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Headphones different without speakers connected (Read 9848 times)
Don W
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Posts: 58
Headphones different without speakers connected
01/05/12 at 23:08:31
 
I just discovered that headphones out of the Taboo sound totally different when the speakers are not connected. Much louder for one thing. But also less bass, less fullness, sharper, more "canned" feeling. Interesting.
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Decware: Taboo, CSP2+, Mini-Torii, MG944, ERR, Zen Styx, DSR-II interconnects, DHC-1 power cables. Other: Audeze LCD-3 w/ Q cables, EE Mini-Max DAC Plus, Audio-gd SA-1 DAC, Audio-gd DI-DSP USB to Coaxial converter. Homemade PC with JRiver Media Center.
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Rivieraranch
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Re: Headphones different without speakers connected
Reply #1 - 01/05/12 at 23:17:15
 
What about with a speaker cutoff switch? Should you use the headphones with the speakers connected? My TABOO is up at DECWARE right now waiting for the headphone jack to be installed. Are there any instructions on how to use the unit as a headphone amp?
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DECWARE CSP2+, TABOO MK III; SE84CKC; HR1; TRAPEZIUM DESKTOP SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 turntable; Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CD player; MARANTZ 2226B, 2216B receivers; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
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Don W
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Posts: 58
Re: Headphones different without speakers connected
Reply #2 - 01/05/12 at 23:33:01
 
I don't have a speaker cutoff switch. If speakers are connected, Plugging in headphones has zero effect that I can hear on sould from speakers. Headphones are louder because they are right next to the ear, so speakers end up not being too loud. It didn't come with any instructions for headphones. There is a note on the web page for Mini Torri to disconnect the speakers if you don't want to get the speaker cutoff switch option and are worried about the speakers being too loud. No cutoff switch option is mentioned on the Taboo web page. Is a cutoff switch available for the Taboo?
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Decware: Taboo, CSP2+, Mini-Torii, MG944, ERR, Zen Styx, DSR-II interconnects, DHC-1 power cables. Other: Audeze LCD-3 w/ Q cables, EE Mini-Max DAC Plus, Audio-gd SA-1 DAC, Audio-gd DI-DSP USB to Coaxial converter. Homemade PC with JRiver Media Center.
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Rivieraranch
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Re: Headphones different without speakers connected
Reply #3 - 01/06/12 at 00:42:39
 
I spoke to Steve about it and he said he could do one. He said that the amp should be connected to the speakers when running. That the speaker output would be slight with the headphone jack filled. With what you are saying I am concerned about the sonic implications.  
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« Last Edit: 01/06/12 at 02:42:52 by Rivieraranch »  

DECWARE CSP2+, TABOO MK III; SE84CKC; HR1; TRAPEZIUM DESKTOP SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 turntable; Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CD player; MARANTZ 2226B, 2216B receivers; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
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Don W
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Posts: 58
Re: Headphones different without speakers connected
Reply #4 - 01/06/12 at 06:01:30
 
I'd be interested to hear what he says about it. I don't understand what causes the difference to headphones when unplugging the speakers, but perhaps Steve can make a cutoff switch which makes it so the Amp "sees" the speakers but doesn't actually drive them. I don't know.
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Decware: Taboo, CSP2+, Mini-Torii, MG944, ERR, Zen Styx, DSR-II interconnects, DHC-1 power cables. Other: Audeze LCD-3 w/ Q cables, EE Mini-Max DAC Plus, Audio-gd SA-1 DAC, Audio-gd DI-DSP USB to Coaxial converter. Homemade PC with JRiver Media Center.
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Rivieraranch
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Re: Headphones different without speakers connected
Reply #5 - 01/06/12 at 12:15:48
 
There's an idea. I will let you know what I find out when I speak to him. He usually calls the customer when he has a repair or upgrade piece on the bench.
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DECWARE CSP2+, TABOO MK III; SE84CKC; HR1; TRAPEZIUM DESKTOP SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 turntable; Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CD player; MARANTZ 2226B, 2216B receivers; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
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Pale Rider
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Re: Headphones different without speakers connected
Reply #6 - 01/06/12 at 15:14:28
 
Interesting. I don't believe my Taboo has a cutoff switch. From Day One, my Taboo has been a headphone-only amp, except for the period of break-in I did. I did about 120 hours of break-in with a small set of Orb satellites. While listening with the headphones, I did not notice any significant difference between the sound with or without the speakers connected, even with the speakers placed inside a gym bag inside a cabinet drawer. That way, I was pretty sure I had eliminated any possible background effect (the cans are open air on the Taboo).

Where my Taboo is now, unless I turn the rest of the system to zero, there is some inevitable background effect. That effect is very discernible.  But with the Toriis and SE84ZS in the room set to zero (the Ultra sends out signal to all outputs), plugging or unplugging a set of speakers into the Taboo seems to have no effect. I emphasize "seems" because it is very difficult to isolate that very low background volume.

I would be interested in whether Steve thinks there is actually an electrical reason why a cutoff switch should be necessary. If there is, I would probably consider having one put in my Taboo.  

I can imagine that the type of can one is listening to (Audez'e LCD-2 for me and a couple of others) could also make a difference. Different cans present different loads.

But I would like to know the outcome.
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Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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Don W
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Posts: 58
Re: Headphones different without speakers connected
Reply #7 - 01/06/12 at 18:54:53
 
Hmm. I have Audeze LCD-2s too. I considered the effect of speaker sound coming through the headphones. But the difference is just too great to be explained by that. For one thing, it is much louder with the speakers disconnected. But also, the tonal difference is far from subtle. Unplugging the speakers introduces new highs especially, as well as a very distinct difference in the way it is presented. Much sharper, less musical. With the speakers there is more base and the tone smooths out and becomes fuller. Some of this could be attributed to the speakers themselves, but the difference is just too pronounced and the speaker volumn is not high enough to make as much of a difference that I hear. It really is very, very different.

I wonder if having a pre-amp in front of the Taboo would have an effect here. I don't have a pre-amp, so my interconnects are connected to outer set of connectors, which has an effect on the route the signal takes.

Now I'd really be intereseted in what Steve says about this.
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Decware: Taboo, CSP2+, Mini-Torii, MG944, ERR, Zen Styx, DSR-II interconnects, DHC-1 power cables. Other: Audeze LCD-3 w/ Q cables, EE Mini-Max DAC Plus, Audio-gd SA-1 DAC, Audio-gd DI-DSP USB to Coaxial converter. Homemade PC with JRiver Media Center.
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Pale Rider
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Re: Headphones different without speakers connected
Reply #8 - 01/06/12 at 20:13:56
 
Don wrote, among other things:

Quote:
Now I'd really be intereseted in what Steve says about this


You and me both. I do wonder about the preamp issue, because I  have the Ultra in front of mine. Previously, I had a ZSTAGE in front of my Taboo, but not during break-in.
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Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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Rivieraranch
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Posts: 1274
Re: Headphones different without speakers connected
Reply #9 - 01/07/12 at 01:44:35
 
I fear that the use of the TABOO with headphones is not widespread at this time. I recall Steve mentioning that you could remove the speaker wires and put a resistor across the speaker terminals.

Maybe it is better just to use the headphones with the speakers playing at low volume.
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DECWARE CSP2+, TABOO MK III; SE84CKC; HR1; TRAPEZIUM DESKTOP SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 turntable; Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CD player; MARANTZ 2226B, 2216B receivers; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
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Don W
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Posts: 58
Re: Headphones different without speakers connected
Reply #10 - 01/07/12 at 02:36:33
 
Rivieraranch are you going to pick up a pair of LCD-2's to go with the Taboo? I ask because I notice that you have Senns right now and you know that the Taboo isn't really meant for higher impedance phones - the CSP2+ is the recommended match for them.
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Decware: Taboo, CSP2+, Mini-Torii, MG944, ERR, Zen Styx, DSR-II interconnects, DHC-1 power cables. Other: Audeze LCD-3 w/ Q cables, EE Mini-Max DAC Plus, Audio-gd SA-1 DAC, Audio-gd DI-DSP USB to Coaxial converter. Homemade PC with JRiver Media Center.
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Rivieraranch
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Posts: 1274
Re: Headphones different without speakers connected
Reply #11 - 01/07/12 at 03:02:22
 
I'm hunting down a pair of GRADOS probably SR80i. Steve told me that the TABOO will "drive the s * * t out of them."
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« Last Edit: 01/07/12 at 03:02:57 by Rivieraranch »  

DECWARE CSP2+, TABOO MK III; SE84CKC; HR1; TRAPEZIUM DESKTOP SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 turntable; Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CD player; MARANTZ 2226B, 2216B receivers; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
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clowkoy
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Re: Headphones different without speakers connected
Reply #12 - 01/08/12 at 18:10:50
 
My Taboo was ordered with a headphone jack installed on the front (on the wood- another $100 extra). With only the headphones connected, the Lucid mode switch has a different effect on the phones than on the speaker, turning it off would produce a mono sound. I think Steve mentions this on the product page.
I am mainly using my Taboo now as a speaker amp until my 84c+ arrives.
BTW, my phones are the LCD-2 rev1.
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« Last Edit: 01/08/12 at 18:12:16 by clowkoy »  
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Don W
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Posts: 58
Re: Headphones different without speakers connected
Reply #13 - 01/08/12 at 18:57:24
 
The headphones sound different without speakers connected whether or not lucid mode is on.
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Decware: Taboo, CSP2+, Mini-Torii, MG944, ERR, Zen Styx, DSR-II interconnects, DHC-1 power cables. Other: Audeze LCD-3 w/ Q cables, EE Mini-Max DAC Plus, Audio-gd SA-1 DAC, Audio-gd DI-DSP USB to Coaxial converter. Homemade PC with JRiver Media Center.
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Rivieraranch
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Posts: 1274
Re: Headphones different without speakers connected
Reply #14 - 01/08/12 at 22:27:54
 
I'm going to have my headphone jack installed out back rather than to poke a hole through the front of the wood base.
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DECWARE CSP2+, TABOO MK III; SE84CKC; HR1; TRAPEZIUM DESKTOP SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 turntable; Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CD player; MARANTZ 2226B, 2216B receivers; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
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