Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Decware Audio Forums
12/25/14 at 17:57:20


Pages: 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 8
Send Topic Print
ERRs Have Arrived! (Read 28571 times)
TimF
Verified Member
**




Posts: 11
Re: ERRs Have Arrived!
Reply #60 - 08/11/11 at 11:23:44
 
mac5u, I have kind of watched the radial speaker evolve over time, have kept a keen interest in Decware for quite awhile, just more of a "lurker" in the background over the years. Always kind of kept an eye on things though. This version-the ERR though just looks to be the one that has really peaked my interest though.

It has more of a cabinet volume maybe more closely resembling the Walsh 2, but overall height to my 3/3000's. The main radial driver is more closer to the 3/3000 though, and the ERR's ribbon tweeter makes it more interesting to me yet.

I have been playing with the Ohm's in a more "omni" mode lately, one of my pairs of MWT's is an omni configuration by John at Ohm, and it is very interesting, soundstaging and the like. I have a couple more things I am trying with the Ohm-especially the 3000 in a true omni can, but at some point, I do believe I will give the ERR a whirl. Would make for an interesting comparison.

I know this is the Decware forum, and I sure do not mean to drag Ohm into all this, but I find the comparisons too compelling and interesting. I hope you all will bare with me as I watch this forum for the ERR's.

Pale, glad they seem to be doing the business for you so far. Keep the comments coming! Enjoy the tunes!
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Pale Rider
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1272
Re: ERRs Have Arrived!
Reply #61 - 08/11/11 at 14:06:34
 
Tim, as a former Ohm owner myself, I enjoy the perspective you bring, and under the forum charter, it certainly seems appropos.
Back to top
 
 

Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
  IP Logged
TimF
Verified Member
**




Posts: 11
Re: ERRs Have Arrived!
Reply #62 - 08/12/11 at 11:26:22
 
Thanks Pale, may I ask what Ohm's you have had/listened to, and what differences-or even similarities that you hear with the ERR's from that of the Ohm? I know that might be a difficult thing to explain perhaps, just looking at anyone's input that have maybe had the chance to compare the two, or have any thoughts on the them.

I have had considerable time spent with my Ohm's, my 3/3000 uses the more conventional CLS driver/tweeter configuration, and a pair of the Micro-Walsh Talls in an omni configuration, tweeter firing towards the ceiling. The MWT was bought mainly for the intention of using it as surrounds in an "Ohm Theater" system, using my 3/3000's as front L/R and getting an Ohm center at some point. What I wasn't expecting was the interesting characteristics of just listening to the MWT/omni as the L/R in just 2-channel. Wasn't what I was expecting at all, and in  some ways more interesting and natural than the standard 3/3000 configuration, just less bass/midrange fullness due to cabinet/driver size, but very fun to listen to.

I do totally understand Steve's stance on the omni-directional upper frequencies and wanting to maintain a more typical directional firing arrangement. With the Ohm's, there are some trade-offs between the two arrangements, just not sure which I like best, find that I bounce between the two when listening to just 2-channel mode.

I had hoped to be able to possibly put my order in for a pair of ERR's so that I could do some side-by-side comparisons, but due to some medical/health issues that will be put off probably until early next year. I am hoping the ERR's stay in production for awhile, I sure do not want to miss out on giving them a good listen in my room with my own gear. We will see!

I am enjoying this forum, and the main thing that I see here is that folks are just having fun and enjoying their systems, and their music. And that is really what it is all about! Tim
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
ZYGI
Seasoned Member
****


HR-ONE

Posts: 645
Re: ERRs Have Arrived!
Reply #63 - 08/12/11 at 13:39:02
 
Tim,

 I see no problem comparing Ohms here either, there are probably a lot of people wanting to know the comparisons, so really its a good thing.  I've heard a lot of Ohms in the past. There was a company I used to buy all my speaker parts from in Phoenix, and they seemed to get a lot of Ohms in for repair. I have now idea of which models I was listening to at the time, it didn't really matter I guess, it was kind of the bar for what had to be better. Some Ohms do some things better than the ERR's but overall I think the ERR's as a whole do everything just right.

If you do come to Decfest, feel free to bring your Ohms with you, Doug that wrote his review on the ERR's had done this a couple of years before buying the ERR's. Not a problem at all, I hope you can make it!

I see no reason the ERR's will go anywhere, anytime soon. The radials/omni's have been a passion of mine for a long time.

PaleRider,

I do hope you make it out to Decfest this year, it would be great to meet you in person.

Mac5u,

In a way, I'm glad you memory might be a little thin on what you heard. Like Murphy's law goes. everything you listened to with the Torii-MKI was pretty bad. In fact this took me on a long spiral of trying to figure out WTF!  The tubes were on there last legs, with that said they didn't show itself in the normal way, it turned out to be very midrange heavy. Not sure why this happened or what it actually was but it had me running in circles for a month at least. Then when you listened to the desk top speakers (Trapeziums) at my desk, the amp was in mono, only playing the left channel through both speakers. I sat at the desk later that day, when I realized what you had just listened to, I was so embarrassed. Just perfect.

I remember Steve telling me of a time at his old shop, in the early days of the RL-series radials, he had a customer come by for a listen, and when the guy left, Steve realized that one of the Radial drivers weren't even playing. Just goes to show you it can happen to anyone, at any time. Usually at the worst possible time.

ZYGI
Back to top
 
 

All Decware amps and sources, Turning Point Audio speakers
  IP Logged
Pale Rider
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1272
Re: ERRs Have Arrived!
Reply #64 - 08/12/11 at 15:36:42
 
Tim, long time ago, I had a pair of Fs. Liked them very much, and often longed for their broad sweet spot when I was later building tall ribbon systems.

Hope your medical/health issues work out the best possible way. We've discovered a fair bit of that in common with several of us here. Good luck.

Bob, I really hope I can make it to DecFest. Not only would it be fun to see all the goings-on at the mother ship, but it would be great to meet everyone in person.
Back to top
 
 

Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
  IP Logged
TimF
Verified Member
**




Posts: 11
Re: ERRs Have Arrived!
Reply #65 - 08/12/11 at 15:45:27
 
Ohm F's, very nice I am sure! I have never heard the F's unfortunately, and maybe it is a good thing! What I hear from folks that have, say the newer Ohm CLS drivers don't hold a candle to the F's when they are working properly. Maybe so, but I do feel the newer drivers are a more commercialized and rugged driver than the real Walsh driver. Shame Lincoln Walsh wasn't around to hear his design with the F and maybe even develop it further.

I have become very pleased with the omni/radial sound for sure, and even though I love the pair of Magnepan MMG's I have, I don't think I could part ways with any of the radial designs. They just seem to sound more natural and real to my ears, and a lot less picky about placement and listening position. More real-world speakers to me! Tim
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Pale Rider
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1272
Re: ERRs Have Arrived!
Reply #66 - 08/12/11 at 16:40:50
 
I enjoyed the heck out of my old Maggies. I ended up selling them to a neighbor long ago. Maggies and Quads hooked me on the broad planar category.

The Fs were special, but there was a constant tinkering with the speaker to "get it right." it's been too long for any valid comparison, but the unique design of the ERR sounds more natural to me, keeping the benefits of the radial approach, and resolving some of the shortcomings of the Ohm. I still think the Ohm was better than almost anything else I heard at the time, but I do think it had problems with its upper mids and highs in terms of accuracy and detail, and smearing of the otherwise excellent soundstage. Of course, that was a long time ago, and for that speaker to be as good as it was, was quite impressive.

Of course, here and now, having invested in the ERRs, I am "motivated" to like them as much as my ears permit. And I like them a lot.
Back to top
 
 

Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
  IP Logged
TimF
Verified Member
**




Posts: 11
Re: ERRs Have Arrived!
Reply #67 - 08/12/11 at 17:15:57
 
Someday I hope to hear a properly restored pair of F's. One of my friends in Virginia has a pair, so maybe some day. I do think that for the day in which they were designed and made, it is somewhat a miracle they worked and worked as well as they did.

I do think the newer Ohm's are very good though, and not to take anything away from what John S. at Ohm does do with what he has now. They do that thing for me, but am always looking or listening for other designs. I don't make changes to my system often, very rare, but the ERR's might have to be an exception at some point.

I can imagine with the ERR's, there wouldn't be much to not like. But  do think radials/omni's certainly aren't everyone's cup of tea for sure, but they seem to be for me!
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Pale Rider
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1272
Re: ERRs Have Arrived!
Reply #68 - 08/12/11 at 21:59:18
 
Tim, I agree that the Walsh driver was a remarkable achievement. I wouldn't mind hearing a well-restored set of Fs myself. And I think you are right that the radial sound is in many respects a matter of personal taste. Electrostats can be that way, too. I am really very pleased with the ERRs; zero second thoughts. I expect this weekend to get the center channel set up, now that the ZRACKS and SE84ZS are here. Should be interesting.
Back to top
 
 

Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
  IP Logged
Juan Antonio
Senior Member
***




Posts: 77
Re: ERRs Have Arrived!
Reply #69 - 08/13/11 at 12:01:13
 
Lon,

Very interesting your anecdotes and great experiences. I enjoyed reading it. So far you are an entertaining guy Wink

"Juan, your English is excellent!"

He,he, I try to do my best. Sometimes is a compromise between time spent vs perfected typing and I've to choose in a balance way.

"In regards to the live recordings:  I don't have any room treatment so that may be a reason why I don't feel that live recordings are particularly compromised."

No, Lon, just the opposite. As an example, live records sound specially good on headphones. I encourage you to have at least a pair, for instance, the Hifiman HE6 hooked up to the Torri Mk3's binding posts (cos these headphones require speaker amps to bring the best out of them). Or an AKG K1000 earspeakers.

Apart from that, I noticed you purchased a PS combo recently. I have been interested in the PSA DAC + bridge as a music server while ago as well. It's a future acquisition for sure for my part. Very few companies sell something like these type of sources (Linn, Naim for instance). Control your entire music library with an iPhone or iPod touch is very rewarding and convenient. No external digital connections to deal with jitter and expensive cables. Just an NAS storage with lossless, perfectly ripped CD's and HD files. Inverted phase, native mode (non oversampling), etc.. So great.

Greg,

The AKG K1000 are here. They are simply a must have. Physical impact very similar to speakers, very dynamic and musical, amazing soundstage very similar like very near field monitors, ... I like them so much.   Grin
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 08/13/11 at 14:14:03 by Juan Antonio »  
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7923
Re: ERRs Have Arrived!
Reply #70 - 08/13/11 at 13:14:31
 
Juan, thanks. I've been blessed with an interesting life, with sharp highs and deep lows, and I think I've learned from my experiences.

I do have headphones. I spent about three years playing in and recording bands and I just tired completely of headphones. I have a pair around, but I don't use them, the headphone experience is not how I want to experience music.

The PS Audio Combo is working very well for me (I don't have The Bridge, I'm not at this time interested in computer audio, don't own an iPhone or iPad, etc--I'm moving away from computer devices actually.) But the jitter free performance from discs is intoxicatingly good.
Back to top
 
 

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
  IP Logged
Pale Rider
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1272
Re: ERRs Have Arrived!
Reply #71 - 08/13/11 at 18:20:48
 
Lon's comments about headphones are interesting. If I had to "work" in them, I suspect they could become quite tiring. And now that I have my ERRs, I am obviously not listening to headphones all the time. But headphone are what got me back into hi-fi, and while the enclosed headphone experience is, in its own way, unnatural, it can be very rewarding. Case in point: binaural recordings. When I had my first pair of Sennheiser HD414 headphones as a kid, I also had a binaural album Sennheiser had produced to show off the (at the time somewhat unusual) open air design of the headphones. And it was impressive.

Today, there are some very good binaural recordings out there that can only sound good on good headphones. Here is one a friend recommended to me just this week, and it is indeed impressive: Ottmar Liebert's Up Close.

I am also a confirmed computer audio guy. And as a PS Audio fan, I am very tempted by the Perfect Wave combo Lon has (hey Lon, I know you know it's really a computer, too Wink ), but it's still both more and less than what I want. I am not seeking the perfect disc player, because I do believe discs are a dead-end.  As physical media, discs will fall, as all things can, but so can any storage mechanism. Still, as digital resolution and fidelity improve, and vendors find more immersive ways to enjoy album art and liner notes (holographically projected album art, anyone? No?), and as bandwidth delivery systems continue to widen, environmental and financial pressures will drive to non-physical delivery of audio and video. (The Sonore is getting closer to what I am thinking about as the next step up from the mini and external RAID that now houses most of my music. But it's not quite there yet, and it's really a bridge between old and new; one day, Cortez will burn all the ships.)

I love the Blu-Ray experience, and the Oppo is both a very fine video and audio device. But it's a disc-based delivery, and in the end, what counts is what is on the screen and coming out of the speakers, not the disc itself. Any data file delivery of sufficient fidelity will do the trick. Apple is already heading down the path of disc-less delivery. They accomplished their most recent system upgrade without discs, their top selling laptop has no optical drive, and neither does their new mini. Hard drive makers are getting killed by the combo of flash and SSD. We've gone from revolutionary floppy drives to disc-less environments in about 30 years. With 32/384 A/V files on the horizon, optical discs are all but dead. We know something even better than Blu-Ray will be developed, but I am betting that something won't be a disc. And it won't take another thirty years.

I know a lot of my audiophile friends revel in the vinyl experience, including the tactile and audio-visual relationship between disc and album art, etc. I don't begrudge them that at all, but I don't actually miss all my LP albums. I enjoy album art, but my iPad is fine for those purposes. And I suspect the vinyl vector will remain with us for some time. But it will eventually join wax cylinders. I believe vinyl has survived in part because it has taken relatively long for digital to reach mere adequacy, with many false promises and detours along the way. But digital is still younger than vinyl already was when I was born. Analog technology development simply cannot keep pace with Moore's Law and all the benefits that theorem implies. What the Sonore or Auraliti do for reasonable prices now, will be bettered by devices costing half as much in three years. And of course, there will be just as much, if not more, junk than ever. But the cream of the crop will continue to be amazing.

Someone here, or maybe on the Hoffman forum, commented on just how far we have yet to go in reproducing live music in our homes. So true. What we settle for now is a facsimile experience. Even small-scale stuff, like solo vocals or small group chamber music, is still radically different live than recorded and heard at home. We are getting closer all the time, but we have far to go. Long term, only one storage paradigm can hold the amount of information necessary to replicate or approximate live music. And it's not analog. The vinyl groove cannot be made infinitely long, nor can the cartridge needle be infinitely small. Whether it is the reproduction end or the recording end of the process, we will always be testing the limits of a physical, "meat" universe.

Recorded music is much like mapping. The only perfect analog map is a full-size replication of the terrain being mapped. However, digitally, we can store and recreate the actual terrain down to the most minute detail (already happening courtesy of the redoubtable, perhaps evil, Google Street View)—subject now only to storage space and the resolving power of the recording instrument and the viewing device. My iPad doesn't feel the same as a nice map, but it is way more accurate, with a nearly infinite capacity for improvement. Sounds familiar.

P.S. Sorry for the rant. Back to my valves.
Back to top
 
 

Decware: Ultra | Torii MKIII [2] | SE84ZS | Taboo MkIII Sources: Synology 1812+ | Baetis Revolution | PWD DAC MKII | Lumin Network Player | Mytek 192 | Oppo 105 DSP: DEQX Mate | Emotiva Outputs: ERR [6] + Servo Subs | LCD-2 & other cans
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7923
Re: ERRs Have Arrived!
Reply #72 - 08/13/11 at 18:33:54
 
Yeah, the PerfectWave combo could be considered a computer. But it allows me to use my discs. (And they sound as they never have before on a CDP or with a computer to DAC set up in my home. And I can control volume and source switching with its remote, which I could not do before)  I have so many discs, it doesn't bother me to use discs, I prefer to continue using discs. I don't like using my iPod and I refuse to own a smart phone. And with the PerfectWave duo I don't have to connect up to the internet. More and more I think centering your life around the internet is a mistake. The internet has been a part of ruining our economy, shifting the way business is done, it's cost a lot of jobs.

I had one external drive, lasted me six months and failed. Used it when I was living in both Austin and Houston because of my late wife's illness. Music off the computer was neither more convenient nor sounded better to me. So I'm not going there for the heart of my system nor do I have to. Cds and DVDs and Blu-Rays will last me the rest of my life.

I've read good things about The Bridge that is available with the the PerfectWave DAC. Might be a good thing to look into as opposed to the Sonos.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 08/13/11 at 18:38:36 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
  IP Logged
mac5u
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 100
Re: ERRs Have Arrived!
Reply #73 - 08/13/11 at 19:39:16
 
Quote:
I expect this weekend to get the center channel set up, now that the ZRACKS and SE84ZS are here.


Greg, this is going to be an interesting ride you take us on, Greg.  Like Tim, it will be interesting to hear your thoughts on the ERRs and OHMs although it is quite unfair to anyone or any piece of equipment to rely on audio memory.  Still, looking forward to how this all comes together, especially with the center channel speakers inserted into the mix.

Quote:
In a way, I'm glad you memory might be a little thin on what you heard. Like Murphy's law goes. everything you listened to with the Torii-MKI was pretty bad.


ZYGI, you know, even though your equipment wasn't working as it should have been the day that I was there, it still sounded pretty good to me.  OK, I wasn't completely blown away but after leaving your place, I figured it was just the first time hearing the older Torii and it was my first experience with the both the ERRs and the Turning Point speakers so I figured I would just need to hear them again and temper my expectations.  That afternoon by no means dissuaded me from looking further into them.

What struck me then, and still to this day, is how you could take a room of modest size and make it into a very comfortable listening room with very good acoustics.  Your room treatments probably took what you considered a sub-par listening experience and made for me a very enjoyable one.  I can only imagine how the music must sound now!

Quote:
Still, as digital resolution and fidelity improve, and vendors find more immersive ways to enjoy album art and liner notes (holographically projected album art, anyone? No?), and as bandwidth delivery systems continue to widen, environmental and financial pressures will drive to non-physical delivery of audio and video.


Greg,  I am with you that music and movies delivered via disc will, in the not-to-distant future, be [almost] a thing of the past.  There will always be those who are comfortable with disc players but I think it will be more difficult to find that content delivered that way.  I still have a Super-VHS camcorder that works just fine, but finding tapes for it is difficult and digital camcorders make it virtually obsolete.

However, like Lon, I am not eager to embrace the world of computer audio.  I know I should just get over it and get on with it but the thought of doing so is a little discouraging.  The middle ground for me might be something like the Olive products, although going that route has its own limitations and, at the end of the day, it is not [yet] a priority for me.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 08/13/11 at 19:49:06 by mac5u »  
  IP Logged
mac5u
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 100
Re: ERRs Have Arrived!
Reply #74 - 08/13/11 at 20:00:03
 
Oh, yeah, one other thing PR, not that you don't have enough to do with getting everything set in place, hooked up, and dialed in, but you of course understand that there is a morally, ethic'ly, spiritually, physically, positively, absolutely, undeniably and reliably obligation to give us a new set of.....

PICS!
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 08/13/11 at 20:19:46 by mac5u »  
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 8
Send Topic Print