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Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects (Read 7201 times)
Lon
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #100 - 06/23/12 at 12:25:58
 
sberger wrote on 06/23/12 at 06:37:06:
Congrats on the CSP2 being back in the system Lon. Glad to hear that nothing was wrong with it after all. This hobby of ours will certainly humble even the most grizzled veterans of it's wars, won't it. Just another way of letting us know to go slow and check on even the most obvious things. Looking forward to hearing what I did to screw up my Torii.



By the by, it sure is nice to have the CSP2 back. The ability to adjust the output gain is such a great feature to have.* I've been able to really dial it in for the phono preamp, and vinyl listening is now at a new level, I'm just loving listening to vinyl. And CDs, and SACDs, and TV and DVD and Blu-ray. I've spent a small fortune but don't regret it as I've sound that I can just sink into. As so much of my time is spent in these pastimes, it is a great benefit.

And I needed the humbling. I need to pay more attention. And maybe check out "audiophile fuses." Seems the next "crazy audiophile" step to check out. . . Smiley

*Looking forward to the CSP2+ and it's ability to adjust input gain. This way I can match the gain of the phono preamp and the SACD player. I find I prefer the PS Audio DAC output straight into the Torii, so with the CSP2+ I'll have a great set up for three sources.
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« Last Edit: 06/23/12 at 12:28:35 by Lon »  

Decware:HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,ZBIT,Taboo III;PS Audio DMP+DS,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade spkr cbl;CambridgeAud CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,wh belt, Groovetracer upgrades+Exact2;VooDoo Cbl:Stradivarius+Cremona,Iso-Pods; Mplshade:Samson v3;Oppo PM-1;Audeze LCD2
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sberger
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #101 - 06/23/12 at 14:29:33
 
Lon and Will thanks. Both make compelling suggestions. I have some thinking to do before shelling out more Lincolns. Will probably wait until I get the Torii back and let the v-caps settle in a bit before making any more changes.

Or not.
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Lon
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #102 - 06/23/12 at 14:38:29
 
I like the "or not." Smiley Every time I make a resolve I seem to fudge on it!

Good idea though, wait for the V Caps to settle a bit.
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will
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #103 - 06/23/12 at 15:06:08
 
Sounds like a good idea.

Do you think your cable fit issue to the Torii is mostly from downward pull, or more from lack of lateral tightness.

If lateral, it might be remedied by tightening the cable end fit using teflon plumbing tape wrapped around the narrow plastic part that slips into the Torii IEC. Keep adding wraps until snug. Or to relieve downward pressure, I would think that some sort of cable tie, secured at the right point down the cable to have a relaxed bend and so that you could attach it somehow to the back of a rack self could do a lot. Maybe some light screws into the shelf through a velcro cable wrap?

Even the right tape, like that heavy duty duct tape might work on its own, one end wrapped around the cable and the other taped to the top/back of a rack shelf???
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sberger
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #104 - 06/23/12 at 16:11:31
 
Could be both. Steve from My Audio Cables also recommended your idea about using a tie around the rack. Will try that and your other idea when the Torii is back in action.

Thanks!
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will
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #105 - 06/23/12 at 17:05:05
 
It has been a while, but I think I recall stabilizing the cable end with teflon tape seemed to do some vibration reduction with the benefit of sound improvement...
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Lon
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #106 - 06/25/12 at 16:14:02
 
Sam, I took the older of the Burly cords out of the bedroom system as it's had some hours on it now and played around with it in the main system.

You're definitely going to have to secure the cable to the rack as there is more weight exerting downward force on this cable than on any other cable I've tried. There is four feet of surpreme, weighty stiffness bracketed at both ends with supreme flexibility.

I tried the cable between the wall and the Power Plant Premier, between the Premier and the Torii, and between the Premier and the Denon DCD-A100. Powering the Denon was where I liked it best. At the moment I'm using the Denon as my source for SACD and Redbook, and its DAC as my audio source for Blu-ray and DVR; I've my PS Audio PerfectWave DAC packed up and ready to go to FedEx for a return, I'm finally going for the upgrade to Mark II. I still prefer the AC-12 to the Burly in this spot, but by a smaller margin than in the other locations, and so I'm going to leave it there for a spell.

In comparison, the AC-12 imparts just a bit more of a warm, analog sound. The Burly seems to be a smidgeon quieter, and there's a tiny bit more "jump factor," and also a tiny bit more of an edge to the sound. That might subside. . . Seems to me every time I unplug a digital component it takes a full day to really come back 100 percent.
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« Last Edit: 06/25/12 at 16:21:19 by Lon »  

Decware:HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,ZBIT,Taboo III;PS Audio DMP+DS,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade spkr cbl;CambridgeAud CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,wh belt, Groovetracer upgrades+Exact2;VooDoo Cbl:Stradivarius+Cremona,Iso-Pods; Mplshade:Samson v3;Oppo PM-1;Audeze LCD2
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Lon
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #107 - 06/28/12 at 13:39:35
 
Sam, since you were interested in the Burly cord. . .

After a few days in several places in the main system I took them out. I  had them powering my Denon and CSP2 for a day, and I had them powering my Blu-ray player and my DVR for a day but wasn't happy.  Not that they're a bad cord at all, but I just couldn't live without the PS Audio xStream Premier SC or PS Audio PerfectWave AC-10 cords they were replacing. Those are clearly better cords in my system, and I missed them being there. They have an openness and clarity that the Burly lacks.  In comparison the Burly is darker and . . . dull. And for a monitor the PS Audio cords create a more vivid, richer image. I'm sure it would have been the cup of tea for me in an earlier version of my system when the sound was brighter and thinner (mainly due to improper power management)--but not now. Really the Burly reminds me of the MAC-manufactured Decware cord, though perhaps a bit richer and by that token a bit slower.

So. . . not as impressed with the two that I have as I thought I would be darn it. But they'll work well in the second system.
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« Last Edit: 06/28/12 at 13:46:45 by Lon »  

Decware:HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,ZBIT,Taboo III;PS Audio DMP+DS,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade spkr cbl;CambridgeAud CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,wh belt, Groovetracer upgrades+Exact2;VooDoo Cbl:Stradivarius+Cremona,Iso-Pods; Mplshade:Samson v3;Oppo PM-1;Audeze LCD2
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sberger
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #108 - 06/28/12 at 15:01:14
 
Lon interesting. Thanks. Looks like I have some thinking to do. I'm actually leaning on just going back to my Decware cord ( assume Steve voices his amps with it) until I get a good basic grasp of the v-caps effect. Once I put some mileage on them I will probably revisit the pc issue and hopefully have some good used options.
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Lon
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #109 - 06/28/12 at 15:34:11
 
Yes, I'm eager to hear your impressions of the Torii on its return, and with the PP Premier now in the system. Smiley
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sberger
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #110 - 06/28/12 at 16:34:57
 
I'm eager to hear it myself. Any idea how long repairs normally take? Your CSP2 got fixed pretty quickly, right? Somewhere I read that repairs take priority at  Decware. Hope so. Enjoying having my Fisher 500C back in the rig but really looking forward to having the Torii back.
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Lon
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #111 - 06/28/12 at 17:12:53
 
Yes, my CSP2 was repaired quite quickly, although it didn't need repair. Smiley It was tested for 72 hours and sent back so my best guess is it spent five days or less there. So priority is given to repairs as we've read.

(I discover why I thought mine was damaged and sent it off. When I blew a few fuses I put my last fuse in, and it powered up the input tubes but not the rectifier and I thought something was wrong. Well I didn't check, and that rectifier was dead. So if I'd put in another rectifier I would have been up and rolling, and I should have, not sure why I didn't. It was a rectifier that had just arrived in a batch of three, cheap, off ebay. I might have fried it, or it might have been dead. I'm always living and learning).

So here's hoping yours is back SOON.
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sberger
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #112 - 06/28/12 at 17:48:46
 
Your description is quite similar to my problem but I think mine might be more serious. I got a nasty hum in the right channel with or without tubes, and could smell a faint odor which in my world is never a good thing. So we will see. But in the end run it will work out for the best as it will get a once over, the warranty will be switched to my name and it'll have the upgrade. So a win win.
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Lon
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #113 - 06/28/12 at 18:01:01
 
Yes, I think  you did the right thing considering all the possibilities! And to be upgraded, and have the warranty in your name. . . good things to get accomplished.

Hopefully you'll have this back within a week or so.
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Lon
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #114 - 07/05/12 at 15:24:01
 
I've several hundred hours plus on the Silver Quad + interconnects that I have received from My Audio Cables, and I moved a pair from the second system and over to the main system, using them in place of a pair of cryoset.com cables between the phono preamp and the CSP2.

They now sound very good (and had been sounding very good between the DEC685 and the Torii Mk II in the second system). They are a bit 'faster' sounding than the MAC Ultra-Silver + cables that they otherwise resemble quite closely. These are cables for lovers of detail, there are plenty of nuances you'll hear with these and a good sense of dynamics as well. A "sunny" sound, not a bright one, that silver sound.

In comparison the cryoset.com cables have almost all of these qualities AND an enhanced sense of weight and solidity. It's just on the fuller side of a subtle difference, a significant one for those whose system may need that bit of heft or warmth. There's also audibly a smidgeon more depth to the cyroset.com cable sound. I prefer the cryoset.com cables for most material, but I could easily be happy with these in this position. The cryoset.com cables cost three times as much. So having them already, I'll definitely use them. But at the bargain prices that one can get the Silver Quad + and the Ultra-Silver +, these are good choices and a bargain at those prices.

Both of the MAC cables work very well in my second system, where speaker placement thickens the sound somewhat, and the sunny character is a benefit.
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« Last Edit: 07/05/12 at 15:28:54 by Lon »  

Decware:HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,ZBIT,Taboo III;PS Audio DMP+DS,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade spkr cbl;CambridgeAud CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,wh belt, Groovetracer upgrades+Exact2;VooDoo Cbl:Stradivarius+Cremona,Iso-Pods; Mplshade:Samson v3;Oppo PM-1;Audeze LCD2
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Hipfan
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #115 - 07/05/12 at 16:26:47
 
Thanks for sharing. I am currently breaking in a set of UltraSilver+ ICs and CuQ SCs and like what I am hearing so far. My Torii should arrive in the next week, so I'm very interest to hear how they sound with my new toy. Also, it appears as if the MAC website is down. I contacted Steve, but haven't heard back yet.
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Lon
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #116 - 07/05/12 at 16:32:06
 
I noticed the website is down as well; hope they can get it back up (seems a whole group is down) as they're losing money! Sad

Glad you're enjoying breaking in the new cables. . . i bet that they'll really shine with the Torii!
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« Last Edit: 07/05/12 at 16:34:54 by Lon »  

Decware:HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,ZBIT,Taboo III;PS Audio DMP+DS,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade spkr cbl;CambridgeAud CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,wh belt, Groovetracer upgrades+Exact2;VooDoo Cbl:Stradivarius+Cremona,Iso-Pods; Mplshade:Samson v3;Oppo PM-1;Audeze LCD2
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Lon
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #117 - 07/11/12 at 14:58:57
 
My Audio Cables website is back online:

http://www.myaudiocables.com/

Silver Quad + are up ten bucks.
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Lon
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #118 - 07/12/12 at 16:55:09
 
I really want to like the Burly cords more, and believe what Steve Halick and a few others say about them. After even more time seasoning in in the second system I tried them again in the main system.

And they did sound improved. They did sound improved in dynamics, and seem the equal to the AC-10 and AC-12 in that respect on a lot of material. And it's just possible that there's a bit more "black," that the cords may make the background slightly more black and quiet, but the flipside of that is there is more grain and a looser bass than the AC-10 and AC-12 bring to the system. So despite the improved sound and the strengths of these cables, I put them back in the bedroom system. The Burly worked best between the PS Audio Soloist (Ethereal version) wall outlet and the PS Audio Power Plant Premier, but even then there was that hint of grain and a lack of ease to listen to that the AC-12 brings in that spot.

Ah well, they'll stay put in the bedroom system now. In that system they are each feeding a PS Aduio Duet from the wall, and a PS Audio xStream Statement cord feeds the Torii Mk II from one (analog component) Duet, and the DEC685 from the other (digital component) Duet. On the analog leg the PS Audio GCPH is fed by a PS Audio xStream Plus SC, the preamp by a My Audio Cables HC, the turntable by its captive cord, and on the digital side the TV is connected with a Decware cord.

Guess I can stop spending money on power cords for a while. Smiley
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« Last Edit: 07/12/12 at 17:16:44 by Lon »  

Decware:HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,ZBIT,Taboo III;PS Audio DMP+DS,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade spkr cbl;CambridgeAud CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,wh belt, Groovetracer upgrades+Exact2;VooDoo Cbl:Stradivarius+Cremona,Iso-Pods; Mplshade:Samson v3;Oppo PM-1;Audeze LCD2
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maddog07
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #119 - 07/27/12 at 00:08:12
 
Hi Lon..  

I’m a noob to Decware and this forum, but a long-time audiofool.  I was perusing the forum looking for a Decware amp to buy to avoid the 12+ week wait (and having very little luck so far I might add) and somehow following links ended up here.  I couldn’t help but notice your praise for PS Audio SC and PW-AC pwr cords - +1, +2, +3 from me on this topic!   Smiley  There are none better IMO or experience.  And they got me off the pwr cord merry-go-round several years ago.  As with most “cables”, of any kind, “the connectors” are the most important component.  Yes… super-sonic-space-modulated metallurgy of the wire is important too, but the connector is where the rubber-meets-the-road.  PS pwr cords have heavy, solid, machined prongs.  I have yet to find any other brand, no matter the price, that has a connector even remotely in the same league as the PSA’s.  Pick your flavor, Wattgate, Oyaide.. etc.  they all have “stamped” prongs with “holes” in them – I don’t care what they’re plated with, they are a fraction of the PSA’s mass.  The designer cable may have 7 gauge, hyper-litz, spiraled, foamed Teflon insulation, continuous cast copper wire, but its all terminated at the ends to a micro fine plating of somekind, light gauge piece of “stamped” brass for prongs – think about it!.  In my experience, the PW-AC 12, like you praise, is about the equivalent of putting a good power conditioner or isolation transformer at you’re A/C source – the improvement is not subtle.  And I am talking "improvement" here - not just "different".  More rez, more micro and macro dynamics, blah, blah, blah - better - more like live music.  I too use the PSA PP Premier – takes the performance of every system I’ve ever tried it in (all mine and my audio buds systems), up several notches… but I digress – this an I/C topic… so on to that topic.

At the outset, let me state, that I am not an electrical engineer.  But I have good, close friends that are and I have read every technical white paper I can find on the principals and theory of the “transmission of analog audio frequencies over wire” that I could find.  The “ability” of a given piece of wire and its “connectors” to “accurately” transmit an analog frequency can be measured.  And subsequently the design of a cable and its connectors can be engineered to “effect” the signal passing thru them in a predetermined manner or to be “accurate”.  I won’t get into the electrical properties involved here as that would be a whole nother egg to fry.  However, as we all know, one may or may not “like” what the cable does to the sound in a particular system, but accuracy in the transmission of a given source signal can be attained.  But it involves knowing the output impedance of the source, and the input impedance of the target and engineering the interface(the cable) to match their electrical characteristics.  And thus those of us on the quest for the Holy Grail will never get there, because it is impossible for us to try every conceivable combination of source component, cable and downstream device possible until we get to that infinitely far away goal of perfection – the actual live performance in our listening spaces.  Once I finally realized this, I altered my quest to seek out “accuracy” as that is more feasibly obtained and choose components accordingly.  I have been chasing this carrot-on-a-stick goal for about 30 years.  I have owned more brands of cable than I can even enumerate.  But just to toss my 2-cents into this ring… I have found two brands of interconnects that, once again, got me off the interconnect merry-go-round; those designed and used to be sold by John Dunlavy of Dunlavy speaker fame, and Goertz/Alpha-Core.  Neither of these require 2nd mortgages and can be bought quite inexpensively used.  You may not “like” them in your system, but I have found them to be very neutral, “accurate” and revealing.  Dunlavy even included the testing measurements of his cables with each specific pair sold.  If you run across some – give’em a try.  The Goertz can be had in solid copper or solid silver forms.  I own both and they do allow for some tuning as they do sound different.  The Dunlavy’s only come in one flavor, as John designed for “accuracy” – period – end of story.  Dunlavy is long out of biz and John has passed on, so these would only be found used.  Goertz is still alive and well, but not generally well known.  Audiophile cables are a side-line of their main biz – transformer design and manufacture, so they do know what they’re doing..!!!

Now.. having said all that.  Since I have discovered "Decware".  I have been reading all of Steve's papers and poking around on this forum and have talked to Steve at length about his amps and what I'm seeking.  And beginning to learn what Decware is all about, I've got a pretty good hunch that Decware's cables are probably designed pretty well and are intentionally engineered to fall into the "accurate" electrical signal transmission camp and not in the "tone control" camp.  If I ever manage to purchase a Decware amp, I absolutely intend to try Decware cables too - why wouldn't you - it's almost a no brainer!   Wink
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Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva XMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aesthetix Calypso, Wyred STP-SE, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, Cary SLI-80, DM945's.....
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Lon
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #120 - 07/27/12 at 01:03:50
 
Hi maddog07,

Thanks for weighing in on this thread! I'm glad that I'm not alone in really reveling in the PS Audio cables. I agree that the connector mass and the way the rest of the plug is constructed are a big part of the reason why these are so special. I firmly believe that the nature of the wire and the different size and shape configuration must play a part as well. I just love the AC-12. I ultimately want three more, so that my whole main system is powered by them. In time I'll have them.

As for interconnects, I don't think I really want "accuracy." I have far too many recordings that just sound bad. Either too much high frequency energy or too thin. Out of the 20,000 cds and lps I have I'd say 19,000 or more are far from "audiophile quality." I think your instincts are right and the Decware cabling is designed for accuracy. . . and they are too accurate for comfortable listening to much of my collection. I've found that the cables from cryoset.com work best for me, and I don't think they're accurate, but what they add or subtract seems to be just right for the material I listen to. I will add that the most recent interconnects I've tried, the My Audio Cables (MAC) "Silver Quad+", are beginning to work wonderfully as the connection between my phono preamp and preamp (after a long breakin). These are perhaps more accurate, I'm not sure yet. I'll keep an eye towards the two that you mention, I certainly wouldn't discount your experience in this realm.

My goal with interconnects is to get a sound that makes most of my listening material sound involving and take me away from the "hifi" experience and into real communing with music, if that makes sense and is even possible. Like you I've been doing this a long time. I think that getting the power "right" (which we've done with PS Audio components and cables) is an important first step, gets the foundation right.

Anyway, very interesting to read your observations of the PS Audio cables so match mine! I wish they were cheaper. . . but I know that good things are not always "cheap," and it's good that they show up in the used market.
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« Last Edit: 07/27/12 at 01:08:50 by Lon »  

Decware:HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,ZBIT,Taboo III;PS Audio DMP+DS,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade spkr cbl;CambridgeAud CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,wh belt, Groovetracer upgrades+Exact2;VooDoo Cbl:Stradivarius+Cremona,Iso-Pods; Mplshade:Samson v3;Oppo PM-1;Audeze LCD2
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maddog07
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #121 - 07/27/12 at 05:31:40
 
Lon, look for some used Goertz MicroPurl IC's - copper version - I think you might find them to your liking...they're only $101 brand new for a meter pair in RCA termination.  I have been using copper and silver versions in both the micropurl and heavier TQ2 version(.22 gauge) for years.  Occasionally I try something new, I have always returned to the Goertz so far.  In fact I use Goertz copper foil inductors in homebrew speaker projects and the difference is not subtle.  Now that I'm embarking on the single, full range, high-efficiency driver, crossoverless speaker journey - I'm trying out a new homebrew speaker "cable"... buy a copper foil inductor, unwind it, and use it for internal speaker cabinet wiring and for wire from amp to speaker.. I have heard from those in the know - that there is nothing better!  gotta give it a try.  I use Goertz speaker cable right now - same thing - I try others, but always come back.  Detail, detail, detail, rez and natural dynamics without glare or fatigue even at high spl's for extended periods.  The copper is more "bloomy" than the silver.  the silver slightly more "incisive".  these characteristics hold true for their IC's and speaker wire.  But Goertz speaker cable is capacitive, but low inductance.  I want to try just plain copper foil without the capacitance of the goertz speaker cable.  

I can't wait to get my hands on a decware amp and will try some decware IC's too.  I can't quite figure out the decware speaker cable - that is going to require some more research and analysis before I bite on it.
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Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva XMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aesthetix Calypso, Wyred STP-SE, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, Cary SLI-80, DM945's.....
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Lon
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #122 - 07/27/12 at 16:09:26
 
I'll keep an eye out but I'm really "cabled out" at the moment. I gave away a few pairs recently, and I still have SEVEN pairs of interconnects not in use at the moment, including four pairs of Decware! I need to buy another set of cables like I need a hole in the head! Smiley And I'm really happy with the cryoset.com cables, and would likely buy another set next so that my entire main system would be cabled with those. Excellent cables, balancing the detail with musicality, which is what my system needs for all the thousands of mediocre or worse recordings I play because i love the music. . . .

Again, I find that "accuracy" is not what my system needs at this critical link. I think were I to be able to fit my room with room treatment that may (or may not) be my need in interconnects, but what I need is a bit of forgiveness. To be honest, the Torii doesn't really offer that, and my source components have some flexibility that helps, but the interconnects do the heavy lifting. My goal for my whole system has to be to make it most musical for most of my recordings, and as a result I think I sacrifice "the greatest sound possible on the great recordings," but I've lived with that quite easily.

As for speaker cable, I've tried about five different "high end" types over the years, and the Decware (after a monstrously long break in period) is the one I return to for the main stystem. It's just so expressive, and yes, I think "accurate" though there are likely more accurate ones out there (will has noted to me that Reality Cables speaker wire is even more so). I just love the speed and tonal character the Decware speaker cable brings. I've stuck with them. My second choice is a pair of PS Audio xStream Statement that I use now in my second system. Warmer, more forgiving actually than the Decware. I'd probably try them in my main system again (I've moved rooms since I last had them in and have almost all new equipment since then) but they're not long enough to use at all, unfortunately. My second system is all the richer (in more than one way) as a result.
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« Last Edit: 07/27/12 at 16:18:02 by Lon »  

Decware:HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,ZBIT,Taboo III;PS Audio DMP+DS,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade spkr cbl;CambridgeAud CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,wh belt, Groovetracer upgrades+Exact2;VooDoo Cbl:Stradivarius+Cremona,Iso-Pods; Mplshade:Samson v3;Oppo PM-1;Audeze LCD2
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will
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #123 - 07/27/12 at 19:16:39
 
I think the "accurate" term is a little difficult for me...or "transparent," or "neutral," since for most of us, this terminology is all relative to our system/rooms, and the sound impressions the cables (or whatever system part we are comparing) bring in that context. So in a sense, I like this technological perspective the Goertz cable makers bring to the table. But sound impressions are the thing, and it always comes to that for me. In that context, I ran across a forum dialog where the Goertz cables did not sync with their systems, having odd anomalies. So there again, it appears system dependent. That said, from maddog07s excitement and explaination, I would like to hear some!

Like Lon noted, I tried some Reality speaker cables and loved many things about them, but finally (in my system/room) they were too much...too good flow, too extended and "neutral," ...everything solidly was there, but for me, a bit too there, perhaps a wee bit "rigid." But I am an inner/subtle detail and texture sort of nutter, and my system is assembled to subtly express this fine detail information without sacrificing warmth and smoothness. I have little doubt that with a slightly less revealing system, I could be very happy with the Reality speaker cables. And as Lon alludes to, on really good recordings, they were hard to give up, but finally I decided I need something less "transparent," less "revealing" ... a little more forgiving.

So I came back to my Decware speaker cables with their also good extension and balance, but by comparison, slightly slower, warmer, (could be called slightly veiled) presentation.

My fav ICs right now are some VHaudio silver recipe that I made. To me, they let it all through, but with subtle grace.
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« Last Edit: 07/27/12 at 19:18:28 by will »  

PSA P5/modified Brickwall/Shunyata Defender/more; MacMini/Audirvana>Jitterbug/Regen> modified Gustard x20pro DAC; DIY + Pi Audio PCs; DIY ICs + USB; modified Jupiter CSP3, Torii MKIV, HR1; DIY Speaker Cables; feet - Madscientist, SynRes, Archie's, Herbie's isocup
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #124 - 07/28/12 at 19:39:06
 
I have a followup to my last post...

I do not consider my Decware Styx "slightly veiled," "slightly slower" or slightly lacking in revelation, transparency etc.... except within the context of careful A/B'ing with the extremely complete, flow-through sound of the Realities. Finally this was yet another lesson for me in the subtleties of what makes the music sound real. Broadly, it might be called exploration in musicality. For me, the Reality speaker cables had a whole lot of what I might describe as necessary for musicality....... complete definition...near perfect sounding flow amp-to-speaker (at least in terms of everything being there with no discernible distortions, not bright, not warm, amazing dynamics, balanced, extended. etc....). This very carefully tweaked out cable design was very seductive to me, corroborating the years of development derived from a broad base of good systems and listener's impressions, and loads of experimentation.

But it comes back to defining musicality. As I continue to be seduced by the exploration, the specific, subtle qualities of the presentation becomes more and more critical, the less apparent stuff being extremely interesting....the stuff that makes up the many, many, many layers of the sound. Harmonics, micro dynamics and micro details, and even "distortions."...critical aspects of timbre, attack, ambience, textures, and everything else that gives character to the instruments/instruments and how they manifest together to make up the sound stage, transforming my room to the venue the players are recording in.

This really brings up the questions of bridging "best" technology, with "best" sound... careful blind testing, especially where the testers tastes are sympathetic to our own... so much so as to be extremely compelling....but then......mmmmmmm....not quite there...not quite complete...We seek perfection with incomplete discernment both technological and in listening....bringing in personal taste. It is finally our own personal discernment that leads to our own personal musical presentation. Steve says Decware Styx outperform most others no matter the cost, and the Reality folks say likewise....

I really like them both, but in this case, perhaps the Reality speaker cables were a little "too smart" for me, and the Decware..in comparison mode...perhaps just a little touch too "analog" ???(whatever that means). I think in between would have really gotten my attention!@#$%^&*.

But what is cool, is that the quest allows the missing aspects to become more perceptible, though perhaps less describable. Like a little nagging thing that I can't quite get. To me, this points to how extremely complex the interaction between musical presentation and the body/mind is. And this is why working with gear that is so well made toward the end of sense of "the musicians in the room", can be soooo fun.

We take all the work of those whose gear we agree with, and then assemble it to our tastes in our own rooms. We dig in, and the creative process gets going as we explore taking all this good stuff from the life's work of others, and make it sing for us. The realms of synergies...a vast arena. The deeper I dig, and the more I realize how real "musicians in the room" can sound/feel, the more subtleties show up. At each new step, I am a little better able to discern the very complex and subtle qualities sound waves, sound wave interactions, how gear/cable/room adjustments effect this, and how the whole effects my experience of the music . Vast exploration indeed, and by appearances for me... endless... Thus the fun of the game. Not and unfamiliar experience for any of you who got this far in this post, but it does constantly surprise me how it goes and goes and goes.

Anyway, in this case, for me, the Styx made my system better. Could just be me, and it could be how my system/room has developed, but the Styx are really good for me.
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maddog07
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #125 - 07/30/12 at 17:39:03
 
Let’s take this one step further… we can only share our experiences with equipment and cables… put the same system in a different “room” and it will sound different.  Going even further, each of us has our own perception of “sound”.  Our ears are shaped differently, we process auditory queues differently in our brains and we have different bias’ and sensitivities to the various aspects of sound.  Boil this all down and it really doesn’t matter if what we think we hear can be measured or explained – hearing is a “perception” – if we think we hear it – then we do….. and that’s the bottom line my fellow audiofools....   Smiley
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Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva XMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aesthetix Calypso, Wyred STP-SE, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, Cary SLI-80, DM945's.....
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will
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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #126 - 07/30/12 at 20:12:06
 
Good points all!

And it sure is fun to explore perception....learning to refine our many layers of perceptibility, and finally, exploring thoughts/words toward clear definition of what our perceptions are reading. Hopefully this can lead to our ability to convey subtle information in ways that we can help each other be happier with what we perceive!

BTW, does anyone have comparative experience with Morrow IC's?
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PSA P5/modified Brickwall/Shunyata Defender/more; MacMini/Audirvana>Jitterbug/Regen> modified Gustard x20pro DAC; DIY + Pi Audio PCs; DIY ICs + USB; modified Jupiter CSP3, Torii MKIV, HR1; DIY Speaker Cables; feet - Madscientist, SynRes, Archie's, Herbie's isocup
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