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JJ 6CA7s (Read 17994 times)
Lon
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Re: JJ 6CA7s
Reply #60 - 01/25/12 at 23:48:59
 
No, I probably can't remember them all but I've tried:

Sylvania 6DJ8, Sylvania 6922
Seimens 6922
National 6922, National 6DJ8
RCA 6DJ8, RCA 6BQ7A (cryo'd)
Ruby 6922
JJ 6922
Philips 6922, Philips 6DJ8
IC 6922
EICO 6DJ8 (Mullard? Maybe)
Telefunken 6922
Svetlana 6N1P
Various other 6N1P from Russian factories (cryo'd and non-cryo'd)
6N2P from Russian factories
Electro Harmonix 6922 (cryo'd and non-cryo'd)

And other tubes that I couldn't specifically name at this time. I've done enough experimenting to realize that the 6N1P is the tube type to concentrate on.
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« Last Edit: 01/25/12 at 23:53:25 by Lon »  

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will
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Re: JJ 6CA7s
Reply #61 - 01/26/12 at 00:35:38
 
Thanks Lon. Wow, that is a pretty good test base of some pretty nice tubes to have used in your MKIII! And still the 6N1P rises up to the top! Sounds like an excellent foundation for your choice.

My system/room and taste, but n my case, I play with even more input tubes than your list, all NOS, with many of each 6922, 6DJ8, 7DJ8 and 6N23P (from pretty much the gamut of the better makers), and the 6N1P that came with my Torii is among my least favorite.

I do have a lot of choices in the other Torii tubes too though, and enjoy mixing and matching to bring out the best of given tube to suit me.

But this is interesting. I wonder if my 6N1Ps are just a weak pair, or if the cryo is that important in this case, or if it is all system/taste. I found these 6N1P nice in many ways, but less refined on overall balance and tonal values compared to most others I have that do all the good things the 6N1P does, but to me better. Better inner resolution, better texture, better balance, better bass definition, more refined timbre...........

I guess I need to try a pair of the super cryos! Just what i need, more tubes!!!! Wink
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« Last Edit: 01/26/12 at 00:37:28 by will »  

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Lon
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Re: JJ 6CA7s
Reply #62 - 01/26/12 at 03:06:17
 
I've tried 6N23P as well.

If you've only tried that one pair that came with your amp I'd say try at least another pair. I've found some wildly different 6N1Ps from ebay and online vendors. I'm using a triad of the regular cryo'd 6N1Ps from cryoset.com in my CSP2 and they're nice, different than the super-cryo'd ones.

The 6N1P helps me accomplish a goal I have of making as many of my recordings as possible come alive. Not just the "great sounding ones." I've come to the conclusion that this is the tube type fundamental to that end, it has the right characteristics for the broad range and scope of recordings in play. It's just a personal choice. I find it interesting that I discovered that it holds true for three machines for me: CSP2, Mk II and Mk III. If you're happy with those you're happy with no reason really to try, but if you've only heard that one pair of 6N1P tubes, well that's just one pair! Wink
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Morganc
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Re: JJ 6CA7s
Reply #63 - 01/26/12 at 06:41:28
 
Thanks Lon.   That is exactly my goal also!   I tuned my prior system to the point where the best recordings where chill bump inducing, but most did not sound good.   Now I just want as many types of music and as many types and qualities of recording to sound great.   I'll sacrifice amazing for the few for great for the majority!
 
I just ordered a pair from Cryoset....can't wait to break them in.

Cheers,
Morgan
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will
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Re: JJ 6CA7s
Reply #64 - 01/26/12 at 20:21:07
 
Interesting. I have shed a lot of recordings as I transitioned from LP, and later to computer, but still have some pretty bad recordings.

And my goal is also to have most recordings sound great, BUT ALSO to have the good recordings be "chill bump inducing." My system/room/tastes, but I don't feel like one has to necessarily sacrifice the other. Or am I misinterpreting.

More specifically, my objective is for the decent recordings to captivate me to a point of engrossment by a sense of realness in the beauty of the music. Along with this is the wonder at the magnificence of the presentation by my system/room........ a deep, wide, layered, saturated and spacious sound stage...amazing character of the instruments and voices solidified by the many shades of detail that create true timbre, textures, air,  body, and solid deep bass......... and these values carry me back to the wonder of the music.

I do have a lot of tubes to fine-tune with, and enjoy playing with this. And my good sounding room and system are diligently tuned to one another. But I get that  engrossing and awesome realness that convincingly places the player in the room, while still being able to enjoy listening to old Stanley Brothers, earlier Irish Traditional, Niel Young Harvest or Let it Be. But also, better quality, but pretty dense recordings like Patricia Barber Modern Cool or EST Seven Days of Falling with excellent sound stage, engaging spaciousness, and definition. Or recordings that can hurt if too bright like Archie Shepp True Ballads, or Sonny Rollins Sax Colossus... the horns in the face, but beautiful and strikingly real.

I do have to try the super Cryo 6N1Ps because Lon's  experience and suggestions tend to pan out well for me. And since I am already a lost in the tube wilderness whackjob, I should have a good example of the tube type anyway! I can imagine pretty easily how the cryo process could make a good 6N1P a nicely resolving tube.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts Morgan!
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will
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Re: JJ 6CA7s
Reply #65 - 01/28/12 at 16:46:01
 
Just a heads up. I just heard from Ron at cryoset.com that he now has cryo'd JJ6CA7s!
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« Last Edit: 01/28/12 at 16:46:37 by will »  

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Lon
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"Love without
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Re: JJ 6CA7s
Reply #66 - 09/04/12 at 16:31:36
 
Well, after about eleven months of use, I replaced my set with a new set. The vividness of the sound is back!

That's about par for the course for me, about a year's worth of use on power tubes. I run my amps about 12 to 18 hours a day, so really that's a lot of use, about 4380 to 6570 hours; I keep my Torii turned all the way up for the most part (controlled by either my PWD Mk II or my CSP2 or now CSP2+).
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Lon
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"Love without
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Posts: 7513
Re: JJ 6CA7s
Reply #67 - 02/28/13 at 14:08:18
 
As will spoke positively of them, I am running a quad of cryo'd JJ 6CA7 now (from cryoset.com). Very satisfying sound, there's a distinct difference from my non-cryo'd pair. There's an "ease" to the sound and the flow of sound, and a nice relaxed "feel" to the sound.
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Lon
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"Love without
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Re: JJ 6CA7s
Reply #68 - 03/05/13 at 18:09:34
 
More time on the cryo'd 6CA7 JJs has been good, these are very nice!

Also. . . on my Torii Mk II I put over a hundred miles on a pair of RCA 5YGGT that I got from ebay a bit ago and put them in the Torii Mk III yesterday in place of the Valve Audio 274B. Well, a drop in perceived power output but man the warmth is back, and the imaging and sound stage have resumed what I perceive as "normal" (at least using my reference recordings, which are of music bandmates and I made in my then garage apartment which I made on my four track Fostex). I don't why I never tried this tube type before in the Torii. Now I have that tube type in my two CSP2+, ZP3 and Torii Mk III. A very nice chain of sound!
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will
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Re: JJ 6CA7s
Reply #69 - 03/05/13 at 18:34:16
 
Sounds good Lon. I wonder if the reason you had not tried 5Y4GTs in the Torii was that the Decware write-ups tend to associate lower power with lower bass...

I have some very nice and warm 5Y4GTs that have a sweet and seductive sound, and like you experienced, with less notable power, but with a nice balance, and a particularly sweet textured sound. Finally for me though (at least so far) this is overruled by the lower power thing which also softens fast and deep dynamics some...something I really count on.

But as I think about how you have described your sound balance priorities, to play as well as possible across all recording qualities, the 5Y4 can definitely make some sense! As I imagine it, after the very solid focus of the Valve Art 274s, I can almost hear your sigh of relief with a nice 5Y4 in place.

Let us know how your impressions develop.

Will
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Lon
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"Love without
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Re: JJ 6CA7s
Reply #70 - 03/05/13 at 18:42:26
 
You're probably right about these matching my priorities of favoring as much music and as many sources as possible.

I get considerably less bass from the Valve Art 274Bs. . . . I think the reason I never tried these was my love for the many RCA 5U4G type that I have.

I'm not finding a noticeable diminution of dynamics between the two tube types. Maybe the CSP2+ is responsible? Anyway, that sigh was released and I continue to be pretty happy. The diminished power output is not an issue at the moment thanks to the CSP2+ gain, and I lost the digital video out on my previous DVR and got a new one from the cable company that is a different model. Sound isn't quite (yet?) as good but the output is "hotter" and as the DVR was the lowest output of all my sources, that helps.
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« Last Edit: 03/05/13 at 19:06:36 by Lon »  

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Pale Rider
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Re: JJ 6CA7s
Reply #71 - 03/05/13 at 20:04:28
 
I need to turn the subs off and listen to the 274Bs a little more precisely. As I posted in another thread, I found the Philips rectifiers I recently obtained from Upscale to be better than the Shuguang Preferred 274B, but not necessarily twice as good [2x price differential]. Put another way, the 274Bs were a decent bargain. Looking forward to the cryio'ed Valve Art currently en route. Sure like the look of the tubes. They look like they ought to produce bass, fat babies that they are.

I am not sure that overall, I have found anything to make me want to give up my NOS RCA stock. I have a bunch of these from 1940s-60s, and I have yet to have anything really beat them. Maybe a couple of old Mullards, but consistently, nothing.

Would be nice to have a current production source on the rectifiers that seemed up to the task. Had high hopes for the Winged C black plate, but in the end, it was only okay.
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will
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Re: JJ 6CA7s
Reply #72 - 03/05/13 at 20:41:22
 
I was disappointed in the 55 winged Cs I have. And I really have liked RCA (and other) 5U4GBs and STs. From initial impressions, those Upscale Phillips 5R4GYs are quite impressive in their warmth, texture, and tight and clear but also laid back presentation, but somehow, they lack some luster for me and seem a little restrained. They do have excellent mid bass clarity.

So far I have liked the cryo'd Valve Arts just fine, but I have been adjusting toward synergy with them. Need to plug in some old favs and see how they add up. When I first put the 274s in, I liked their open, "tubey" and unrestrained character, which I still appreciate, but I can see how they might be too forward for some systems and tastes. I do not get a notable diminution in bass with them here. A little maybe...but not a big enough deal to even take notice.
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Lon
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"Love without
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Re: JJ 6CA7s
Reply #73 - 03/06/13 at 03:34:24
 
I shouldn't have said "considerably less bass" above, meant to say "noticeably less bass," to be most accurate I hear it as less lower mid and a bit more upper bass. I don't have bass knobs or any adjustment there, so not sure how that would compensate, etc.

Enjoying the sound, especially with vinyl. A great, present naturalness at work in this complement.
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will
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Re: JJ 6CA7s
Reply #74 - 03/06/13 at 05:45:25
 
I did some rolling today with some old fav 5U4GB and STs. Definitely more deep bass presence, especially with GBs, and less mid/upper-mid lucidity..... I had changed to the Valve Art from the Phillips 5R4GYs and they have a bit more bass, but not as much as the 5U4s. Having gotten used to the 274s, and adjusting/rolling to their presentation, I am enjoying them overall.

The bass knobs, are weird. You will know what I mean once you get them...that is if you ever get them. They do more than just tighten or loosen the bass...they actually effect the whole shebang, but the effect is more obvious with the bass. And they don't in fact seem to increase or decrease it, but instead change its character. This can give the impression of more or less, but I think it is not.

Opening it up, the warmth and atmosphere increases along with the bass becoming fuller and less articulate. It is an odd and sometimes confounding adjustment because it is hard to really "get" the whole of it, and in my system/room, I am not altogether sure it is that great until it is tuned just right. Sometimes I think wide open or turned all the way down are best seemingly with less confusing effect finally, but I always end up somewhere in the first third to two thirds. Pretty cool when you find that sweet balance spot....I use it a lot and in concert with the treble...I think I would really miss the very fine-tuned possibilities if it stopped working.

On the other hand the simplification may be a blessing!

I will see when the Taboo makes its way here.
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