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Which Zen for Klipsch or any hon speakers? (Read 4607 times)
KM
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Which Zen for Klipsch or any hon speakers?
10/22/11 at 02:41:40
 
Wondering what Klipsch owners or any horn, hi-sensitive (95-112 dB)speakers are choosing from Decware an what are the impressions and comparisons?

As example: which one has more "juice" /power/dynamics to play rock
or
which one better suitable to clasiscs or jazz
or
if there one that can do it all?
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Donnie
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Re: Which Zen for Klipsch or any hon speakers?
Reply #1 - 10/22/11 at 02:50:49
 
Just buy a Torii MKIII and you will never have any reason to say "I wish I had bought ....." Start at the top, never look back. It only costs a nickle more to go first class.
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Lon
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Re: Which Zen for Klipsch or any hon speakers?
Reply #2 - 10/22/11 at 15:37:27
 
Well, what Donnie says is true indeed. However, aren't these horn speakers quite efficient?  You should be able to get really good volume out of lower powered amps, and as a result you may wish to consider one of the single-ended amps Decware offers, such as the Integrated, or the Select, unless you listen in a cavernous room you should be able to really enjoy the 'magic' these smaller amps can really deliver. Or if you really want to have headroom to spare for the future, consider the original Torii that Jason is selling in the Classifieds section. Lots of choices with those speakers I would think. I've never owned Klipsch before, and haven't been too impressed with the examples I've heard, but that's because, I think, they were run with solid state Japanese receivers. . . .

I'm sure others here can and will weigh in with advice from direct experience.
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stevef
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Re: Which Zen for Klipsch or any hon speakers?
Reply #3 - 10/24/11 at 18:51:46
 
I just heard a K-horn with a 2 wpc Decware amp ( an original SE-84C gray chassis ) along with a TS preamp using a cheap Sony DVD player as a source.  Very nice and enough power for jazz, classical, and rock except for metal at ear splitting levels. So any Decware amp will work.  And yes this is an audiophile quality system.

Steve
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busterfree
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Re: Which Zen for Klipsch or any hon speakers?
Reply #4 - 10/25/11 at 21:31:08
 
I think any of the Decware amps would be fine. How loud are looking to play music? How big is your listening room? I think those are a couple of key questions.

The Mini Torii and the Torii MKiii are great choices, but I have no personal experience with them.

I have an SE84C+ that I using with some Decware speakers, but I have tried the amp on my Klipsch Forte II and RB-81 speakers with great results.
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ski bum
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Re: Which Zen for Klipsch or any hon speakers?
Reply #5 - 10/26/11 at 01:27:44
 
For sound quality, any of them will do.  They're all excellent.

If you have the sensitivity to get away with the low power, then go with the Zen Select monoblocks.

The main thing to consider is that Decware amps do hum to some extent, and the more sensitive your speakers, the further from them that hum will be perceptible.  Steve does a good job of explicitly stating the hum/noise numbers for his amps.  Pay close attention to that number if you're using speakers of >100db/w sensitivity.

The SE84C+ and SE34i are given as <1.5 mv.  The Zen Select Mono versions are lower at 1.1.  Mini Torii is much less at 0.5.  The Torii III is given as -90db, which is also pretty darn low.  So based on this factor alone, the Mini Torii and it's big brother would be the best choices.  (Both the mini and the big Torii are qualitiatively different, if ever so slightly, from the SE84 based amps, and IMHO the zen select monos are the pinnacle of that branch of the family, and arguably of Decware's whole historic approach to audio.  The ZS Monos are top notch, with SET magic in spades; fast, crystal clear, emtionally engaging-and that's putting it mildly, the music literally reaches out and grabs you.)

Personally, when it comes to the hum issue, I cheat.  I primarily use my Decware amps (a pair of SE84C+, bridged) in bi-amp configuration driving the horns of my Klipsch speakers.  No hum whatsoever, as it's completely filtered out.  No restrictions on dynamics.  The system simply rocks!

KM, I have experiece w/ forte ll and 'Scalas, and for both I would give Decware the thumbs up, with caveats.  What are you using?

Oh, and welcome to the forum!     
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« Last Edit: 10/29/11 at 17:08:19 by ski bum »  
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KM
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Re: Which Zen for Klipsch or any hon speakers?
Reply #6 - 11/04/11 at 02:43:51
 
Thanks everyone and 'ski bum' in particular.
I am using KLF-20 with 100 dB sensitivity. Tried those for bi-amping with SS good sounding amp, but bi-amping sound wasn't so great.
Also heard La-Scala with some 300B chineese monos ( very rare - don't remember name), but it was also some audible noise.

May be hum comes also mostly from preamp? It was confirmed by Needledoctor specialist whom I talked today as a feedback from cart, T/table & phonostage. Looks like there is no or hard to find phonostage that gives zero feedback. only then we can figure out how quiet are amps ( as am listening mostly vinyls, not CDs...) So, wondering for Decware LP listneres - with horn speakers, how you are dealing with hum and how you are tweeking your preamps?
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« Last Edit: 11/04/11 at 02:45:04 by KM »  
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ski bum
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Re: Which Zen for Klipsch or any hon speakers?
Reply #7 - 11/04/11 at 21:50:20
 
Single ended amps can made to be pretty quiet, but getting them quiet will cost you.  That goes for Steve's amps or any other make.  Since I have no problems with my ~99db/w fortes with Decware's noisiest amps, you should be ok with your KLF 20s with whatever you choose.

I would suggest that if you go with one of the smaller Decware amps that you continue to experiment with bi-amping.  While less etched and edgy than ss, the Klipsch response is undeniably tipped up with the SE84's driving full range signal.  You can address that (and eliminate hum) by bi-amping.  Is it worth it?  I'd say yes.

Then again, a Torii has better damping than the SE84s, and so presumably would be less reactive into Klipsch's weird impedance load.  I know it's voiced to be SET-like, but I don't quite know how that would translate with the Klipsch.  Even if the response is tipped up a la the smaller offerings, the Torii has the quite useful treble trim, the power to go as loud as you need (25 watts through KLF 20s will blow you away), and runs dead quiet.  

I would very much like to know how the Torii's unconventional bass control would play with Klipsch (seems it is more aimed at directly connected full range drivers, not necessarily a speaker with passive crossover parts in between).  

Steve?  Anyone else have any comments on this?  

   

I can't help much with vinyl problems.  I use an old Kenwood turntable, shure cartridge, aligned as good as I can get it, with the whole shebang mounted on an isolated granite platform, and using the phono stage in an old NAD pre-amp.  Pretty far from a referene vinyl rig, but it works ok and is very quiet.  Record surface noise is more noticable than any amp hum in my system.  I rarely spin the vinyl any more, digi is just so much more convenient, with a dead silent background, and less flippin busywork involved.
 

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Dave Evans
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Re: Which Zen for Klipsch or any hon speakers?
Reply #8 - 11/04/11 at 22:09:09
 
Hi Km, I drive a pair of Avantgarde Uno's (100db) in a room approx 10x6 mtrs with an EL84C at reasonable levels with no hum at all, I use an Audio note M2 pre, it's only when I wind the the volume up to silly levels with no signal can I hear a very slight hum.
I have been searching this site with a view to upgrade my amp to the EL84C+ but not sure what to do yet, all I can say is I have tried several other amps and this amp is the best I have tried with my speakers both for the music it makes, and as as said it's very quiet,
Living in the uk it's the only Decware amp i've heard but I have no desire to look at any others in the range.

Regards Dave
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Lon
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Re: Which Zen for Klipsch or any hon speakers?
Reply #9 - 11/04/11 at 23:02:46
 
I want to add that I was happy to hear the treble-cut mentioned in regards to the Torii Mk III. I have that on my Torii Mk III, on my Torii Mk II and on an SE24I.2 that is now in transit to another poster here. I'm a huge fan of the circuit, and when I inquired about it initially for my Integrated Steve mentioned that it was available on any amp. I hope that's a correct memory. A fantastic tool!
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Lon
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Re: Which Zen for Klipsch or any hon speakers?
Reply #10 - 11/04/11 at 23:05:01
 
Dave: Welcome! Good to hear that your amp and your spakers are working so well. That's really the secret I think or at least after a great source that's the foundation. If you're happy, if they work together so well, hang tight! At least until you can find an audition of another amp or speaker that knocks you flat.

Welcome to the forum and if you're so inclined, share your observations with us.
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Dave Evans
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Re: Which Zen for Klipsch or any hon speakers?
Reply #11 - 11/05/11 at 11:17:25
 
Hi Lon, thank you for the warm welcome, I have spent many hours here recently and read most of your posts and like reading all of the guys that contribute in the "whats spinning" forum,
My reply to KM was in fact not my first as I did post a handfull of times several years ago in the old forum when the likes of Elli Duttman was prominent, but due to health problems never lost my interest in music but I have been off the hifi scene in recent years, my health by the way is now improving by the week.


Thanks again, Dave
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Lon
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Re: Which Zen for Klipsch or any hon speakers?
Reply #12 - 11/05/11 at 14:10:53
 
Dave, those were the days. Eli sure was a great presence here. So happy to hear that your health has been improving!
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ski bum
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Re: Which Zen for Klipsch or any hon speakers?
Reply #13 - 11/05/11 at 19:03:23
 
Ok, so this thread got me to try something I haven't so far, bi-amping with all Decware amps...a mere 2 watts for the lows...the full tube effect, on the whole freq range, and it's good...not as powerful as when amps bridged by a notable margin, but I haven't clipped 'em yet; I'll play some of that bombastic long-hair music (Beethoven, Mahler, etc.) and see how they do...hope the neighbors like Mahler, here goes!

KM, if your still tuning in, the thought that keeps crossing my mind as I'm playing around with this is "Torii".  I'm experiencing some magical music, but I'm taking the little SE84s right to their limits, and thats with the benefit of a rather small listening room.
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« Last Edit: 11/06/11 at 16:24:39 by ski bum »  
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