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MUSIC SERVERS (Read 7076 times)
Donnie
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Re: MUSIC SERVERS
Reply #60 - 09/11/11 at 18:15:30
 
This  answered some of my questions.
It looks like I'm not getting the resolution that I thought out of my computer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu_2EBnM4sI&feature=player_embedded
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will
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Re: MUSIC SERVERS
Reply #61 - 09/11/11 at 18:32:50
 
Donnie,

If you are working from uncompressed, error corrected WAV files taken from normal CDs, they are natively 16bit/44.1K. If you can get your computer to output these files in an unadulterated way....at 16 bit and 44K with no internal sampling changes and no EQ etc.....(look at those system audio control panels and Properties for your software player.) This is the best you can get from your computer as is with CDs.

Then the ZDAC does its thing to upsample the files....not the same as starting with higher sample rates, but a decision Steve made to get the best sound he could from 16/44.1 files.
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Pale Rider
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Re: MUSIC SERVERS
Reply #62 - 09/11/11 at 18:40:08
 
Maybe. With the Bridge in the $700-800 range, I am not sure there is much need to reduce price by $300 with a lens-only add-in. I could be wrong, but it would seem a fragmentation of the value box. Still, I do believe that a standalone Lens would sell well.

Anyway, I am looking forward to the unit. My only, and very modest, gripe about it right now is that I have to pull some Cat5 cable for it.
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Lon
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Re: MUSIC SERVERS
Reply #63 - 09/11/11 at 19:14:54
 
I agree that it seems unlikely. But there's a possibility a stand-alone Lens is on the way in that right in the description of the DAC they write:

The PWD has three I2S inputs.  One can be used for the PerfectWave Transport (PWT), the second can be used for future products we build or for the addition of the upcoming PS Audio Digital Lens.  The third is accessed internally by the optional network Bridge.

I think it's a good idea for PS Audio because as you know the Lens is a very sought after previous product.  Eventually I think they'll surrender to the sales potential. I do think you're correct, makes no sense for them to just have Lens board while they sell the Bridge. But it would be nice if they did, and stranger things happen.

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Donnie
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Re: MUSIC SERVERS
Reply #64 - 09/11/11 at 19:56:15
 
Will, I have a bunch of flac. files with much higher sampling rates than 44.1.K But if my computer/ DAC combo doesn't  pass it through I've been wasting my money. I have one monstrous file (1.4GB) of SRV's "Soul To Soul" recorded at  192K that it loks like I am passing at best at 88K. Oh well I'm learning.....
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Pale Rider
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Re: MUSIC SERVERS
Reply #65 - 09/11/11 at 20:41:28
 
Lon wrote:
Quote:
I think it's a good idea for PS Audio because as you know the Lens is a very sought after previous product.  Eventually I think they'll surrender to the sales potential. I do think you're correct, makes no sense for them to just have Lens board while they sell the Bridge. But it would be nice if they did, and stranger things happen.

I think there is a possibility. I bet PSA could sell 10 times as many standalone Lenses as they will likely sell PWD+Bridge units. I have no idea how much traction the PW line is getting. $-for-$, I don't believe there is a better-reviewed combo around. That little blurb about the "upcoming PS Audio Digital Lens" has been hanging on their site for over a year now, maybe longer.  I would love to see them do it, in part because I selfishly believe that if they broaden the user base, it increases the likelihood we will see a longer lifecycle for these products through firmware upgrades.

Anyway, the PWD+Bridge should be on its way tomorrow. Jazzed to set it up.
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Lon
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Re: MUSIC SERVERS
Reply #66 - 09/11/11 at 21:00:08
 
Great, you should have it by next weekend. Don't forget to put on your white gloves (provided in the box). Smiley
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4krow
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Re: MUSIC SERVERS
Reply #67 - 09/11/11 at 22:23:13
 
Lon,  What have you done? He will never be the same.
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will
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Re: MUSIC SERVERS
Reply #68 - 09/11/11 at 23:43:57
 
Quote:
I have a bunch of flac. files with much higher sampling rates than 44.1.K But if my computer/ DAC combo doesn't  pass it through I've been wasting my money.


Donnie, Don't lose hope!

I am running all 44.1 and getting awesome sound, as are many others. Though there is definitely merit to high res files...more information, you can get kickass sound from 16/44.1. The dB Audio folks have some very interesting discoveries on this....

As I understand it, their testing method is several engineers doing double blind testing as they sort out parts and the best possible synergy. Looking for a neutral analog sound, Master tapes are referenced. After some time, one aspect of the study seemed to become not getting caught by "the current belief" and remaining open to whatever works even if it does not necessarily make sense with current thought. It was in this sort of exploration that they arrived at their DACs and how they came to using a tweaked out Mac as a file source, while discovered tweaks for the computer in the same way.

Anyway, in these many many many tests they arrived at NOS DACs....16/44.1 period...no async...no high res...no upsampling. While the Tranquility evolved, their findings were that there is much more smooth information on 16/44.1 than was generally thought. All kinds of pointers to fine information showed up, obvious inner detail, and very fine ambient information, but also in nuance of voices and instruments as they became more fleshed out...and without digital hardness, instead with an analog liquidity. The Tranquilities can play high res files but not at high res in the DAC. In the end DbAudioLabs (and many serious audio heads out there) found that the Tranquility sounded better to them than a lot of big name, very good hi res and async DACs, including Ayre, Wavelength, Wyred, PS Audio, Peachtree.....

Of course this is a taste thing, but there are some pretty heavy listeners out there using the Tranquility which makes no sense within the async/high res mindset.

They kept working on async too, and referencing some mainline popular players with async and high res, but still thought their NOS DAC sounded better so stuck with it.

Not to say that the Tranquility is the end all, just making the point that some serious designers and listeners believe these guys have made an amazing discovery....that there is a lot more to 16/44.1 than was thought. And so much so that even in the async/high res belief system of todays market, they they held to this very unpopular approach believing thier sound is better, and from the lowly 16/44.1K files.

The thing is, this is a similar process Steve used to create your ZDAC, mod and listen, mod and listen for forever. So if you are not getting amazing sound, I would say it is not the DAC.

I just did some testing and though I have been using the V-Link, I tried just my wireworld cable in the ZDAC on its own. It sounds awesome. The V-Link pulls more micro detail (also, according to the Mini audio out, with toslink out, the V-Link can go to 96K as opposed to the ZDAC USB 48K, and probably the same with your laptop) but just the ZDAC with a good cable fed by the tweaked Mini is beautiful. The DbAudioLabs Essential USB cable takes it to another level, but the Wireworld Startrlight sounds really good. And I have the same amp and speakers you have though I have modded my MGs, and use a tweaked out Mini playing with PureMusic.

Wink
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« Last Edit: 09/11/11 at 23:55:13 by will »  

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Lon
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Re: MUSIC SERVERS
Reply #69 - 09/12/11 at 00:15:47
 
4, He's already taken a few aspirin.  He'll be fine in the morning. Smiley
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« Last Edit: 09/12/11 at 00:16:44 by Lon »  

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Lon
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Re: MUSIC SERVERS
Reply #70 - 09/12/11 at 02:06:00
 
will wrote on 09/11/11 at 23:43:57:
Anyway, in these many many many tests they arrived at NOS DACs....16/44.1 period...no async...no high res...no upsampling. While the Tranquility evolved, their findings were that there is much more smooth information on 16/44.1 than was generally thought. All kinds of pointers to fine information showed up, obvious inner detail, and very fine ambient information, but also in nuance of voices and instruments as they became more fleshed out...and without digital hardness, instead with an analog liquidity. The Tranquilities can play high res files but not at high res in the DAC. In the end DbAudioLabs (and many serious audio heads out there) found that the Tranquility sounded better to them than a lot of big name, very good hi res and async DACs, including Ayre, Wavelength, Wyred, PS Audio, Peachtree.....




Yes will, my PS Audio PerfectWave DAC has the "native" function and also allows many oversampling settings and different filters and in almost every case the "native" format is the best sounding to me. This is true for Redbook, for 48kz video broadcast and discs, and the few higher resolution recordings I've been able to play via DVR in wav format. (There's an auto setting that uses what I find the best apodizing filter choices for the file formats and native form, so I use that 99 percent of the time).

I have faith Donnie that you'll find the settings to get your PC sound to be all it can be. Smiley
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« Last Edit: 09/12/11 at 02:07:41 by Lon »  

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will
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Re: MUSIC SERVERS
Reply #71 - 09/12/11 at 03:52:03
 
Yes the PerfectWave sounds like the best of many worlds! I find with my system, though PureMusic can do upsampling many like, and the Music Fidelity V-Link will take files or upsampling up to 96K, I always seem to like the native setting too. In my case this is 16/44.1 not having any compressed or HighRes files. But then the ZDAC does upsample everything electronically...I think that was a lot Steve's choice for the smoothest, most analog sound by his tastes though.

Its all good once we find the right combo of tools and synergy!

Smiley
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« Last Edit: 09/12/11 at 03:52:40 by will »  

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Lon
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Re: MUSIC SERVERS
Reply #72 - 09/12/11 at 12:00:32
 
Well, the PerfectWave is a versatile tool. And an expense!

I really haven't much in the way of hirez nor do I seek it out. But I really really enjoy having my Blu-Ray and DVR run through the whole system. There's some wonderful sound associated with that. Yesterday I was watching the NYPO doing An American in Paris on PBS and the sound was stellar!  It's hard to leave the house sometimes. . . Wink
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Pale Rider
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Re: MUSIC SERVERS
Reply #73 - 09/12/11 at 14:26:58
 
I still have a very nice NOS DAC called a Valab that caused quite a stir when it first came out. When I had my Promitheus DAC built, I stuck with the NOS approach. Like others, I found a smoothness and naturalness to a variety of NOS approaches that oversampling did not deliver. It proved to me, as I am sure the Tranquility does to others, that there are many ways to skin this digital-to-analog cat. However, for true high-resolution files, there isn't much choice except to have a DAC capable of converting those files at their native resolution.

FWIW, a "native mode" such as what might be incorporated in the Tranqulity, is not the same as the PWD's native mode, but only because the Tranqulity, and most NOS DACs are pegged at Redbook. In the Tranquility, as I understand the product info, it can play higher-resolution files, but it does so at Redbook resolution (while many NOS DACs cannot do that at all). This is a kind of downsampling, and there is nothing wrong with it, because as Will notes, there is plenty of information at Redbook that many thought wasn't there. But if that is going to be one's approach, not sure I would invest in the extra expense of hi-res files.
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will
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Re: MUSIC SERVERS
Reply #74 - 09/12/11 at 15:45:06
 
Quote:
In the Tranquility, as I understand the product info, it can play higher-resolution files, but it does so at Redbook resolution (while many NOS DACs cannot do that at all). This is a kind of downsampling, and there is nothing wrong with it, because as Will notes, there is plenty of information at Redbook that many thought wasn't there. But if that is going to be one's approach, not sure I would invest in the extra expense of hi-res files.


I think this is correct. Not sure where the downsampling happens, but by reports the HiRes files sound really good on the Tranquility. And buying HiRes for a NOS player is likely not the best idea.

Greg, Have you ever listened to your HiRes files at 44.1. Not that you would necessarily want to, but I wonder if they sound better than Redbook since they start with so much more data even if not played at their native res. The PerfectWave might be a great unit to try this....just for fun.
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« Last Edit: 09/12/11 at 15:46:14 by will »  

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