC's and speaker wire.  But Goertz speaker cable is capacitive, but low inductance.  I want to try just plain copper foil without the capacitance of the goertz speaker cable.  

I can't wait to get my hands on a decware amp and will try some decware IC's too.  I can't quite figure out the decware speaker cable - that is going to require some more research and analysis before I bite on it.
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Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva UMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aesthetix Calypso, Marsh P200b, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, I'm outta room..
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Lon
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"Love without
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Philip K. D*ck

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #122 - 07/27/12 at 16:09:26
 
I'll keep an eye out but I'm really "cabled out" at the moment. I gave away a few pairs recently, and I still have SEVEN pairs of interconnects not in use at the moment, including four pairs of Decware! I need to buy another set of cables like I need a hole in the head! Smiley And I'm really happy with the cryoset.com cables, and would likely buy another set next so that my entire main system would be cabled with those. Excellent cables, balancing the detail with musicality, which is what my system needs for all the thousands of mediocre or worse recordings I play because i love the music. . . .

Again, I find that "accuracy" is not what my system needs at this critical link. I think were I to be able to fit my room with room treatment that may (or may not) be my need in interconnects, but what I need is a bit of forgiveness. To be honest, the Torii doesn't really offer that, and my source components have some flexibility that helps, but the interconnects do the heavy lifting. My goal for my whole system has to be to make it most musical for most of my recordings, and as a result I think I sacrifice "the greatest sound possible on the great recordings," but I've lived with that quite easily.

As for speaker cable, I've tried about five different "high end" types over the years, and the Decware (after a monstrously long break in period) is the one I return to for the main stystem. It's just so expressive, and yes, I think "accurate" though there are likely more accurate ones out there (will has noted to me that Reality Cables speaker wire is even more so). I just love the speed and tonal character the Decware speaker cable brings. I've stuck with them. My second choice is a pair of PS Audio xStream Statement that I use now in my second system. Warmer, more forgiving actually than the Decware. I'd probably try them in my main system again (I've moved rooms since I last had them in and have almost all new equipment since then) but they're not long enough to use at all, unfortunately. My second system is all the richer (in more than one way) as a result.
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« Last Edit: 07/27/12 at 16:18:02 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,
PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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will
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #123 - 07/27/12 at 19:16:39
 
I think the "accurate" term is a little difficult for me...or "transparent," or "neutral," since for most of us, this terminology is all relative to our system/rooms, and the sound impressions the cables (or whatever system part we are comparing) bring in that context. So in a sense, I like this technological perspective the Goertz cable makers bring to the table. But sound impressions are the thing, and it always comes to that for me. In that context, I ran across a forum dialog where the Goertz cables did not sync with their systems, having odd anomalies. So there again, it appears system dependent. That said, from maddog07s excitement and explaination, I would like to hear some!

Like Lon noted, I tried some Reality speaker cables and loved many things about them, but finally (in my system/room) they were too much...too good flow, too extended and "neutral," ...everything solidly was there, but for me, a bit too there, perhaps a wee bit "rigid." But I am an inner/subtle detail and texture sort of nutter, and my system is assembled to subtly express this fine detail information without sacrificing warmth and smoothness. I have little doubt that with a slightly less revealing system, I could be very happy with the Reality speaker cables. And as Lon alludes to, on really good recordings, they were hard to give up, but finally I decided I need something less "transparent," less "revealing" ... a little more forgiving.

So I came back to my Decware speaker cables with their also good extension and balance, but by comparison, slightly slower, warmer, (could be called slightly veiled) presentation.

My fav ICs right now are some VHaudio silver recipe that I made. To me, they let it all through, but with subtle grace.
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« Last Edit: 07/27/12 at 19:18:28 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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will
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #124 - 07/28/12 at 19:39:06
 
I have a followup to my last post...

I do not consider my Decware Styx "slightly veiled," "slightly slower" or slightly lacking in revelation, transparency etc.... except within the context of careful A/B'ing with the extremely complete, flow-through sound of the Realities. Finally this was yet another lesson for me in the subtleties of what makes the music sound real. Broadly, it might be called exploration in musicality. For me, the Reality speaker cables had a whole lot of what I might describe as necessary for musicality....... complete definition...near perfect sounding flow amp-to-speaker (at least in terms of everything being there with no discernible distortions, not bright, not warm, amazing dynamics, balanced, extended. etc....). This very carefully tweaked out cable design was very seductive to me, corroborating the years of development derived from a broad base of good systems and listener's impressions, and loads of experimentation.

But it comes back to defining musicality. As I continue to be seduced by the exploration, the specific, subtle qualities of the presentation becomes more and more critical, the less apparent stuff being extremely interesting....the stuff that makes up the many, many, many layers of the sound. Harmonics, micro dynamics and micro details, and even "distortions."...critical aspects of timbre, attack, ambience, textures, and everything else that gives character to the instruments/instruments and how they manifest together to make up the sound stage, transforming my room to the venue the players are recording in.

This really brings up the questions of bridging "best" technology, with "best" sound... careful blind testing, especially where the testers tastes are sympathetic to our own... so much so as to be extremely compelling....but then......mmmmmmm....not quite there...not quite complete...We seek perfection with incomplete discernment both technological and in listening....bringing in personal taste. It is finally our own personal discernment that leads to our own personal musical presentation. Steve says Decware Styx outperform most others no matter the cost, and the Reality folks say likewise....

I really like them both, but in this case, perhaps the Reality speaker cables were a little "too smart" for me, and the Decware..in comparison mode...perhaps just a little touch too "analog" ???(whatever that means). I think in between would have really gotten my attention!@#$%^&*.

But what is cool, is that the quest allows the missing aspects to become more perceptible, though perhaps less describable. Like a little nagging thing that I can't quite get. To me, this points to how extremely complex the interaction between musical presentation and the body/mind is. And this is why working with gear that is so well made toward the end of sense of "the musicians in the room", can be soooo fun.

We take all the work of those whose gear we agree with, and then assemble it to our tastes in our own rooms. We dig in, and the creative process gets going as we explore taking all this good stuff from the life's work of others, and make it sing for us. The realms of synergies...a vast arena. The deeper I dig, and the more I realize how real "musicians in the room" can sound/feel, the more subtleties show up. At each new step, I am a little better able to discern the very complex and subtle qualities sound waves, sound wave interactions, how gear/cable/room adjustments effect this, and how the whole effects my experience of the music . Vast exploration indeed, and by appearances for me... endless... Thus the fun of the game. Not and unfamiliar experience for any of you who got this far in this post, but it does constantly surprise me how it goes and goes and goes.

Anyway, in this case, for me, the Styx made my system better. Could just be me, and it could be how my system/room has developed, but the Styx are really good for me.
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Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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maddog07
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #125 - 07/30/12 at 17:39:03
 
Let’s take this one step further… we can only share our experiences with equipment and cables… put the same system in a different “room” and it will sound different.  Going even further, each of us has our own perception of “sound”.  Our ears are shaped differently, we process auditory queues differently in our brains and we have different bias’ and sensitivities to the various aspects of sound.  Boil this all down and it really doesn’t matter if what we think we hear can be measured or explained – hearing is a “perception” – if we think we hear it – then we do….. and that’s the bottom line my fellow audiofools....   Smiley
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Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva UMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aesthetix Calypso, Marsh P200b, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, I'm outta room..
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will
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #126 - 07/30/12 at 20:12:06
 
Good points all!

And it sure is fun to explore perception....learning to refine our many layers of perceptibility, and finally, exploring thoughts/words toward clear definition of what our perceptions are reading. Hopefully this can lead to our ability to convey subtle information in ways that we can help each other be happier with what we perceive!

BTW, does anyone have comparative experience with Morrow IC's?
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Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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