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NAUGHTY NEWS (Read 3736 times)
4krow
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NAUGHTY NEWS
09/04/11 at 00:33:42
 
I've been naughty. Couldn't help myself. Some things are just meant to be fiddled with. Besides, it will all end when my re-coned drivers arrive from Steve. So this has been an opportunity to experiment with someone else's design. Thats naughty. This time, I found a set of short horns hiding in the closet. Hmmm, what can I do with these? No, not in front of the speakers, thats too obvious.  Hey, they almost fit the diameter of the magnet in the tear. But why point them forward? Try them facing the wrong way first. Not so noticeable. Wait, what if I face them forward and push them all the way up behind the basket? Now, there is a difference. More bass for one. The wavefront is loaded, and coincidently, just below it is the slot for the resonator. Better mid bass, more filled out. But the lower bass, now thats the extra kick. I like it and will not change until the FRX drivers arrive. Then it's time to settle down with a speaker I love already.  Stay TUNED.
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Decware 34I.3 integrated amp/Forte' 3 bass amp/Velodyne SMS-1 bass mngmnt system/Decware ZOB speakers/BESL subs/Emotiva ERC3 CD player/BPT 3.0 power cond. PS Audio P500
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ski bum
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Re: NAUGHTY NEWS
Reply #1 - 09/04/11 at 16:54:35
 
How about a pic?  Are 'short horns' those wave-guide thingies?  You may be on to something with how it loads the bass chamber...seems to address the primary weakness (i.e. can't do robust, powerful bass) of the design.  Keep experimenting and let us know how it goes.
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4krow
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Re: NAUGHTY NEWS
Reply #2 - 09/05/11 at 00:49:56
 
This a shot of the unfinished cabinets with GIZ_GUTS temporarily wired in, and the short horn held in place(backwards) behind the driver. Excuse the dust and shoddy look. As I mentioned, these cabinets are not finished http://s1117.photobucket.com/albums/k585/4krow/?action=view&current=P9050001.jpg...
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opnly_bafld
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Re: NAUGHTY NEWS
Reply #3 - 09/05/11 at 01:59:45
 
I expect a variation of the information in the quote below accounts for the difference in bass:

"The response is not symmetric – the rear wave that wants to come around and cancel at bass frequencies is not as strong as the front wave, and its ability to cancel is diminished. This is the raison d'etre of the slot loaded open baffle – greater velocity out the front and less out the back."*

*taken from this article: http://www.enjoythemusic.com/diy/0911/slot_loaded_open_baffle_speaker.htm

Unfortunately it would seem that you are probably losing some of the benefits of an OB main driver by restricting the backwave.

Lin
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4krow
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Re: NAUGHTY NEWS
Reply #4 - 09/10/11 at 03:02:48
 
he heh so I waz thinkin'    'you know, these short horns are being held in place by dense foam rubber, but that means that they are vibrating because of the foam rubber'  Kept me up for awhile last night. But then a thought came to me. Don't use the foam rubber to support the short horns, use thumb screws instead. Yah so on down to True Value to buy the stuff. Ended up instead with knobs that have 1/2" long bolts sticking out of them. So then, drill the short horns in three places, thread the holes for the bolts to screw into, and have a short horn held in place by the bolts clamping around the magnet stucture. With me so far? you just tighten the knobs until you have made decent contact with the speaker magnet and a little tension....  I havent closed the gap between the magnet and the short horn yet. Listening each step of the way. Must say that there is a great improvement in sound stage, but not enough bass. If my FRX drivers don't come in soon, then I will be modifying the cabinet(in a temporary way) as to enclose the speaker from the back entirely. That will produce bass for sure(and a whole host of new problems). Well see
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Damien
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Re: NAUGHTY NEWS
Reply #5 - 09/11/11 at 18:19:26
 
http://s1117.photobucket.com/albums/k585/4krow/?action=view&current=P9050001.jpg...

Now I just KNOW you are trying to aggravate Mr Deckert
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4krow
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Re: NAUGHTY NEWS
Reply #6 - 09/11/11 at 18:56:42
 
openly baff, that is a great article. I am a little jealous of a guy who has made a living with his imagination and knowledge the way that Mr. Pass has. He has gone in several directions in audio successfully.

 Damien, I gotta do something with my free time(thats what my team of psychiatrists recommend)....   BTW way look at the stuff I am trying with the short horns on this forum. Probably idiotic to the more intelligent engineer.
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Damien
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Re: NAUGHTY NEWS
Reply #7 - 09/12/11 at 18:39:24
 
I saw the short horn pic. It definitely got my attention since I had been thinking along the same lines when Decware told me the Shielded DFR8 was no longer available. Have you tried that horn on there the other direction? Instead of directing the sound from the back of the cone right back through the cone you would be sending it out in 360˚ away from the cone. My first idea was only using a reflector on the bottom half of the speaker.  It occurred to me that speakers are magnetically shielded. This (in my very layman's opinion) wouldn't affect sound unless your speakers were near metal or magnetic fields. So the improvement between the shielded and non shielded might have come from the shape, surface and density of the shield itself. This lead me to a flat half shield idea and your short horns have made me think of a curved half shield.  

Check out the pic below. I linked it because it's so badly drawn I didn't want it on the Decware sight... {deep shame}

http://www.macmeisters.com/~damien/example.jpg
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« Last Edit: 09/12/11 at 18:42:49 by Damien »  

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4krow
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Re: NAUGHTY NEWS
Reply #8 - 09/12/11 at 21:30:37
 
Damien,

That is the kind of thought that started me on this route in the first place.  I did, as you suggest, try using the short horn facing away at first. The effect is more of a spreading of the sound. It definately leads to a wider sound as such. The bass did not benefit as much as I would like, so I figured that I had nothing to lose by turning the horn the opposite direction. I think when it is placed close to the cone, there may be a loading effect. I did think of adding heavy weather strip to the top half only and see what that has to offer. When I had the FRX drivers, none of this seemed to be neccesary. I have even considered enclosing the top half of the cabinet, making become a type of loaded box, but to do that may require some therapy. I mean what the HELL am I doing? in reality, just screwing around.
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Damien
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Re: NAUGHTY NEWS
Reply #9 - 09/13/11 at 01:58:36
 
Keep it up! That's the fun part. The law of averages is on our side.  I mean even the newest noob will slip and fall in a big pile of WIN sometime...
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4krow
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Re: NAUGHTY NEWS
Reply #10 - 09/13/11 at 02:47:45
 
Well, it sounds like i will have my work cut out for me anyway. I received an email from Steve saying that the replacement parts for the FRX will have a different sound character, predictably in the bass(not as much). Oh boy, more bass to tinker with. Good thing I have two subs.....
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4krow
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Re: NAUGHTY NEWS
Reply #11 - 09/13/11 at 20:39:20
 
Ready for baby step #4? Well baby, here it is:
Talked with Steve today about the 'new sound' of the FRX repaired drivers(no real audition yet, just talk), and we both think that there may be more than one way to go on this little experiment. Since it is quite possible that the repaired drivers will have less bass than the original driver,1) one could either mike the cabinet for a bass source to a sub amp, or 2) a second hole can be cut into the baffle to introduce a second driver acting as though the ZOB cabinet is ported box.(sound familiar, my good friends?)....
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Damien
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Re: NAUGHTY NEWS
Reply #12 - 09/13/11 at 22:06:14
 
My initial reaction is go with the mic in the box and not change the outward appearance of the ZOB. Because I expect the DFR8 to lack enough bass for me I have a spare sub with a bad amp that is just waiting in case I need it. I was thinking of buying a ZKIT single channel amp kit and soldering it together for this but the shopping cart won't recognize any ZKIT anymore... Hope they aren't discontinued. Plate amps are cheap though. My sub is a Klipsch and is a wireless sub the amp probably works but I have no way to send the signal to turn it on. Tried my universal remote... no go.  Need mics though and I know nothing about them.
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4krow
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Re: NAUGHTY NEWS
Reply #13 - 09/13/11 at 23:58:43
 
As you are hitting the button on your remote, somebody's bed in Germany is raising and lowering and folding in half,  so stop it.  Of course, I will probably ignore all reasonable advice and add a woofer somewhere in the ZOB cabinet(because I have one). I can take out the 10" peerless driver mounted in my sub....but first, lets see how the repaired FRX drivers sound first....now where did I put that router and saber saw?
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4krow
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Re: NAUGHTY NEWS
Reply #14 - 09/25/11 at 00:25:36
 
Here is a better photo of the latest rendition, complete with knobs, acorn nuts. http://s1117.photobucket.com/albums/k585/4krow/?action=view&current=P9250002.jpg...
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