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USB Power (Read 4668 times)
Pix
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USB Power
09/29/11 at 00:14:01
 
Greetings,
After much searching around on this forum and others I have not been able to find an answer to the following issue...
I have recently become addicted to the audiophile world and realize that there are many issues that can affect the sound you end up hearing. One objective is to remove sources of interference that do/can damage the purity of the audio signal. I've been considering which USB cable I should use with my ZDAC. Many people talk about improved sound using cables that separate the power from the data lines. That makes sense to me.
But here's what I don't understand... The ZDAC has its own power supply. Therefore, why not use a USB cable (if one exists) that delivers high quality data streaming only i.e. Has no power transmission capability? In other words keep as much power interference from one's computer out of the ZDAC as possible. Is there some kind of timing signal that comes down the usb power wires?
Thoughts and explanations would be most welcome.
Many thanks,
Pix
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will
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Re: USB Power
Reply #1 - 10/01/11 at 01:31:36
 
Pix,

I too have been watching for a reply on your question. I don't know the answer, but a couple things occur to me. One, I can definitely hear different USB cables in my system, and even through a Music Fidelity V-Link where some say Async eliminates the cable issues. The other thing that occurs to me is that the tricked out USB cables I have seen, none are configured without power, so I guess it has some relevance.

Have you checked out this USB power thingy? http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=97076.0.

And this is an interesting thread to wade through with the occasional really useful bit of info or link.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=74816.900

Good Luck!
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Pix
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Re: USB Power
Reply #2 - 10/03/11 at 18:11:55
 
Hi Will
Thanks for your  reply and glad to know I'm not the only one with this question. Good to "meet you" online. If you will be at the DecFest this year I hope to catch up with you in person.
Perhaps we could get Steve to weigh in on this question too. My rather crude thought perhaps is to do the following - take a USB cable and cut the power channels guaranteeing no computer power to the ZDAC - it doesn't seem to need these. My concern is that this approach might upset the ZDAC in some way.
I'll look into the audiocircle link you sent as well. Many thanks.
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will
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Re: USB Power
Reply #3 - 10/03/11 at 19:35:37
 
Hey Pix, I am glad you are going to the Decfest and hope you will post information you come up with from conversing with Steve. Long way for me from New Mexico to Illinois, so I will stay home and listen here!

I am burning in and adapting the system/room to some really nice stuff. A Tranquility DAC, and some HR-1 speakers from Bob Ziegler (ZYGI). I was using MG944s and a V-Link/ZDAC/ZSTAGE after the Mini in my main system....a very good place to start...and though I have not AB'd much yet, it looks at this point like both the HR-1s and the Tranquility are bringing very good stuff to the sound!
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Lon
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Re: USB Power
Reply #4 - 10/03/11 at 20:09:19
 
Wow HR-1s. Great speakers. I think I prefer the ERR but it's just a matter of preference for the more complete radial dispersion in my largest listening space. The HR-1s sound great in my bedroom. Congrats!
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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will
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Re: USB Power
Reply #5 - 10/04/11 at 06:07:09
 
Thanks Lon. Yes, the HR-1s are an nice speaker. I have never used a radial, but the more I talked to Bob about it, the more interested I became. And since I was very happy with my front firing MG944s, the hybrid radial/front driver HR-1 made sense for me. Especially considering after many years of development Bob had made further refinements to the design and implementation that really intrigued and satisfied him, a couple of which, first on my speakers! I love how Bob and Steve are never "done", always looking for and finding improvements.

At first I wondered if I liked the radial effect. In my relatively live space, and after the MG944 front firing setup, it was a little confusing. But at the same time it was compelling, especially since the radial used is such a sweet sounding driver, and what it did with drum's and piano's top projecting sounds I really liked.

Then with some placement adjustments and room treatment refinement, and probably most important, some pretty intense break in time, I started "getting" the hybrid sound more and more.

It is a beautiful sounding speaker, and with the rather amazing balance between the radial and front mid and tweeter drivers (that must have been loads of trial and error to sort out), I think am hearing more organic, earthy detail (I have not AB'd yet, so going from memory). Somehow with the dispersion from the radial driver, and its sweetness and smoothness, the exceptional detail is really friendly.

In this space the sound stage seems perhaps a little wider and taller than the very good MG sound stage, but what is interesting is the instrument zone articulation. With that magical radial detail, the sound stage saturation is similar to the MGs, but it too is somehow more "organic" with close ambient information and micro detail in and around the instrument, while at the same time having a nicely blended sound stage..... I have not quite gotten a handle on it, but I am intrigued by the radial addition to the game.

So I am having fun.


Wink
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Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, modded Oppo 83, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab feet and tube dampers
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Lon
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Re: USB Power
Reply #6 - 10/04/11 at 12:23:21
 
******(Material deleted by Lon)

I think once you get used to the HR-1s that the ERR would blow your mind! After living with my RL-1s and RL-2s for so many years, the full radial dispersion that the ERRs give is just totally the cat's meow for me, and the most accurate reproduction of a live music event I've heard. I love mine, plain and simply. Can't wait to hear how they might sound with grilles in place. Maybe one day. I'm trying to be quiet and patient.
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« Last Edit: 10/04/11 at 22:51:04 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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will
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Re: USB Power
Reply #7 - 10/04/11 at 16:47:58
 
Quote:
Personally, I really don't like the way Steve and Bob are changing things on models. You buy something then read a year later that the same model has killer new features like bass knobs or different op amps, etc. What?  Rather disconcerting and in a little way you feel cheated of the goodies that later adopters get. Chaps my hide a bit.


Lon, I get your sentiment, but I think that change is a fundamental outcome from creative work, and the only way to realize anything near the greatest potential. Seems to be nature. The more we learn, the more we see, and the more we see, the more we can learn. Be it in audio gear, or art, or auto mechanics, or spiritual/emotional practice...whatever.... positive innovation and change seems to be the objective to me.

Without this artistic thirst for better sound and ways to bring it into reality, the Hazen Grid mod in your SE34 or Torii would not exist, the Torii MkIII would be the original Torii, the progression from Rl-1, RL-2, and finally to the latest, the ERR would not have happened. And I would not be surprised if there weren't some refinements in your ERRs over the original ERRs, but couldn't say for sure.

So I see creative innovation and change as inevitable in a healthy process. And when these guys break through to something they like better, those who get the innovation, in most cases, get to better enjoy the music. And equally important, it facilitates the maker/designer staying excited enough to keep exploring better ways.

Also with the same basic model, there is always the option to have the mod put in or to put it in yourself. And who knows, you may not agree. I updated my MGs to Bob's latest coil, cap, and damping foam standard and though they sounded great...very accurate, I ended up preferring somewhere in the middle between what I had and how the newest 944s were being shipped at the time. On the other hand, had that been the speaker I got, I would have been very happy.

And this brings up the other amazing thing about working with Steve or Bob, and several others out there like PI audio, DbAudio and more.....the guys are so into it, they want to help us be more into it and are willing and interested in helping us do it with their excellent advice and technical expertise.

I think we are part of a brave new world of marketing with very high quality at reasonable prices thanks to these folks, to forums, and the internet access.

Smiley
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« Last Edit: 10/04/11 at 16:50:20 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, modded Oppo 83, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab feet and tube dampers
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Lon
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Re: USB Power
Reply #8 - 10/04/11 at 16:56:07
 
******(Material deleted by Lon)


Glad you're enjoying the HR-1s. I'm glad I have mine, but to me the real jewel is the ERR! That's a triumph.
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« Last Edit: 10/04/11 at 22:50:27 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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will
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Re: USB Power
Reply #9 - 10/04/11 at 18:24:13
 
Yes, I see it. All good points. And I hope you can get some good salve for the chapping, or you won't be able to sit in the sweet seat and get seduced by beautiful music!

Wink

But this is the way corporate folks run things too and it is typically a distinctly less innovative environment that tends to result. Pluses and minuses both ways.

I am with you on the buy local thing too. I buy everything I can from good local businesses and as little as I can from most big corporate chains. We will even go so far as to call the local used book stores first before buying from ABE.com if the library does not have a book. But then ABE is good too...a consortium of independent book sellers.

Unfortunately, there are many things I just can't get locally, or for some specialty stuff like good audio, to get what I have would cost double or more, in part to support the brick and mortar setup, and in part to support the big companies they tend to carry with all their advertising and inefficient corporate methods.

So I think there is a lot of room for responsible net shopping. And there too, I prefer innovators to the big guys in most cases. And when I think about it, these guys like Decware are very efficient and earth friendly businesses, working small and without waste, and their "local" economy is national and worldwide due to the net. Without the internet, they could not make it with the prices they are offering, and very possibly, could not make it at all. Like everything else, the net thing seems to all be double sided. If good people do good things with it, it is good, and if exploiters do bad things with it, it is bad.

As to the ERRs, I had that choice, but for my use and preferences the hybrid made more sense, even costing more. And from my listening so far, I am glad I made that choice. I like the radial driver a lot, their speed, sound and dispersion. But I also like the MG944s front firing sound a lot. And the radial benefit to the arrangement has distinct beauty, but is also a bit of challenge to get a handle on when I was accustomed to the pinpoint/airy articulation of the front firing MGs.

Both qualities have benefits in my room/system, and I guess it is all dependent on that "the room is 40% of the sound" thing. So the ERRs might blow my mind, but they may be better in your room than mine, and the hybrid, and how I am interpreting its presentation seems quite good here on first impressions. I have only had them several weeks though, so I am still adjusting, and they are still waking up!

Roll Eyes
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« Last Edit: 10/04/11 at 18:26:18 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, modded Oppo 83, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab feet and tube dampers
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Lon
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Re: USB Power
Reply #10 - 10/04/11 at 18:44:24
 
******(Material deleted by Lon)

I've had the HR-1 and ERRs now in three rooms each for spells of time. Yeah, you MAY prefer the HR-1s but. . . you may be missing out on the ERRs being your best choice. I think you should have both. Smiley

Anyway, I may be going to scale back my involvement in posting thoughts and opinons here a bit (though I may be posting items in the Classifieds). I just prattle on and on and I'm sure it must be annoying. Anyone who misses me can always email me or PM me. Enjoy the sound cats and kittens!
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« Last Edit: 10/04/11 at 22:51:37 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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will
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Re: USB Power
Reply #11 - 10/04/11 at 19:26:39
 
Quote:
Yeah, you MAY prefer the HR-1s but. . . you may be missing out on the ERRs being your best choice. I think you should have both.


Sounds fun! Maybe some day I will have the space!

And don't be too scarce Lon!

Wink
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will
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Re: USB Power
Reply #12 - 10/04/11 at 20:45:14
 
Quote:
I still think that Decware is making a mistake with this constant dickering with released products. My opinion of Decware as a business falters when they do that. They can still innovate and consolidate innovation in new products.


As I look at it, I am not altogether sure this is happening all that rapidly. It has been several years since your "Retail Radials" shifted to the now HR-1s. And the Torii, how long did we have our MkIIIs before the bass knobs were introduced? I guess more than a year, but I am not too good on time. And this innovation was very likely based in Steve's refining this breakthrough approach to push-pull, and the consistency of some customer's issues with bass. So it seems to me to be still part of an ongoing design improvement for Steve's innovative approaches used in this very impressive amp, but also, fairly methodical and done over a fairly long time.

So I get your points, but also, if you chose, you could do like I did, and set up an "appointment" to have your amp modded to the level of the current "Torii" and still come in considerably less than folks buying it at the new price and probably in not too long a time. That is, if you wanted to. On the other hand, the bass knob is a tricky thing for me, and I am glad I got it, but compared to what mine sounded like without it (very good) I find it more a tweaking refinement that is useful and fun, but not necessarily "a must.". So really it may not be for you since you are trying to avoid "futzing."

But if you wanted to go for it, just think what the SE34 and CSP would sound like in your main system for a few weeks! That could be fun. No???

Smiley
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Lon
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Re: USB Power
Reply #13 - 10/04/11 at 21:28:19
 
******(Material deleted by Lon)
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« Last Edit: 10/04/11 at 22:52:39 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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will
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Re: USB Power
Reply #14 - 10/04/11 at 22:50:00
 
I think Decware should heavily prioritize active customers with warranty work and upgrades too. And I think they try to do this, but sometimes could do better.

And the bass knobs are cool. To me they seem to act in millisecond, minor power hits to the drivers.... harder or softer, and this loosens/opens, or tightens the sound. And not just the bass, though that is where it is most obvious.

But it is not at all the normal bass knob we are used to. It does not increase or decrease bass per se. More it tightens or loosens the sound. And it is a very nice tool, but I can't say that my bass is better with it than it was before it, just different, and with added sound tailoring flexibility. I am guessing this is because Steve tuned the amp for the most real sounding bass before the knobs and he is obviously good at this tuning.

But then, I have had bass tailoring tools with room treatments, speaker tweaks,  and excellent sounding EQ from my computer music player, Pure Music, so I can surgically influence stuff my room/system can't deal with.

Whoa.....talk about off topic!
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« Last Edit: 10/04/11 at 23:09:36 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, modded Oppo 83, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab feet and tube dampers
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Lon
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"Love without
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Re: USB Power
Reply #15 - 10/04/11 at 22:55:00
 
I haven't been happy with what I posted today since I posted it and haven't been feeling very accurate in my writings today so I deleted a lot of it.

Thanks for bearing with me on this will et al.

I do think that the bass knobs would be a very useful tool for me, I understand how they work. Maybe one day. Eveyone have a great week!
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« Last Edit: 10/04/11 at 23:11:38 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Pix
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Re: USB Power
Reply #16 - 10/07/11 at 03:57:43
 
Hi Gents
Just a respectful request to stay on topic.
Many thanks
Pix
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will
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Re: USB Power
Reply #17 - 10/07/11 at 06:20:28
 
Pix, Right you are. Sorry
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