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I've commited haresy (Read 2437 times)
Donnie
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I've commited haresy
09/27/11 at 23:30:30
 
Last weekend I went and saw a friend's band play at a local bar. First of all getting me in a bar was a big event, I'm not exactly a drinker, water is about all I drink anymore. Anyway, the band was a bunch of guys that have been playing for the last 30 to 40 years, pros to semi-pros. Not too bad of a cover band. Well when I got home and started up my Torii, it sounded like shit in comparison to the live music. None of the percussave bass that slaps you in the chest. This is where I went off the rails. I went out in my garage and dug out a JBL sub that I had used on a old surround sound project 20 years ago. I hooked it up to my Torii, plugged it in and Wham, there was what I was looking for. I know that I'm supposed to like the bass from my MG944's but now this thing just rocks. I know that the bass is turned up way too far, but it now sounds "right" to me. So where do I go from here? I'm thinking a House Wrecker or even Imperial SO's. I've got the room, I'm pretty sure that I have the cash, I've spent the last 30 years making things down to the .0001". What should I make or buy to put the thump in my music?
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stevef
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Re: I've commited haresy
Reply #1 - 09/27/11 at 23:48:18
 
No you haven't committed heresy.  That would take a Klipsch speaker of the same name.  You want volume and impact? Horns, big ones. Imperials or PI speakers.

Steve F
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Lon
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Re: I've commited haresy
Reply #2 - 09/28/11 at 00:07:00
 
Donnie, if you dig deep into the forum you'll see posts by Randy about the Imperials and what it did to his listening. I think the Imperials would be the cat's meow for you. Maybe even for me one day. Smiley
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Pale Rider
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Re: I've commited haresy
Reply #3 - 09/28/11 at 01:00:58
 
I absolutely love my ERRs. No news there. But there is a reason Bob is building me two DBK212s.
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Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
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Chris K
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My owner only hears
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Re: I've commited haresy
Reply #4 - 09/28/11 at 01:03:11
 
I have Randy's homebuilt Decware Imperial SO Subs.
Bought them and still have not got a room big enough or bought a new house with enough room.
Donnie you want them?
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« Last Edit: 09/28/11 at 01:04:59 by Chris K »  

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stone_of_tone
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Re: I've commited haresy
Reply #5 - 09/28/11 at 04:23:56
 
Nope, no haresy Donnie. However, I do keep a pair of Etymotic Research Ear Plugs on my key chain for live events like you recently attended. I did attend Dave Koz, U2 and SADE this summer without having to put the the Etymotic's in. Bar bands coming up this winter? The plugs always need to go in!

Like Chris K stated, don't go to big at home. I picked up a pair of Polk SDA 1's, powered by a Emotiva 300 watt per channel amp (coming). The speaks come alive at 300 per channel and can handle up to 500 per ch.

However, my Zen Select is more musical at 76 to 94 db SPL any day of the week! BUT, somtimes when the Hair of the DOG has to go down....the Vintage SDA's from 1985 get fired up! I look forward to my Torii III coming to try on these guys.

Stone of Tone (for tone & timbre of Decware Amps and Homage to the late great Harvey "Gizmo" Rosenberg-The Techno Shamen.)
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« Last Edit: 09/28/11 at 04:42:28 by stone_of_tone »  

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stone_of_tone
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Re: I've commited haresy
Reply #6 - 09/28/11 at 06:13:32
 
http://meta-gizmo.net/Tri/adv/STONEO_TONE.html

Harvey was to cool man.  Lars

This means that if you don't have righteous tone, you have nada, zip, zilch. If you have the widest stereo image, have woodifying micro-dynamics, and whopper size bass…none of this matters, if you don't have natural tone.

Do you get it? Get tone right first, even if you have to sacrifice other values…which explains why Japanese audiomaniac culture obsesses over tone, their "compass in the audio storm, and I subtitled my first book about tube circuits…"Natural Harmonics Audio".

Here is, my beloved bros', a beautiful Haykoo* poem I wrote in your honor:..................... .

dive in to the thread, and "stay thirsty my friends"!

Stone of Tone

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« Last Edit: 09/28/11 at 06:19:46 by stone_of_tone »  

Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
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Chris K
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My owner only hears
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hear to 60K!

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Re: I've commited haresy
Reply #7 - 09/29/11 at 00:33:39
 
Actually Stone these Imperials did sound incredible to all of the DecFest attendees in Oct 2005 in Steve Deckert's modest sized garage listening room. It was the first DecFest room. The Imperials are quite subtle for deep bass and need very little wattage to huff out some of what was termed "subterranean" bass from a single Decware Select amp. My problem is the physical size is just not allowing me any option in this twinplex we live in. We occupy both sides but any way you slice it the rooms are just a wee bit too small to arrange the audio furnishings if you will. I will hook them up when I get the room if I still have them by then. 2 years ago when I picked them up from Randy we were looking for a house. And guess what? We're still looking! Shocked
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stone_of_tone
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Re: I've commited haresy
Reply #8 - 09/29/11 at 01:29:20
 
Chris, I only meant the size as well. I was there in 2005 an heard them  too. "Subterranean" is a good way to describe them. Plus, clean and pure with integration. I envy the fact your wife is giving you a shot at accommodating them at your future house if you keep them.

Stone of Tone
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« Last Edit: 09/29/11 at 01:34:49 by stone_of_tone »  

Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
360 degree Rm Treats
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Donnie
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Why does it hurt
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Re: I've commited haresy
Reply #9 - 09/29/11 at 01:53:34
 
Well, I was all fired up today. I figured that I would build myself a Imperial SO. Hey why not, I've made all kinds of things in my life as a tool maker and pattern maker.
Well, when I got home tonight guess what? My ZDAC had died again!
I'm too depressed to think about building anything right now. Just when I thought everything was working my way, Oh well.....
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Lon
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Re: I've commited haresy
Reply #10 - 09/29/11 at 02:18:09
 
Good Lord Donnie! I'm sorry to hear that. I hope it will resurrect again. Time to call Steve!
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stevef
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Re: I've commited haresy
Reply #11 - 10/01/11 at 02:31:06
 
I doubt that Imperial subs along with typical audiophile speakers will solve the live sound issue. To get real impact requires horns. Full range.  Yes they need a lot of room.  Even folded corner horns take up a lot of space. Then there's the matter of enough amplifier power. Even if it sounds great, the risk of hearing damage goes way up.

Steve
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Donnie
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Why does it hurt
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Re: I've commited haresy
Reply #12 - 10/30/11 at 01:40:17
 
I've been putting in a little thought into my original problem of wanting/needing more bass.
If I went with a Imperial how would I power it and how would I manage the bass?
How much power would I need? I've always been of the mind that too much of anything is just a little shy of what I wanted.
I'm lucky in the fact that my listening room has some built in cabinets that were built around a refrigerator, sounds like a perfect place for a Imperial SO.
Today I dragged my Onkyo TX-DS989 in from the garage and hooked it up as a pre-amp between my Ipod-Wadia and my Torii. I'm using it mostly as a DAC because I'm still too depressed to look at my dead  ZDAC-1.
Anyway I guess I could use it for bass managment or even as a sub amp. The main problem with this is that it really sounds like crap. And I also like to use it in my garage to annoy my neighbors  by playing "Father Rapin' " music. A guy has to have hobbies.
The JBL sub I am currently using sounds a lot like the one that the kid up the road has in his Honda Civic, you know one with a "Fart Can" exaust, kind of one note thumpin'.
When did it become "cool" for a young guy to drive a 4 door Civic? Maybe about the same time that it became "uncool" to work on your own car, I'm kind of rambling now.
I guess I have the Subterranean Bass Homesick Blues.
How do I get from here to where I want to be?
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dank
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Re: I've commited haresy
Reply #13 - 10/30/11 at 14:04:36
 
Donnie

I've tried a lot of subs (including Imperial and Imperiam SO) and have always come back to a simple ported box, fired into the corner, powered by a Dayton plate amp.  http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-805
My room just seems to load real well when thr sub is placed in the corner, pointed in.  Now I'm running a 15" Dayton Series II speaker http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-130 in a cube box about 2' on each side into one corner (had one in each corner, sold one - will replace it soon).  The 8 ohm Series II lets me run a pair off the one plate amp - more bass than I ever need.  I see the plate amp is on sale now - good deal - can't go wrong.  I just connect to the speaker level connections -works well for me.

Dan
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Pale Rider
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Re: I've commited haresy
Reply #14 - 10/30/11 at 17:09:17
 
Hey Donnie, I know what you mean. I am still quite happy with the bass output of my ERRs. They sound excellent. But on certain classical recordings, e.g., Bach organ works, and obviously on some well-mixed 5.1 music discs such as the AIX Blu-Ray discs, there is a slight lack of weight in the very lowest registers. Bob is going to build me a pair of DBK212 subs. I will drive them with a Carver M1.5T, and I will use a Paradigm X-30 subwoofer control unit to control the sound. This will all be for 5.1. Although I am not a big fan of all the LFE garbage in so many movies, there are occasional movies (Inception, the rerelease of Jurassic Park, and several of the Marvel Comics franchise, and others) where the LFE contribute favorably. I do not anticipate running the subs with the two-channel output from the PerfectWave DAC/Bridge.
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Lon
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Re: I've commited haresy
Reply #15 - 10/30/11 at 23:45:39
 
Donnie I really don't have any first or even second hand experience with the Imperials. But I did have a dream about them once and they sounded really good, they were playing at an outdoor party. What was really happening I think that in my dream they were taking the place of speakers built in a similar manner by an organist friend of mine of the late seventies and early eighties, Frank Krenn. So a party back in time way before any Steve or Bob or Steve and Bob Imperials were about, courtesy of a dream. And shortly after that Randy received a pair and started chronicling the sound in his listening-room and my imagination took root, and I imagine these to be the ultimate solution of how to get bass in an optimal Decware system. In another home, I would definitely consider somehow having a pair. I'm not sure that the nearly eighty year old living room floor that I have in this house will allow me to use them in a liveable manner. I might be surprised though. If I were five times the builder that I am, there would be skeletons of ones in my garage. . . Smiley

Randy described the sound he heard really well, and it definitely sounded convincingly good to me. I began to imagine how a pair of those, a pair of ERRs or HR-1s, and a pair of the Zen Monoblocks would sound. I bet it sounds like a holographic musical heaven.
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Donnie
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Why does it hurt
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Re: I've commited haresy
Reply #16 - 10/31/11 at 23:56:09
 
I just keep looking at this hole in the wall down in my bunker thinking that a Imperial would just slot right into it. I'm also drawn to the House Wrecker if for nothing else than the cool name.
What I have now is sounding pretty damn good, but I'm getting antsy. I read about all of the cool stuff that everyone else has and it starts a "Stereo Envy" within me. I'm just like a junkie, give me more!
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